Belya v. Kapral ( 2022 )


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  • 21-1498
    Belya v. Kapral, et al.
    UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
    FOR THE SECOND CIRCUIT
    August Term 2021
    (Argued: March 7, 2022           Decided: August 17, 2022)
    Docket No. 21-1498
    ALEXANDER BELYA,
    Plaintiff-Appellee,
    v.
    HILARION KAPRAL, AKA METROPOLITAN HILARION, NICHOLAS OLKHOVSKIY,
    VICTOR POTAPOV, SERGE LUKIANOV, DAVID STRAUT, ALEXANDRE ANTCHOUTINE,
    GEORGE TEMIDIS, SERAFIM GAN, BORIS DMITRIEFF, EASTERN AMERICAN DIOCESE OF
    THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH OUTSIDE OF RUSSIA, THE SYNOD OF BISHOPS OF
    THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH OUTSIDE OF RUSSIA, MARK MANCUSO,
    Defendants-Appellants.
    ON APPEAL FROM THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
    FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
    Before:     CHIN, LOHIER, AND ROBINSON, Circuit Judges.
    
    The Clerk of Court is directed to amend the caption as set forth above.
    Appeal from orders of the United States District Court for the
    Southern District of New York (Marrero, J.) denying motions of defendants-
    appellants church officials and organizations to dismiss plaintiff-appellee's
    defamation claims, for reconsideration of that ruling, and to bifurcate discovery
    or otherwise stay proceedings. Defendants-appellants argue that the church
    autonomy doctrine bars the defamation claims and seek to appeal the
    interlocutory orders on the basis of the collateral order doctrine. We conclude
    that we lack appellate jurisdiction over the orders.
    DISMISSED. STAY VACATED.
    DIANA VERM THOMSON (Daniel H. Blomberg, Lori H.
    Windham, Daniel D. Benson, on the brief), The
    Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, Washington,
    DC, and Donald J. Feerick, Jr., Feerick Nugent
    MacCartney, PLLC, South Nyack, NY, for
    Defendants-Appellants.
    BRADLEY GIRARD (Richard B. Katskee, on the brief),
    Americans United for Separation of Church and
    State, Washington, DC, and Oleg Rivkin, Rivkin
    Law Group PLLC, New York, NY, for Plaintiff-
    Appellee.
    Thomas G. Hungar, Andrew G.I. Kilberg, John Matthew
    Butler, Jason Manion, Macey L. Olave, Gibson,
    Dunn & Crutcher LLP, Washington, DC, and San
    Francisco, CA, for Amici Curiae Professor Michael
    W. McConnell and Professor Douglas Laycock.
    2
    Gordon D. Todd, Daniel J. Hay, John L. Gibbons, Sidley
    Austin LLP, Washington, DC, for Amici Curiae The
    Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York, Assemblies
    of God (USA), Jurisdiction of the Armed Forces and
    Chaplaincy of the Anglican Church in North America,
    General Conference of Seventh-Day Adventists, The
    Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, and The
    International Society for Krishna Consciousness, in
    support of Defendants-Appellants.
    Ryan Paulsen, Ryan N. Gardner, Haynes and Boone,
    LLP, Dallas, TX, for Amicus Curiae Jewish Coalition
    for Religious Liberty, in support of Defendants-
    Appellants.
    Matthew T. Nelson, Warner Norcross + Judd LLP,
    Grand Rapids, MI, for Amici Curiae Constitutional
    Law Scholars, in support of Defendants-Appellants.
    James A. Campbell, Solicitor General of Nebraska;
    Douglas J. Peterson, Attorney General of
    Nebraska; David T. Bydalek, Chief Deputy
    Attorney General of Nebraska; Steve Marshall,
    Attorney General of Alabama; Mark Brnovich,
    Attorney General of Arizona; Leslie Rutledge,
    Attorney General of Arkansas; Chris Carr,
    Attorney General of Georgia; Derek Schmidt,
    Attorney General of Kansas; Daniel Cameron,
    Attorney General of Kentucky; Jeff Landry,
    Attorney General of Louisiana; Lynn Fitch,
    Attorney General of Mississippi; Eric S. Schmitt,
    Attorney General of Missouri; Austin Knudsen,
    Attorney General of Montana; John M. O'Connor,
    Attorney General of Oklahoma; Alan Wilson,
    Attorney General of South Carolina; and Sean D.
    3
    Reyes, Attorney General of Utah, for Amici Curiae
    States of Nebraska, Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas,
    Georgia, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi,
    Missouri, Montana, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and
    Utah, in support of Defendants-Appellants.
    CHIN, Circuit Judge:
    In this case, plaintiff-appellee Alexander Belya sued defendants-
    appellants -- individuals and entities affiliated with the Russian Orthodox
    Church Outside Russia ("ROCOR" and, collectively, "Defendants") -- for
    defamation, contending that they defamed him when they publicly accused him
    of forging a series of letters relating to his appointment as the Bishop of Miami.
    Defendants moved to dismiss based on the "church autonomy
    doctrine," arguing that Belya's suit would impermissibly involve the courts in
    matters of faith, doctrine, and internal church government. The district court
    denied the motion. Defendants then filed a motion for reconsideration and a
    motion to limit discovery to the issue of whether the church autonomy doctrine
    applied or otherwise to stay proceedings. The district court denied those
    motions as well. Defendants appeal from the three interlocutory rulings.
    Appellate jurisdiction typically requires either a final judgment,
    
    28 U.S.C. § 1291
    , or a certified interlocutory appeal, 
    28 U.S.C. § 1292
    (b). The
    4
    district court denied Defendants' motions without entering a final judgment (the
    case is pending in the district court, although proceedings have been stayed) and
    declined to certify an interlocutory appeal. Defendants argue that we have
    appellate jurisdiction based on the collateral order doctrine, which allows for
    appellate review of an interlocutory order if the ruling (1) is conclusive;
    (2) resolves important questions separate from the merits; and (3) is effectively
    unreviewable on appeal after a final judgment is entered.
    We hold that the collateral order doctrine does not apply in the
    circumstances here. We therefore dismiss this appeal.
    BACKGROUND
    A.    The Facts
    This case hinges on public accusations that Belya forged certain
    documents relating to his role within ROCOR. The facts as alleged in Belya's
    amended complaint (the "Complaint") are assumed to be true for purposes of this
    appeal.
    1.     Belya's Apparent Election as Bishop
    Belya served as a ROCOR priest in the Czech Republic and Slovakia
    before moving to the United States eleven years ago. He served in the United
    5
    States as a ROCOR priest until September 14, 2019, when he was suspended
    pending an investigation into the matters discussed below.
    As set forth in the Complaint, Belya was elected by the Synod of
    Bishops of ROCOR (the "Synod") -- the executive arm of ROCOR -- to the
    position of Bishop of Miami. The election was held from December 6 through 10,
    2018.
    Defendant-appellant Hilarion Kapral, also known as Metropolitan
    Hilarion, was the "ruling bishop and First Hierarch" of ROCOR. Defs.-
    Appellants' Br. at 5.1 Metropolitan Hilarion apparently wrote a letter dated
    December 10, 2018 (the "December 10 letter") to Patriarch Kirill, the Patriarch of
    Moscow and All Russia, which stated:
    I am happy to share the joyful news – by a majority vote
    two Vicar Bishops have been elected to the diocese
    entrusted to me. They are most worthy candidates.
    ....
    [Candidates include] Archimandrite Alexander
    (Belya) . . . elected as the Bishop of Miami.
    1
    "Metropolitan" is a title within ROCOR. According to ROCOR, Metropolitan
    Hilarion passed away on May 16, 2022. See Press Release, The Russian Orthodox
    Church Outside of Russia, His Eminence Metropolitan Hilarion of Eastern America and
    New York, First Hierarch of the Russian Church Abroad, Reposes in the Lord (May 16,
    2022), https://www.synod.com/synod/eng2022/ 20220516_print_enmhrepose.html.
    6
    Joint App'x at 92. According to the Complaint, the December 10 letter was
    signed by Metropolitan Hilarion and stamped with his official seal.
    That same day, Metropolitan Hilarion also sent a letter to Belya,
    explaining that there were certain corrections that Belya needed to make to his
    practices. The Synod designated Archbishop Gavriil to report on Belya's
    implementation of these corrections. In early January 2019 (the "early January
    letter"), Archbishop Gavriil wrote to Metropolitan Hilarion, stating that:
    I do not see any obstacles to approv[ing] the date of
    consecration of [Belya], elected as the Vicar Bishop for
    Miami, of which I hereby inform Your Eminence.
    
    Id. at 93
    . Soon thereafter, on January 11, 2019 (the "January 11 letter"),
    Metropolitan Hilarion wrote again to Patriarch Kirill, stating as follows:
    I hereby ask Your Holiness to approve [Belya's]
    candidacy at the next meeting of the Holy Synod of the
    Russian Orthodox Church.
    
    Id. at 94
    . Like the December 10 letter, the January 11 letter apparently was signed
    by Metropolitan Hilarion and stamped with his official seal.
    On July 16, 2019, Belya had an audience with Patriarch Kirill. Six
    weeks later, on August 30, 2019, the Moscow Patriarchate's official website
    posted the decision to approve Belya's appointment. On that same day,
    Metropolitan Hilarion congratulated Belya via phone call.
    7
    2.     The Allegations of Forgery and Fraud
    Four days later, on September 3, 2019, several ROCOR clergy
    members2 wrote a letter about Belya to the Synod and Metropolitan Hilarion (the
    "September 3 letter"). The September 3 letter was disseminated to all thirteen
    members of the Synod and forwarded to other members of ROCOR, including
    parishes, churches, monasteries, and other institutions, as well as online media
    outlets. It raised concerns about purportedly irregular aspects of Belya's
    "confirmation by [ROCOR] . . . as Bishop of Miami." 
    Id. at 95
    . The alleged
    irregularities related to the December 10, early January, and January 11 letters.
    First, the September 3 letter asserted that even though the December
    10 and January 11 letters appeared to have been signed and stamped with his
    seal, Metropolitan Hilarion "knew nothing about the written [letters] directed to
    Moscow." 
    Id.
     (emphasis omitted). The September 3 letter further alleged that "as
    stated by His Eminence [Metropolitan Hilarion]," the letters "were drawn up in
    an irregular manner." 
    Id.
     (emphasis omitted). It mentioned the absence of an
    "appropriate citation" from the Synod's decision and the lack of a biography of
    2
    All signees of the letter are defendants-appellants in this case. The signees were
    Nicholas Olkhovskiy, Victor Potapov, Serge Lukianov, David Straut, Alexandre
    Antchoutine, George Temidis, and Mark Mancuso. Defendant-appellant Boris
    Dmitrieff also participated in drafting the letter.
    8
    those elected. 
    Id. at 95-96
    . Second, the September 3 letter stated that the early
    January letter "raises doubts as well," specifically because the early January letter
    was not printed on Archbishop Gavriil's "official letterhead." 
    Id. at 96
     (emphasis
    omitted).
    The September 3 letter requested that, considering the allegations,
    Belya be suspended from clerical functions and barred from election candidacy.
    That same day, Metropolitan Hilarion issued an order to Belya suspending him
    from his position and responsibilities. Soon after, on September 16, 2019,
    Metropolitan Hilarion issued a public decree suspending Belya pending a formal
    investigation recommended in the September 3 letter. The decree also prohibited
    members of Belya's parish from communicating with him.
    On September 16, 2019, a clergy member3 posted about the dispute
    over Belya's confirmation on the social media site of his church. The post read:
    Alleged ROCOR episcopal nominee Fr. Alexander
    Belya, already confirmed by the ROC Synod, had not
    been elected by the ROCOR Synod and a letter
    informing about [sic] his nomination sent to Moscow
    was a forgery. The priest in question was suspended,
    internal investigation was started.
    3
    The clergy member, Serafim Gan, is also a defendant-appellant in this case.
    9
    
    Id. at 98
    . Various religious news outlets and publications also publicly circulated
    news of the controversy. Orthodox News, for example, reposted the statement.
    Helleniscope, another Orthodox Christian publication, wrote:
    This past summer, [Belya] also forged a letter from His
    Eminence Metropolitan Hilarion (Kapral), the First
    Hierarch of ROCOR, attempting to get himself
    confirmed by the Holy Synod of the Moscow
    Patriarchate as a bishop-elect for ROCOR in America.
    
    Id.
    Following the controversy, Belya left ROCOR and now serves as a
    priest of the Greek Orthodox Church.
    B.    The Proceedings Below
    On August 18, 2020, Belya commenced this lawsuit against
    Defendants, alleging claims for defamation, defamation per se, and defamation
    by innuendo. On December 8, 2020, Defendants filed a letter brief seeking
    permission to file a motion to dismiss for lack of jurisdiction, as well as for failure
    to state a claim, and requesting a conference. The district court denied
    Defendants' request for a conference but construed Defendants' letter brief as a
    motion to dismiss. It directed Belya to respond with a letter brief and proposed
    amended complaint. Belya did so on January 14, 2021.
    10
    On May 19, 2021, the district court denied Defendants' motion to
    dismiss and ordered Belya to file the amended complaint. The district court
    found jurisdiction because it concluded that the church autonomy principles
    cited by Defendants did not bar application of neutral principles of law, and
    Belya's case could be resolved by such neutral principles.
    On May 20, 2021, Belya filed the Amended Complaint. On June 16,
    2021, Defendants filed a Rule 59(e) motion for reconsideration. On June 25, 2021,
    Defendants moved for certification under 
    28 U.S.C. § 1292
    (b) for interlocutory
    appeal of the district court's order denying their motion to dismiss. The district
    court denied both motions on July 6, 2021. First, the district court denied the
    motion for reconsideration as untimely under Local Rule 6.3. Second, it denied
    the motion for interlocutory certification because Defendants' arguments
    amounted to "disputes as to whether the factual situation presented fits into the
    [church autonomy doctrine]" rather than a question suitable for interlocutory
    appeal. Belya v. Kapral, No. 20-CV-6597, 
    2021 WL 2809604
    , at *2 (S.D.N.Y. July 6,
    2021).
    On July 21, 2021, Defendants filed a motion to limit initial discovery
    to whether the church autonomy doctrine applied in this case or, in the
    11
    alternative, to stay proceedings. The district court denied that motion on July 27,
    2021.
    This appeal followed. Defendants appeal three of the district court's
    orders: the May 19, 2021, denial of their motion to dismiss; the July 6, 2021,
    denial of their motion for reconsideration; and the July 27, 2021, denial of their
    motion to limit discovery or stay proceedings. Also pending is a July 15, 2021,
    motion by Belya in this Court to dismiss this appeal. On September 2, 2021, we
    granted a temporary stay of the district court proceedings. The parties have
    briefed both the motion to dismiss and the merits.
    DISCUSSION
    The threshold issue is whether we have appellate jurisdiction,
    pursuant to the collateral order doctrine, over the district court's three
    interlocutory orders denying Defendants' motions to dismiss, for
    reconsideration, and to bifurcate discovery or otherwise stay proceedings. We
    hold that we do not. Accordingly, we dismiss the appeal and do not reach the
    merits.
    12
    A.    Applicable Law
    Two doctrines are at issue in this case: the collateral order doctrine
    and the church autonomy doctrine. 4
    1.     The Collateral Order Doctrine
    Appellate jurisdiction typically arises either from a district court's
    final judgment, 
    28 U.S.C. § 1291
    , or the district court's certification of an issue for
    interlocutory appeal, 
    28 U.S.C. § 1292
    (b). A "narrow and selective" class of
    orders, however, are appealable because they meet the requirements of the
    collateral order doctrine. Will v. Hallock, 
    546 U.S. 345
    , 350 (2006). The collateral
    order doctrine is a "practical rather than a technical construction" of § 1291.
    Cohen v. Beneficial Indus. Loan Corp., 
    337 U.S. 541
    , 546 (1949). It provides for:
    [A]ppellate jurisdiction over a small class of "collateral"
    rulings that do not terminate the litigation in the court
    below but are nonetheless sufficiently "final" and
    distinct from the merits to be appealable without
    waiting for a final judgment to be entered.
    4
    We use the term "church autonomy doctrine" to refer generally to the First
    Amendment's prohibition of civil court interference in religious disputes. Defendants
    also use the term "church autonomy doctrine," while Belya uses the term "ecclesiastical
    abstention" to refer to the same concept. Both parties also refer to the "ministerial
    exception." The ministerial exception, however, is one component of church autonomy.
    See Our Lady of Guadalupe Sch. v. Morrissey-Berru, 
    140 S. Ct. 2049
    , 2060 (2020) ("[A]
    component of this [church] autonomy is the selection of individuals who play certain
    key roles. The 'ministerial exception' was based on this insight.").
    13
    Liberty Synergistics Inc. v. Microflo Ltd., 
    718 F.3d 138
    , 146 (2d Cir. 2013) (quoting
    Cohen, 
    337 U.S. at 546
    ).
    The collateral order doctrine is limited to rulings that (1) are
    "conclusive"; (2) "resolve important questions separate from the merits"; and
    (3) "are effectively unreviewable on appeal from the final judgment in the
    underlying action." Swint v. Chambers Cnty. Comm'n, 
    514 U.S. 35
    , 42 (1995).
    These conditions are "stringent," as the narrow collateral appeal exception
    "should stay that way and never be allowed to swallow the general rule that a
    party is entitled to a single appeal" after "final judgment has been entered." Digit.
    Equip. Corp. v. Desktop Direct, Inc., 
    511 U.S. 863
    , 868 (1994) (citation omitted). In
    fact, the Supreme Court has admonished that "the class of collaterally appealable
    orders must remain 'narrow and selective in its membership.'" Mohawk Indus.,
    Inc. v. Carpenter, 
    558 U.S. 100
    , 113 (2009) (quoting Will, 
    546 U.S. at 350
    ).5 In recent
    5
    The Supreme Court has rarely extended the collateral order doctrine to cover
    new categories; the categories of orders falling under the collateral order doctrine
    require only two hands to count. Such orders imposed an attachment of a vessel in
    admiralty, Swift & Co. Packers v. Compania Colombiana Del Caribe, S.A., 
    339 U.S. 684
    (1950); imposed notice costs in a class action, Eisen v. Carlisle & Jacquelin, 
    417 U.S. 156
    (1974); would have led to retrial, thus implicating double jeopardy, Abney v. United
    States, 
    431 U.S. 651
     (1977); would have allowed a case implicating the Speech and
    Debate Clause to continue, Helstoski v. Meanor, 
    442 U.S. 500
     (1979); found no absolute
    immunity, Nixon v. Fitzgerald, 
    457 U.S. 731
     (1982); found no qualified immunity, Mitchell
    v. Forsyth, 
    472 U.S. 511
     (1985); denied a state's claim to Eleventh Amendment immunity,
    14
    years, that call for caution has acquired special force because rulemaking, 6 rather
    than court decision, has become "the preferred means for determining whether
    and when prejudgment orders should be immediately appealable." Id.7 That
    preference is in part due to how blunt of an instrument the collateral order
    doctrine is; whether an order is appealable is "determined for the entire category
    to which a claim belongs." Digit. Equip. Corp., 
    511 U.S. at 868
    .
    As to the first prong, a "conclusive determination" means that the
    appealed order must be a "complete, formal, and, in the trial court, final rejection
    of" the issue. Abney v. United States, 
    431 U.S. 651
    , 659 (1977). As to the second
    prong, an order resolves important questions independent from the merits when
    P.R. Aqueduct & Sewer Auth. v. Metcalf & Eddy, Inc., 
    506 U.S. 139
     (1993); and denied a
    right to avoid forced medication, Sell v. United States, 
    539 U.S. 166
     (2003). In almost two
    decades, the Supreme Court has expanded the collateral order doctrine in only one
    instance, to address state sovereignty and the All Writs Act in Shoop v. Twyford, 
    596 U.S. ___
    , 
    142 S. Ct. 2037
     (2022).
    6
    Congress has authorized the Supreme Court to promulgate rules "defin[ing]
    when a ruling of a district court is final for the purposes of appeal under
    [
    28 U.S.C. § 1291
    ]." 
    28 U.S.C. § 2072
    (c). Congress further specified that § 2072 allows
    the Supreme Court to prescribe rules "to provide for an appeal of an interlocutory
    decision to the courts of appeals that is not otherwise provided for" by statute.
    
    28 U.S.C. § 1292
    (e). The Supreme Court has not promulgated any rules that would
    grant us appellate jurisdiction over the district court's orders in this case.
    7
    There has even been discussion of ending expansion of the collateral order
    doctrine altogether. See, e.g., Mohawk Indus., 
    558 U.S. at 115
     (Thomas, J., concurring in
    part) ("[A]ny avenue for immediate appeal beyond [§ 1292(b), mandamus, and appeals
    from contempt orders] must be left to the rulemaking process." (internal quotation
    marks omitted)).
    15
    the questions involve a "claim[] of right separable from . . . rights asserted in the
    action." Cohen, 
    337 U.S. at 546
    . As to the third prong, an order is "effectively
    unreviewable" where "the order at issue involves an asserted right[,] the legal
    and practical value of which would be destroyed if it were not vindicated before
    trial." Lauro Lines, s.r.l. v. Chasser, 
    490 U.S. 495
    , 498-99 (1989) (internal quotation
    marks omitted). In contrast, the fact that a ruling "may burden litigants in ways
    that are only imperfectly reparable by appellate reversal of a final district court
    judgment" is not sufficient. Mohawk Indus., 
    558 U.S. at 107
     (internal quotation
    marks omitted).
    Here, Defendants essentially argue that the appealable category is
    cases where "church autonomy defenses [are] at issue." Defs.-Appellants' Br. at
    20.
    2.     The Church Autonomy Doctrine
    The church autonomy doctrine provides that religious associations
    have "independence in matters of faith and doctrine and in closely linked matters
    of internal government." Our Lady of Guadalupe Sch., 140 S. Ct. at 2061. To allow
    anyone "aggrieved by [a religious association's] decisions" to "appeal to the
    secular courts and have [those decisions] reversed" subverts the rights of
    16
    religious associations to retain independence in matters of faith, doctrine, and
    internal government. Kedroff v. St. Nicholas Cathedral, 
    344 U.S. 94
    , 114-15 (1952).
    But secular components of a dispute involving religious parties are
    not insulated from judicial review; a court may use the "neutral principles of law"
    approach. So long as the court relies "exclusively on objective, well-established
    [legal] concepts," it may permissibly resolve a dispute even when parties are
    religious bodies. Jones v. Wolf, 
    443 U.S. 595
    , 602-03 (1979) (establishing the
    neutral principles of law approach in a dispute over church property).8 This is a
    common-sense approach: When a case can be resolved by applying well-
    established law to secular components of a dispute, such resolution by a secular
    court presents no infringement upon a religious association's independence.
    Thus, simply having a religious association on one side of the "v" does not
    automatically mean a district court must dismiss the case or limit discovery.
    Neither this Court nor the Supreme Court has found or even
    suggested that district court orders like the ones Defendants appeal from fall
    8
    Most cases applying the "neutral principles of law" approach have resolved
    disputes over church property. The approach, however, goes beyond solely church
    property disputes. See Moon v. Moon, 
    833 F. App'x 876
    , 879 (2d Cir. 2020) (summary
    order) (applying the neutral principles of law approach when an individual sought to
    be recognized as the leader of a church organization).
    17
    within the collateral order doctrine. Nor can Defendants find support for this
    principle in the decisions of our sister circuits.
    B.    Analysis
    Here, Defendants appeal from the district court's denials of motions
    to dismiss, for reconsideration, and to bifurcate discovery or otherwise stay
    proceedings. We consider the three collateral order doctrine requirements in
    turn; that is, whether the categories of orders (1) are "conclusive"; (2) "resolve
    important questions separate from the merits"; and (3) "are effectively
    unreviewable on appeal from the final judgment in the underlying action."
    Swint, 
    514 U.S. at 42
    .
    We hold that the district court's orders do not fall within the
    collateral order doctrine.
    1.     Conclusiveness
    None of the district court's three orders is "conclusive," as none
    constitutes a "final rejection" of Defendants' asserted church autonomy defenses.
    Not only is the case in a preliminary posture, but the district court also
    recognized in its denial of Defendants' motion to dismiss that there would be
    certain issues it "would not consider . . . under the doctrine of ecclesiastical
    18
    abstention." Belya v. Hilarion, No. 20-CV-6597, 
    2021 WL 1997547
    , *4 (S.D.N.Y.
    May 19, 2021). At bottom, the orders are not conclusive because they do not bar
    any defenses, they did not rule on the merits of the church autonomy defense,
    and they permit Defendants to continue asserting the defense. It is possible that
    at some stage Defendants' church autonomy defenses will require limiting the
    scope of Belya's suit, or the extent of discovery, or even dismissal of the suit in its
    entirety. But we cannot and do not prematurely jump into the fray.
    We see clear parallels to a Seventh Circuit case where our sister
    circuit also declined to find appellate jurisdiction under the collateral order
    doctrine. When the diocese in that case sought appellate review of the district
    court's order denying summary judgment for the diocese on a sex-discrimination
    claim, the Seventh Circuit dismissed the appeal for lack of jurisdiction. Herx v.
    Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend, Inc., 
    772 F.3d 1085
    , 1091-92 (7th Cir. 2014). The
    Seventh Circuit reasoned it did not have appellate jurisdiction because the
    district court's order "ha[d] not ordered a religious question submitted to the jury
    for decision," and in fact the district court "promised to instruct the jury not to
    weigh or evaluate the Church's doctrine." 
    Id. at 1091
    ; cf. McCarthy v. Fuller, 
    714 F.3d 971
    , 975 (7th Cir. 2013) (holding that an order was collaterally appealable
    19
    because it sent the religious question of whether party was a nun to the jury).
    Here, there are also numerous steps before the finish line of the litigation. And
    the district court has shown that it is aware that religious questions may arise --
    and could instruct a potential jury to not weigh or evaluate those issues should
    litigation progress to that stage. See Hilarion, 
    2021 WL 1997547
    , at *4 ("[T]he
    [district court] will not pass judgment on the internal policies and or
    determinations of [ROCOR], nor would it be able to under the doctrine of
    ecclesiastical abstention.").
    Even though the Supreme Court has "generally denied review of
    pretrial discovery orders" under the collateral order doctrine, Mohawk Indus., 
    558 U.S. at 108
     (internal quotation marks omitted), Defendants argue that putting
    "the Church through the discovery that will be necessary to resolve [Belya's]
    claims will itself violate the [First Amendment]." Defs.-Appellants' Br. at 30
    (emphasis added). At essence, their claim is that the district court's orders are
    the final decision on whether discovery can proceed; thus, Defendants contend,
    the orders constitute a "final rejection."
    But this claim runs afoul of not only the Supreme Court's general
    disinclination but also our explicit precedent. We have said that "the finality
    20
    requirement cannot be employed to obtain interlocutory review of discovery
    orders." Chase Manhattan Bank, N.A. v. Turner & Newall, PLC, 
    964 F.2d 159
    , 163
    (2d Cir. 1992) (quoting Xerox Corp. v. SCM Corp., 
    534 F.2d 1031
    , 1031-32 (2d Cir.
    1976) (per curiam)). And beyond that general restriction, the church autonomy
    doctrine at most protects against discovery that would intrude into the protected
    area of the church -- it does not provide religious organizations with blanket
    protection from discovery. It therefore does not constitute a "final rejection" of
    Defendants' church autonomy rights for discovery to proceed into secular
    components of Belya's claims under neutral defamation laws. If a discovery
    request targets non-secular components, a religious association may continue to
    raise a church autonomy defense with the district court.
    In their argument to the contrary, Defendants point primarily to a
    decision of the Fifth Circuit, Whole Woman's Health v. Smith, 
    896 F.3d 362
     (5th Cir.
    2018). They claim that "the Fifth Circuit accepted a collateral order appeal to
    prevent [a church] from having to turn over internal documents." Defs.-
    Appellants' Br. at 31.
    Defendants misunderstand the Fifth Circuit's law. Whole Woman's
    Health permitted collateral appeal of religious questions only when a party
    21
    sought discovery from a third party and the appeal related "to the predicament
    of third parties." Whole Woman's Health, 896 F.3d at 367-68 (asserting that order
    falls within collateral order doctrine because, in part, third-party witness
    appealing "cannot benefit directly from" any post-final judgment relief).
    Additionally, in a later case, the Fifth Circuit unequivocally pushed back against
    applying church autonomy defenses when the "conclusion was premature" and
    "many of the relevant facts have yet to be developed." McRaney v. N. Am. Mission
    Bd. of the S. Baptist Convention, Inc., 
    966 F.3d 346
    , 347, 349 (5th Cir. 2020)
    (reversing district court's order dismissing case because district court incorrectly
    "found that it would need to resolve ecclesiastical questions in order to resolve
    [plaintiff's] claims"), cert. denied, 
    141 S. Ct. 2852
     (2021). Here, there is no third
    party who may be harmed by discovery, and there are many relevant facts that
    have yet to be developed.
    In all, the district court's orders lack the conclusiveness required for
    appellate jurisdiction under the collateral order doctrine.
    2.     Questions Separate from the Merits
    Likewise, we conclude that the district court's orders do not involve
    a claim of right separable from the merits of the action. While it is possible that,
    22
    in some circumstances, the church autonomy doctrine can present questions
    separable from the merits of a defamation claim, at this pre-discovery juncture
    we cannot say that is the case here. Cf. Tucker v. Faith Bible Chapel Int'l, 
    36 F.4th 1021
    , 1036 (10th Cir. 2022) (holding that, for "decisions denying a religious
    employer summary judgment on the 'ministerial exception,'" the "issue is separate
    from the merits of an employee's discrimination claims." (emphasis added)).
    Indeed, one of Defendants' principal defenses to Belya's defamation claim is the
    church autonomy doctrine; they argue that Belya's claims interfere with, for
    example, church discipline and autonomy by impacting ROCOR's ability to
    select, supervise, and discipline its ministers. For now, it appears that the case
    can be litigated with neutral principles of law. See Jones, 
    443 U.S. at 602-03
    . In
    the end, however, further proceedings may uncover that the merits do turn on
    the church autonomy doctrine. Again, it is too soon to say at this point.
    3.     Effectively Unreviewable on Appeal
    Nor would the value of Defendants' rights be "destroyed if [they]
    were not vindicated before trial." Lauro Lines, s.r.l., 
    490 U.S. at 498-99
    . The
    church autonomy doctrine provides religious associations neither an immunity
    from discovery nor an immunity from trial on secular matters. Instead, as the
    23
    Seventh Circuit also recognized, the First Amendment serves more as "an
    ordinary defense to liability." Herx, 772 F.3d at 1090.
    Other precedent also emphasizes that the church autonomy doctrine
    is a defense and not a jurisdictional bar from suit. See Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical
    Lutheran Church & Sch. v. E.E.O.C., 
    565 U.S. 171
    , 195 n.4 (2012) ("[T]he
    [ministerial] exception operates as an affirmative defense to an otherwise
    cognizable claim, not a jurisdictional bar.");9 cf. Tucker, 36 F.4th at 1025 ("The
    Supreme Court has made clear that the 'ministerial exception' is an affirmative
    defense to employment discrimination claims, rather than a jurisdictional
    limitation on the authority of courts to hear such claims.").10 A recent Supreme
    Court denial of certiorari clearly suggests that the church autonomy doctrine
    does not provide immunity from discovery or trial. See Gordon Coll. v. DeWeese-
    Boyd, 
    142 S. Ct. 952
     (2022) (denying certiorari); see also Tucker, 36 F.4th at 1036-47
    (dismissing an interlocutory appeal for lack of jurisdiction and rejecting the
    argument that the ministerial exception "immunizes a religious employer from
    9
    Hosanna-Tabor focused on the ministerial exception. As discussed previously,
    however, the ministerial exception is one component of church autonomy. See Our Lady
    of Guadalupe Sch., 140 S. Ct. at 2060.
    10
    The Tenth Circuit in Tucker acknowledged that the ministerial exception was one
    part of the "broader church autonomy doctrine" and explained that its analysis was
    constrained to the "ministerial exception." 36 F.4th at 1028.
    24
    suit on employment discrimination claims"). In his concurrence to the denial of
    certiorari, Justice Samuel Alito emphasized that the "interlocutory posture" of the
    case would "complicate" the Court's review, and that nothing "would preclude
    [defendant] from . . . seeking review in [the] Court when the decision is actually
    final." Gordon Coll., 142 S. Ct. at 955 (Alito, J., concurring) (internal quotation
    marks omitted). Immediate appellate review is not the proper avenue for parties
    seeking to assert a church autonomy defense.11
    Defendants argue that the parallels between qualified immunity and
    church autonomy mean church autonomy is also an "immunity from discovery
    and trial" and thus falls within the collateral order doctrine. Defs.-Appellants' Br.
    at 50. To that end, Defendants and amici offer a handful of cases comparing the
    church autonomy defense with qualified immunity in § 1983 cases.12 But their
    11
    One proper avenue is, as discussed, appealing from the final judgment of the
    district court. Another may be a writ of mandamus. See 
    28 U.S.C. § 1651
    (a). We have
    previously granted such a writ to a religious association that did not meet the
    requirements for a collateral appeal. See In re Roman Cath. Diocese of Albany, 
    745 F.3d 30
    ,
    35 (2d Cir. 2014) (per curiam). There, the religious association argued it would suffer
    harm if discovery proceeded even though personal jurisdiction remained unclear. 
    Id.
    12
    Although the context in which the comparison was used varies between cases,
    each case does draw explicit parallels between qualified immunity and church
    autonomy. The Seventh Circuit drew the comparison between church autonomy and
    immunity when considering appellate jurisdiction. See McCarthy, 714 F.3d at 975
    ("[T]he district judge's ruling challenged by the plaintiffs [is] closely akin to a denial of
    official immunity.") There are also some cases discussing motions to dismiss. In
    25
    analogy falls flat on a crucial point. It is true that a district court's order denying
    qualified immunity is an immediately appealable collateral order -- but only "to
    the extent that it turns on an issue of law." Mitchell v. Forsyth, 
    472 U.S. 511
    , 530
    (1985). The presence of factual questions means we lack appellate jurisdiction to
    review a denial of qualified immunity. See Franco v. Gunsalus, 
    972 F.3d 170
    , 174
    (2d Cir. 2020).
    The orders appealed here involve the existence of many genuinely
    disputed fact questions. The Supreme Court has explained that:
    [A]n interlocutory appeal concerning [triable issues of
    fact] in a sense makes unwise use of appellate courts'
    time, by forcing them to decide in the context of a less
    developed record, an issue very similar to one they may
    well decide anyway later, on a record that will permit a
    better decision.
    Johnson v. Jones, 
    515 U.S. 304
    , 317 (1995). The defamation claims asserted here
    hinge on crucial questions of fact, and, as the district court recognized, there are
    holding that the proper motion to dismiss for a church autonomy defense is under
    Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6), the Tenth Circuit wrote that "the ministerial
    exception, like the broader church autonomy doctrine, can be likened 'to a government
    official's defense of qualified immunity.'" Skrzypczak v. Roman Cath. Diocese of Tulsa, 
    611 F.3d 1238
    , 1242 (10th Cir. 2010) (quoting Bryce v. Episcopal Church in the Diocese of Colo.,
    
    289 F.3d 648
    , 652 (10th Cir. 2002)). In discussing the Tenth Circuit Bryce decision, the
    Third Circuit added that the church autonomy doctrine is "akin to a government
    official's defense of qualified immunity." Petruska v. Gannon Univ., 
    462 F.3d 294
    , 302 (3d
    Cir. 2006).
    26
    numerous "disputes as to whether the factual situation presented fits into the
    [church autonomy doctrine]." Belya, 
    2021 WL 2809604
    , at *2. Decidedly non-
    ecclesiastical questions of fact remain. For example, did the purported
    signatories actually sign the letters? Were the December 10 and January 11
    letters stamped with Metropolitan Hilarion's seal? If so, who stamped them?
    Was the early January letter on Archbishop Gavriil's letterhead? More broadly,
    did Belya forge the letters at issue? These are outstanding secular fact questions
    that are not properly before us -- and would not require a fact-finder to delve
    into matters of faith and doctrine.
    Accordingly, we hold that the district court's orders are not
    reviewable on interlocutory appeal under the collateral order doctrine.
    CONCLUSION
    For the reasons set forth above, we lack jurisdiction to hear this
    appeal. Accordingly, we GRANT Belya's July 15, 2021, motion to dismiss. The
    appeal is DISMISSED, and the temporary stay granted September 2, 2021, is
    VACATED.
    27