Irma Allen v. Ollies Bargain Outlet Inc ( 2022 )


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  •                                            PRECEDENTIAL
    UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
    FOR THE THIRD CIRCUIT
    ____________
    No. 21-2121
    ____________
    IRMA ALLEN; BARTLEY MICHAEL MULLEN, Jr.,
    Individually and on behalf of all others similarly situated
    v.
    OLLIE’S BARGAIN OUTLET, INC.,
    Appellant
    ____________
    On Appeal from the United States District Court
    for the Western District of Pennsylvania
    (D.C. Civil No. 2-19-cv-00281)
    District Judge: Honorable William S. Stickman, IV
    ____________
    Argued: March 15, 2022
    Before: JORDAN, KRAUSE, and PORTER,
    Circuit Judges.
    (Filed: June 24, 2022)
    ____________
    Richard L. Etter [ARGUED]
    Ogletree Deakins
    One PPG Place
    Suite 1900
    Pittsburgh, PA 15222
    David L. Schenberg
    Ogletree Deakins
    7700 Bonhomme Avenue
    Suite 650
    St. Louis, MO 63105
    Counsel for Appellant
    R. Bruce Carlson
    Carlson Brown
    222 Broad Street
    Sewickley, PA 15143
    Gary F. Lynch
    Elizabeth Pollock-Avery
    Kelly K. Iverson
    Jamisen A. Etzel [ARGUED]
    Nicholas Colella
    Lynch Carpenter
    1133 Penn Avenue
    5th Floor
    Pittsburgh, PA 15222
    Counsel for Appellees
    2
    ____________
    OPINION OF THE COURT
    ____________
    PORTER, Circuit Judge.
    Irma Allen and Bartley Mullen are disabled and need
    wheelchairs to move about. Hoping to find “Good Stuff
    Cheap,” they went shopping at two different bargain stores
    owned by Ollie’s Bargain Outlet, Inc. (“Ollie’s”). But once
    inside Ollie’s, they encountered an obstacle course: pillars,
    clothing racks, and boxes blocked their way. Dissatisfied with
    their shopping experiences, they filed a putative class action
    against Ollie’s under Title III of the Americans with Disabili-
    ties Act (“ADA”). They seek permission to sue on behalf of
    every similarly disabled individual who shops at any Ollie’s
    store in the United States and has or will encounter interior
    access barriers. The District Court certified the proposed class.
    We will vacate and remand. The District Court abused its dis-
    cretion by certifying an overly broad class based on inadequate
    evidence of numerosity and commonality.
    I
    A
    Ollie’s owns and operates over four hundred retail
    stores across twenty-nine states.1 Allen and Mullen visited two
    different Ollie’s stores in Monaca and New Castle,
    1
    Ollie’s Bargain Outlet Holdings, Inc., 2021 Annual Report
    (Form 10-K) at 1 (“We have grown to 431 stores in 29 states
    as of January 29, 2022.”).
    3
    Pennsylvania. There, they encountered obstacles blocking their
    path of travel, including inventory on the floor, clothing racks
    placed too close together, boxes, pallets, and structural pillars.
    Pictures taken later at these stores show aisles similarly nar-
    rowed by inventory carts, pallets, columns, boxes, or goods on
    the floor. Suspecting a pattern, Allen and Mullen’s lawyers
    hired investigators to take photographs and measure aisle
    width at several Ollie’s stores in Pennsylvania. After this pre-
    liminary investigation, Allen and Mullen sued Ollie’s under
    Title III of the ADA.
    B
    Title III of the ADA prohibits retailers like Ollie’s from
    discriminating “on the basis of disability in the full and equal
    enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges,
    advantages, or accommodations” they offer to the public. 
    42 U.S.C. § 12182
    (a). This general prohibition has several spe-
    cific definitions that extend disability discrimination beyond
    disparate treatment or invidious discrimination. Plaintiffs fo-
    cus their complaint and argument on three specific definitions
    of Title III discrimination. We discuss these for background.
    First, Title III discrimination includes “a failure to make
    reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures,
    when such modifications are necessary to afford” goods, ser-
    vices, and the like to “individuals with disabilities.” 
    Id.
    § 12182(b)(2)(A)(ii). “To comply with this command, an indi-
    vidualized inquiry must be made to determine whether a spe-
    cific modification for a particular person’s disability would be
    reasonable under the circumstances as well as necessary for
    that person . . . .” PGA Tour, Inc. v. Martin, 
    532 U.S. 661
    , 688
    (2001).
    4
    Second, Title III discrimination includes “a failure to
    remove architectural barriers . . . in existing facilities, . . .
    where such removal is readily achievable.” 
    42 U.S.C. § 12182
    (b)(2)(A)(iv). The Department of Justice gives the
    term “architectural barriers” a broad scope. For example,
    shelves, tables, chairs, vending machines, display racks, and
    furniture are treated as “architectural.” 
    28 C.F.R. § 36.304
    (b)(3), (4). Architectural barriers must be removed
    only when “readily achievable,” a standard that “means easily
    accomplishable and able to be carried out without much diffi-
    culty or expense.” 
    42 U.S.C. § 12181
    (9).
    Third, facilities built or altered after the ADA’s effec-
    tive dates must be “readily accessible to and usable by” the dis-
    abled. 
    42 U.S.C. § 12183
    (a); 
    28 C.F.R. §§ 36.401
    (a)(1),
    402(a)(1). To be readily accessible, a facility must comply with
    the standards for accessible design. 
    28 C.F.R. § 36.406
    . Under
    section 403.5.1 of the most recent 2010 standards, aisles must
    generally be at least thirty-six inches wide, but can measure as
    little as thirty-two inches wide for short distances. 36 C.F.R.
    pt. 1191, app. D. Department of Justice rules require facilities
    to maintain accessible aisles “in operable working condition.”
    
    28 C.F.R. § 36.211
    (a).
    Plaintiffs’ “core contention” is that “Ollie’s deliberately
    directs the placement of merchandise within aisles,” causing a
    corporate-wide failure to maintain accessible aisles. Appellees’
    Br. 28. Under plaintiffs’ theory, retail stores fail to maintain
    accessible aisles “in operable working condition” if they inten-
    tionally and recurringly block them with movable objects, a
    position supported by Ninth Circuit precedent. See Chapman
    v. Pier 1 Imports (U.S.) Inc., 
    779 F.3d 1001
    , 1009 (9th Cir.
    2015) (retail store violated ADA when it had a pattern of
    obstructing aisles with objects like “step ladders”). Plaintiffs
    5
    claim that Ollie’s failure to modify its corporate policies to pre-
    vent this alleged merchandising practice is discriminatory, and
    they also suggest that some or all merchandising goods count
    as “architectural” barriers that must be removed.
    C
    After completing targeted discovery, plaintiffs moved
    to certify the following class under Federal Rule of Civil Pro-
    cedure 23(b)(2):
    All persons with qualified mobility disabilities
    who have attempted, or will attempt, to access
    the interior of any store owned or operated by
    [Ollie’s] within the United States and have, or
    will have, experienced access barriers in interior
    paths of travel.
    App. 171. Before proceeding as a class under Rule 23(b)(2),
    plaintiffs had to satisfy Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 23(a).
    Under Rule 23(a), they had to “demonstrate, first, that ‘(1) the
    class is so numerous that joinder of all members is impractica-
    ble; ‘(2) there are questions of law or fact common to the class;
    ‘(3) the claims or defenses of the representative parties are typ-
    ical of the claims or defenses of the class; and ‘(4) the repre-
    sentative parties will fairly and adequately protect the interests
    of the class.’” Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. v. Dukes, 
    564 U.S. 338
    ,
    345 (2011) (quoting Fed. R. Civ. P. 23(a)). To satisfy Rule
    23(b)(2), plaintiffs then had to show that Ollie’s “has acted or
    refused to act on grounds that apply generally to the class, so
    that final injunctive relief or corresponding declaratory relief
    is appropriate respecting the class as a whole.” 
    Id.
     at 345–46
    (quoting Fed. R. Civ. P. 23(b)(2)).
    6
    Before the District Court, Plaintiffs argued that joinder
    of class members was impracticable given the size of the class.
    They introduced three strands of evidence to support this
    assertion. First, data from the U.S Census Bureau’s 2018
    American Community Survey, estimating the number of peo-
    ple with ambulatory disabilities—meaning serious difficulty
    walking or climbing stairs—for each zip code with an Ollie’s
    store. Second, twelve emails received by Ollie’s customer ser-
    vice over three years from or on behalf of patrons that use
    wheelchairs or have a mobility disability. Third, a declaration
    stating that over seven days, sixteen persons using wheelchairs
    or scooters were recorded by video at the two Ollie’s locations
    where Allen and Mullen shopped.
    Plaintiffs at first argued there were common questions
    based on Ollie’s alleged failure to adopt ADA-specific stand-
    ard operating procedures and employee training practices. In
    their reply brief, plaintiffs urged a narrower commonality
    argument, one they now press on appeal. They asserted that
    Ollie’s “employees” have a common “practice” of “placing
    merchandise displays and stock in locations that block or limit
    accessibility,” and they attributed this alleged practice to
    Ollie’s corporate “merchandise stocking and display prac-
    tices.” App. 901–02. To support this commonality argument,
    plaintiffs cited allegations in their complaint, Allen’s and
    Mullen’s depositions, and photographs of Pennsylvania stores
    showing a “pattern and practice of path of travel obstructions.”
    App. 901 n.8, 902 n.9.
    D
    The District Court certified the proposed class. The
    District Court agreed with plaintiffs that joinder of all class
    members would be impracticable. Allen v. Ollie’s Bargain
    7
    Outlet, Inc., No. 2:19-CV-281, 
    2021 WL 1152981
    , at *6 (W.D.
    Pa. Mar. 26, 2021). Adding Allen and Mullen, the twelve cus-
    tomer emails, and the sixteen individuals observed in two
    stores over seven days, the District Court concluded that plain-
    tiffs “have concretely shown that thirty people with potential
    mobility disabilities are customers of Ollie’s stores.” 
    Id.
     In the
    District Court’s judgment, the circumstantial evidence of thirty
    potentially disabled patrons, together with the community sur-
    vey estimates, was enough. 
    Id.
     As the District Court put it,
    “[t]he statistical evidence presented already indicates that there
    is a good chance that the proposed class is numerous, and any
    speculation accompanying the statistical data alone is over-
    come by the addition of the concrete, case-specific evidence of
    written complaints and video footage.” 
    Id. at *6
     (citation omit-
    ted). Ollie’s objected to the use of the customer complaints as
    inadmissible hearsay, but the District Court overruled the
    objection, holding that non-expert evidence like the customer
    complaints need not be admissible to certify a class. 
    Id.
     at *5
    n.5.
    The District Court also held the proposed class pre-
    sented common questions. It relied on a syllogism. First,
    “Ollie’s policies are uniform and company-wide.” 
    Id. at *7
    .
    Second, “[i]f Ollie’s policies and procedures do, in fact, cause
    access barriers to unlawfully restrict individuals with disabili-
    ties from obtaining their desired goods, then proposed mem-
    bers who endured violations have suffered the same injury, the
    resolution of which will resolve a central issue in one fell
    stroke.” 
    Id.
     “As a result,” the District Court held, “Plaintiffs
    have satisfied their burden of showing by a preponderance of
    the evidence that there are questions of law or fact common to
    the proposed class.” 
    Id.
     After finding the remaining require-
    ments of Rule 23(a) were met, the District Court held that the
    8
    proposed class satisfied Rule 23(b)(2) because “[a]n injunction
    requiring the removal of the existing access barriers, and the
    modification of Ollie’s policies to prevent the use of access
    barriers restricting disabled individuals’ use and enjoyment of
    Ollie’s goods would provide appropriate relief to the proposed
    class.” 
    Id. at *8
    .
    This appeal followed.
    II
    The District Court had subject-matter jurisdiction under
    
    28 U.S.C. § 1331
    . We have appellate jurisdiction under Rule
    23(f) and 
    28 U.S.C. § 1292
    (e). Mielo v. Steak ’n Shake
    Operations, Inc., 
    897 F.3d 467
    , 473–74 (3d Cir. 2018). If the
    case proceeds to summary judgment or trial, the result may be
    different, but Allen and Mullen have adequately alleged Article
    III standing at this stage. 
    Id.
     at 478–82.
    We review a class certification order for abuse of dis-
    cretion, which occurs if the trial court’s decision rests on a
    clearly erroneous finding of fact, an errant conclusion of law,
    or an improper application of law to fact. Marcus v. BMW of
    N. Am., LLC, 
    687 F.3d 583
    , 590 (3d Cir. 2012). We review
    questions of law, including whether the trial court applied the
    correct legal standard, de novo. Steak ’n Shake, 897 F.3d at
    474.
    III
    A
    Under Rule 23, the proposed class must be “so numer-
    ous that joinder of all members is impracticable.” Fed. R. Civ.
    P. 23(a)(1). This “rule prevents putative class representatives
    9
    and their counsel, when joinder can be easily accomplished,
    from unnecessarily depriving members of a small class of their
    right to a day in court to adjudicate their own claims.” Marcus,
    687 F.3d at 594–95. As with every Rule 23 requirement, plain-
    tiffs must show the class is numerous enough by a preponder-
    ance of the evidence. Steak ’n Shake, 897 F.3d at 483–84. We
    presume joinder is impracticable when the potential number of
    class members exceeds forty. Id. at 486. This is a guidepost:
    showing the number of class members exceeds forty is neither
    necessary nor always sufficient. Marcus, 687 F.3d at 595. “The
    text” of Rule 23(a)(1) is “conspicuously devoid of any numer-
    ical minimum required for class certification.” In re Modafinil
    Antitrust Litig., 
    837 F.3d 238
    , 249 (3d Cir. 2016). But while a
    class of forty-one does not automatically satisfy Rule 23(a)(1),
    a putative class that size faces a relaxed burden under our prec-
    edent. By contrast, the “inquiry into impracticability should be
    particularly rigorous when the putative class consists of fewer
    than forty members.” 
    Id. at 250
    .
    In recent opinions, we have given the numerosity re-
    quirement “real teeth.” Steak ’n Shake, 897 F.3d at 484. When
    plaintiffs cannot directly identify class members, they “must
    show sufficient circumstantial evidence specific to the prod-
    ucts, problems, parties, and geographic areas actually covered
    by the class definition to allow a district court to make a factual
    finding. Only then may the court rely on ‘common sense’ to
    forgo precise calculations and exact numbers.” Marcus, 687
    F.3d at 596. And “where a putative class is some subset of a
    larger pool, the trial court may not infer numerosity from the
    number in the larger pool alone.” Hayes v. Wal-Mart Stores,
    Inc., 
    725 F.3d 349
    , 358 (3d Cir. 2013). In Steak ’n Shake, for
    example, census data showing “there are between 14.9 million
    to 20.9 million persons with mobility disabilities who live in
    10
    the United States” was not enough to show numerosity under
    Rule 23(a)(1). 897 F.3d at 486. Applying these principles, we
    conclude the District Court abused its discretion when it found
    that plaintiffs had met their numerosity burden.
    1
    Plaintiffs argue that the 2018 American Community
    Survey estimates of persons with mobility disabilities would
    alone allow us to affirm the District Court’s numerosity find-
    ing. But these survey estimates prove little. The survey
    measures anyone who reports serious difficulty walking or
    climbing steps. Plaintiffs acknowledge that the more relevant
    number of disabled persons—individuals needing wheel-
    chairs—is about an order of magnitude lower, and they ask us
    to extrapolate more accurate regional numbers from different
    national census estimates. The national census study they cite
    estimates that persons needing wheelchairs are a small fraction
    of the population that has severe difficulty walking or climbing
    stairs. See Mathew W. Brault, U.S. Census Bureau, Americans
    with Disabilities: 2010, P70-131, Table A-1, 17 (July 2012)
    (8.3% of the U.S. population fifteen and older has a severe
    mobility disability, but only 1.5% uses a wheelchair),
    https://perma.cc/5V96-H5DS. But extrapolating the relevant
    number across every region would be hazardous speculation.
    “Trained experts commonly extrapolate from existing data.”
    Gen. Elec. Co. v. Joiner, 
    522 U.S. 136
    , 146 (1997). Generalist
    Article III judges typically do not.
    Regional population statistics like the survey are in any
    event insufficient. The District Court was right “that a district
    court’s finding premised almost exclusively on statistical data
    is not enough to satisfy numerosity—something more is
    required.” Ollie’s, 
    2021 WL 1152981
    , at *6. Steak ’n Shake
    11
    rejected reliance on statistical data documenting the number of
    disabled people not because it was national in scope, but
    because it did not allow us to “determine—rather than specu-
    late about—the portion of those disabled individuals who have
    actually patronized a relevant Steak ’n Shake restaurant, let
    alone the portion who have experienced or will experience an
    ADA violation at one of those restaurants.” 897 F.3d at 486.
    The same remains true for regional population statistics.
    Regional estimates of a disabled population showing proximity
    to a store may be more probative of disabled customers than
    national ones, depending on the quality and reliability of the
    study’s statistical methods and practices, but they alone do not
    support a finding that a class is numerous. Consider Ollie’s
    store in Monaca, Pennsylvania. The survey suggests there are
    about one thousand persons with mobility disabilities living in
    the same zip code. Plaintiffs would extrapolate that about a
    tenth of these residents, or one hundred Monaca residents, need
    wheelchairs to move about. Even if that extrapolation is
    accurate, however, we would still be left with no basis to
    determine what portion of those one hundred wheelchair-
    bound residents of Monaca are customers of Ollie’s, let alone
    what portion have suffered a common ADA injury. We cannot
    infer numerosity from this large pool of residents.
    The “something more” required by Steak ’n Shake is
    concrete evidence of class members who have patronized a
    public accommodation and have suffered or will likely suffer
    common ADA injuries. We reject plaintiffs’ argument that the
    community survey estimates alone are enough to carry their
    burden of proof.
    12
    2
    We next turn to the other two strands of non-statistical
    evidence the District Court thought set this case apart from
    Steak ’n Shake. While this evidence is probative, after examin-
    ing all the evidence, we are still left with head-scratching spec-
    ulation, insufficient to support a factual finding.
    a.
    The first strand of non-statistical evidence is plaintiffs’
    declaration stating that over seven days, sixteen persons using
    wheelchairs or scooters were recorded by video at the two
    Ollie’s locations where Allen and Mullen shopped.2 We agree
    that this declaration is “probative of the number of potentially
    disabled individuals visiting Ollie’s stores.” Ollie’s, 
    2021 WL 1152981
    , at *5 n.6. But it is not enough to satisfy plaintiffs’
    burden of proof on numerosity, even considered alongside the
    community survey of disabled residents.
    For one, the declaration does not allow us to determine
    what portion of disabled residents shop at Ollie’s. Plaintiffs ask
    us to extrapolate customer numbers from a limited video sam-
    ple of two stores over seven days, arguing the video footage
    suggests more than three hundred wheelchair-using customers
    2
    Ollie’s does not challenge the admissibility of this
    declaration, and for good reason. When a class certification
    “motion relies on facts outside the record,” Federal Rule of
    Civil Procedure 43(c) allows trial courts to “hear the matter on
    affidavits.” And the Judicial Code permits declarations instead
    of affidavits. 
    28 U.S.C. § 1746
    . Regardless of whether the
    Federal Rules of Evidence govern, the declaration was
    properly before the District Court.
    13
    shop at Ollie’s every day. But that extrapolation rests on spec-
    ulation, not a reasonable inference. The video, for starters, does
    not allow us to determine what portion of those wheelchair-
    using customers are disabled. To be disabled, the customers
    would need to have “a physical or mental impairment that sub-
    stantially limits one or more major life activities,” including
    “walking.” 
    42 U.S.C. § 12102
    (1)(A), (2)(A). At least some
    wheelchair- or scooter-using customers may not qualify. Cf.
    Richardson v. Chicago Transit Auth., 
    926 F.3d 881
    , 884 (7th
    Cir. 2019) (holding extreme obesity does not qualify as a phys-
    ical impairment if it is not the result of a physiological disorder
    or condition). To be sure, we agree the District Court does not
    need to “determine as a matter of law that each of the sixteen
    individuals seen using a wheelchair are mobility disabled un-
    der the ADA before considering the photographs.” Ollie’s,
    
    2021 WL 1152981
    , at *5 n.6. In this case, the District Court
    used common sense to infer that at least some of the customers
    using wheelchairs are likely disabled. 
    Id.
     We cannot say that
    common-sense inference was an abuse of discretion. It is fair
    to infer that at least some of the wheelchair-using customers
    are likely disabled under the ADA. Even if we accept the
    District Court’s conclusion, however, the number of disabled
    customers observed in the video could range from zero to six-
    teen. Some evidence buttressing a correlation between the
    wheelchair-using and ADA-disabled populations would signif-
    icantly strengthen this evidence.
    Still, even assuming all sixteen customers were likely
    disabled and that none of them were repeat visitors, we have
    no basis to assume that the rate of wheelchair-using customers
    observed in the video footage sample is representative of
    Ollie’s stores. Before we can extrapolate the limited sample
    across four hundred stores, our precedent requires at least some
    14
    evidence supporting a factual finding that disabled customers
    visit Ollie’s “in roughly equal proportions” to the rate observed
    in the video. Marcus, 687 F.3d at 596. Otherwise, we remain
    in the realm of speculation, not common-sense inferences. And
    even if the declaration allowed us to determine the pool of
    wheelchair-bound Ollie’s customers, the declaration still does
    not allow us to “determine—rather than speculate about—the
    portion of those disabled individuals who . . . have experienced
    or will experience an ADA violation at one of those” stores.
    Steak ’n Shake, 897 F.3d at 486. The declaration does not sug-
    gest that the wheelchair-using customers observed in the video
    suffered an ADA violation in common with the class. At best,
    the declaration is evidence of the general pool of wheelchair-
    using Ollie’s customers, not the more relevant subset of
    wheelchair-bound customers who have suffered common
    ADA injuries. The District Court appears to have assumed that
    evidence of injured customers was unnecessary to support
    numerosity. See Ollie’s, 
    2021 WL 1152981
    , at *6 n.7. If so,
    that was error. Evidence establishing the subset of injured cus-
    tomers, not just the general pool of wheelchair-using customers
    who shop at Ollie’s, is necessary to support a finding that a
    class is likely numerous enough. See Marcus, 687 F.3d at 595.
    The putative class consists of persons with mobility disabilities
    who encountered or will encounter inaccessible aisles at an
    Ollie’s store. There may well be millions of wheelchair-bound
    Ollie’s customers across all twenty-nine states, but if none of
    them suffered or will likely suffer similar class injuries, they
    are not class members and do not support a finding of numer-
    osity.
    b.
    The District Court also relied on what it characterized
    as “the written complaints of twelve individuals complaining,
    15
    in one way or another, of various barriers adversely affecting
    the navigation of individuals who are wheelchair-bound.”
    Ollie’s, 
    2021 WL 1152981
    , at *5. Unlike the community sur-
    vey or the video, at least some of these customer complaints
    support the existence of putative class members with common
    ADA injuries. But there are far too few complaints, and not all
    of them support the District Court’s finding.
    At the outset, we note the parties dispute whether the
    customer complaints are admissible as evidence. Ollie’s argues
    that the Federal Rules of Evidence apply during the class cer-
    tification stage, and that the customer complaints are inadmis-
    sible hearsay. Plaintiffs respond that “fact” testimony—as
    opposed to expert opinion—need not be admissible to support
    class certification. The District Court agreed with plaintiffs,
    holding the Federal Rules of Evidence are inapplicable to non-
    expert evidence used to certify a class. Ollie’s, 
    2021 WL 1152981
    , at *5 n.5. We decline to decide this question. For
    even assuming—and it is only an assumption—that the Federal
    Rules of Evidence do not govern the admissibility of the cus-
    tomer complaints, the record still would not establish numer-
    osity.3
    To begin, at least one of the twelve customer complaints
    does not support membership in the putative class. The rele-
    vant email says:
    Please pass this on to the management at the
    Columbus, GA store. My husband and I recently
    visited this store for the first time, and we were
    very impressed. My husband is a paraplegic, and
    3
    Ollie’s has preserved this argument and may raise it again on
    remand.
    16
    uses a wheelchair while shopping. There were
    very few places he could not get into, and every
    employee he encountered asked if he needed
    help. The aisles were clear, and the merchandise
    was—for the most part—easy for him to reach.
    When we asked for help, it was given cheerfully
    and quickly. We enjoyed the experience, and
    plan to become regular customers. The employ-
    ees of this store went above and beyond, and I
    just wanted you to know.
    App. 711. The class definition is limited to disabled individuals
    who have experienced access barriers in interior access aisles.
    This disabled customer reportedly experienced clear aisles at
    his local Ollie’s store in Georgia, so he is not a potential class
    member. The District Court clearly erred by relying on this
    email as evidence of a potential class member.
    There may be others. Ollie’s argues that other customer
    complaints, closely read, similarly do not support the existence
    of class members. For example, Ollie’s argues that the District
    Court should have excluded two customer complaints made
    outside of Pennsylvania’s two-year statute of limitations for
    personal injury claims. The District Court never considered
    these arguments. On remand, the District Court should deter-
    mine whether the remaining complaints support the existence
    of putative class members. To do so, the District Court must be
    able to infer from the complaints that an Ollie’s customer with
    a mobility disability suffered or will suffer a common ADA
    injury that falls within the putative class definition. Otherwise,
    the District Court cannot rely on the customer complaints to
    determine the existence of putative class members.
    17
    In any event, even assuming all eleven remaining cus-
    tomer complaints support a finding that there are at least eleven
    putative class members, and considering the declaration and
    the statistical evidence together, as the District Court did, we
    still find the evidence far too speculative. To recap, the com-
    munity survey tells us nothing concrete about the portion of
    disabled residents who shop at Ollie’s stores. The declaration
    tells us nothing about what portion of disabled customers suf-
    fered common ADA injuries, and little about what number of
    disabled residents shop at Ollie’s. And the customer com-
    plaints are few. Eleven complaints over almost four years of
    company operations are hardly evidence of a sizable class. The
    customer complaints overall give us little reason to conclude
    that judicial economy supports depriving the apparently small
    number of complainants of their day in court by aggregating
    their individual claims in a classwide suit.
    In short, after considering the record evidence, we have
    proof of a class that consists of Allen, Mullen, and at most
    eleven others. To establish numerosity, plaintiffs must do more
    to prove the existence of actual class members. See In re
    Modafinil Antitrust Litig., 837 F.3d at 250 (suggesting a class
    of twenty or less would be too small to justify a class action).
    If plaintiffs cannot carry the burden on numerosity, Allen and
    Mullen may always seek relief individually.
    3
    While “the number of class members is the starting
    point,” trial courts should weigh other factors relevant to the
    practicability of joinder under Rule 23(a)(1), including “judi-
    cial economy, the claimants’ ability and motivation to litigate
    as joined plaintiffs, the financial resources of class members,
    the geographic dispersion of class members, the ability to iden-
    18
    tify future claimants, and whether the claims are for injunctive
    relief or for damages.” In re Modafinil Antitrust Litig., 837
    F.3d at 250, 253. Plaintiffs argue that factors other than the
    numerosity of the class also support the District Court’s finding
    that joinder of class members would be impracticable. That
    may well be. But the District Court never exercised its broad
    discretion to consider these other Rule 23(a)(1) factors, and we
    are a court of review, so we decline to weigh these factors for
    the first time on appeal. On remand, however, the District
    Court remains free to consider plaintiffs’ arguments and decide
    whether joinder would be impracticable based on all the rele-
    vant factors. We do not decide whether plaintiffs may show
    that joinder would be impracticable on this record. We hold
    only that the numerosity evidence considered alone is not
    enough to satisfy Rule 23(a)(1).
    B
    A class may be certified only if “there are questions of
    law or fact common to the class.” Fed. R. Civ. P. 23(a)(2).
    “Commonality requires the plaintiff to demonstrate that the
    class members have suffered the same injury. This does not
    mean merely that they have all suffered a violation of the same
    provision of law.” Dukes, 
    564 U.S. at
    349–50 (citation and
    quotation marks omitted). Instead, the claims “must depend
    upon a common contention.” 
    Id. at 350
    . “That common con-
    tention, moreover, must be of such a nature that it is capable of
    classwide resolution—which means that determination of its
    truth or falsity will resolve an issue that is central to the validity
    of each one of the claims in one stroke.” 
    Id.
     This test ensures
    that the “claims can productively be litigated at once.” 
    Id.
    When deciding whether the class raises a common question,
    “the court cannot be bashful. It must resolve all factual or legal
    disputes relevant to class certification, even if they overlap
    19
    with the merits—including disputes touching on elements of
    the cause of action.” Marcus, 687 F.3d at 591 (quotation marks
    omitted).
    The District Court abused its discretion when finding
    commonality for two reasons. First, it misapplied the relevant
    standards and certified a geographically overbroad class. Sec-
    ond, as we explained in Steak ’n Shake, a broad term like
    “access barriers” does not give rise to a common injury under
    the ADA.
    1
    The District Court found commonality satisfied for a
    class consisting of all Ollie’s stores in the United States. The
    District Court reasoned that “[i]f Ollie’s policies and proce-
    dures do, in fact, cause access barriers to unlawfully restrict
    individuals with disabilities from obtaining their desired
    goods, then proposed members who endured violations have
    suffered the same injury, the resolution of which will resolve a
    central issue in one fell stroke.” Ollie’s, 
    2021 WL 1152981
    , at
    *7. “As a result,” the District Court concluded, “Plaintiffs have
    satisfied their burden of showing by a preponderance of the
    evidence that there are questions of law or fact common to the
    proposed class.” 
    Id.
     The conclusion does not follow from the
    premise.
    Before certifying the proposed class, the District Court
    must answer the very question it asked: whether plaintiffs have
    significant proof that Ollie’s corporate policies, procedures, or
    practices in fact cause discrimination by stores nationwide.
    Posing a hypothetical common question is not enough to sat-
    isfy plaintiffs’ burden of proof. There must be evidence the
    class proceeding will likely “produce a common answer.”
    20
    Dukes, 
    564 U.S. at 352
    . By failing to answer the commonality
    question, the District Court deferred plaintiffs’ need to show
    commonality.
    The District Court’s legal error is not harmless. Our
    review of the record shows that commonality is not met by a
    preponderance of the evidence for this nationwide class. It is
    not enough that Ollie’s has corporate policies and that some or
    all stores in Pennsylvania pay inadequate attention to aisle
    accessibility. Stitching together a corporate-wide class requires
    more.
    “Rule 23 requires more than allegations, initial evi-
    dence, or a threshold showing. It requires a showing that each
    of the Rule 23 requirements has been met by a preponderance
    of the evidence at the time of class certification.” Ferreras v.
    Am. Airlines, Inc., 
    946 F.3d 178
    , 184 (3d Cir. 2019). When
    proceeding on a corporate-wide basis, the Supreme Court has
    required proof of a policy or practice of discrimination before
    certifying a corporate-wide class. Dukes, 
    564 U.S. at 353
    .
    Without a corporate-wide policy that causes discrimination
    (including disparate impacts when relevant, as under Title
    VII), a plaintiff must have significant proof of a common mode
    of exercising discretion that “pervades the entire company,”
    not just stores in some states or regions of the country.
    Rodriguez v. Nat’l City Bank, 
    726 F.3d 372
    , 383–85 (3d Cir.
    2013) (quoting Dukes, 
    564 U.S. at 356
    ). There is no significant
    proof of either here.
    Like any large retailer, Ollie’s has several corporate pol-
    icies governing its stores. These include visual store standards
    governing the placement and marketing of goods, general
    safety, loss prevention, and maintenance policies, and a “Yes,
    I Can” program, requiring stores to retrieve goods for patrons
    21
    that have trouble accessing them. Ollie’s specifically requires
    stores to ensure wheelchairs can pass easily through aisles. So
    as in Dukes, Ollie’s “announced policy forbids” the discrimi-
    natory conduct alleged by the class—inaccessible interior
    aisles. Dukes, 
    564 U.S. at 353
    . Ollie’s, to be sure, allows local
    stores discretion when maintaining adequate paths of travel for
    wheelchairs. But that kind of discretionary decision-making “is
    just the opposite of a uniform . . . practice that would provide
    the commonality needed for a class action.” 
    Id. at 355
    . As the
    Supreme Court said in Dukes, allowing stores discretion is “a
    very common and presumptively reasonable way of doing
    business.” 
    Id.
     It is not evidence of a common corporate-wide
    injury.
    On appeal, plaintiffs focus on Ollie’s visual store stand-
    ards. They argue that the standards emphasize placing as much
    stock as possible on the sales floor. For example, they point out
    that photographs in the visual standards illustrate items stacked
    to the side of aisles as well as tight placement of clothing racks.
    Plaintiffs stress in their briefing that Ollie’s visual store stand-
    ards are “a plausible explanation,” a “plausible causal connec-
    tion,” or “a plausible, direct cause of the proliferation of alleg-
    edly discriminatory barriers.” Appellees’ Br. 15, 27. Perhaps.
    But plaintiffs must do more than assert a plausible causal
    explanation at this stage. They must show that the visual store
    standards are more likely than not a common cause of a failure
    to maintain accessible aisles across Ollie’s stores in the United
    States.
    They have not met that burden. There is no proof that
    the visual standards cause inaccessible aisles across all Ollie’s
    stores nationwide. The investigative record is limited to stores
    in Pennsylvania. On this record, we do not know whether the
    visual standards “may have resulted in” discrimination “in
    22
    some regions . . . but not at all in others.” Rodriguez, 726 F.3d
    at 385. Proceeding on a corporate-wide basis against a corpo-
    ration with over four hundred stores in twenty-nine states
    requires more than plausible allegations backed by
    Pennsylvania-only evidence.
    The only evidence from outside Pennsylvania is less
    than a dozen customer emails reporting inaccessible aisles.4
    Setting aside the potential inadmissibility of the emails, Dukes
    rejected “anecdotal evidence” as “too weak” to support a com-
    mon practice. Dukes, 
    564 U.S. at 358
    . Dukes involved 120
    employee affidavits, signed under penalty of perjury, sharing
    stories of employment discrimination by Wal-Mart supervi-
    sors. 
    Id.
     The Supreme Court said these affidavits proved noth-
    ing: “More than half of these reports are concentrated in only
    6 States (Alabama, California, Florida, Missouri, Texas, and
    Wisconsin); half of all States have only one or two anecdotes;
    and 14 States have no anecdotes about Wal–Mart’s operations
    at all.” 
    Id.
     The anecdotal evidence here is far weaker than in
    Dukes. Less than a dozen email anecdotes over four years, from
    a corporation with over four hundred stores in twenty-nine
    states and thousands of employees exercising discretion,
    “prove nothing at all.” 
    Id.
     at 358 n.9.
    The District Court abused its discretion by certifying a
    corporate-wide class on this record. We leave it to the District
    Court to decide whether a geographically narrower class lim-
    4
    As we noted earlier, at least one customer reportedly
    experienced clear aisles. Another customer complained about
    the same store in Monaca, Pennsylvania, that plaintiff Mullen
    visited.
    23
    ited to some or all Ollie’s stores in Pennsylvania would satisfy
    the commonality requirement.
    2
    The District Court also abused its discretion when find-
    ing commonality for a separate reason. The District Court cer-
    tified a class embracing all persons with qualified mobility dis-
    abilities who have “experienced access barriers in interior
    paths of travel.” Ollie’s, 
    2021 WL 1152981
    , at *8–9. That class
    definition conflicts with our decision in Steak ’n Shake. A class
    that includes any and all access barriers is overbroad.
    In Steak ’n Shake, the trial court certified a class con-
    sisting of persons with qualified disabilities who “encountered
    accessibility barriers at any Steak ’n Shake restaurant.” 897
    F.3d at 487–88. We reversed the trial court’s commonality
    finding for two independent reasons.
    First, the class representatives’ alleged injuries were
    based on excessively steep parking slopes, but the class was
    not limited to restaurant patrons who suffered an injury in a
    parking lot. Id. at 489–90. Second, and more relevant here,
    even if the class definition were limited to parking facilities,
    we observed, “the wide variety of [ADA] regulations . . . reveal
    that there are still various types of ADA violations that could
    occur specifically in a parking facility.” Id. at 490. Access bar-
    riers could include excessively steep parking lots but could also
    include inadequate signs. Id. “The wide variety of potential
    ADA violations captured in the broad class definition,” we
    held, meant that the claims could not be litigated together all at
    once. Id.
    24
    The class definition here similarly applies to any
    “access barriers.” Ollie’s, 
    2021 WL 1152981
    , at *9. Plaintiffs
    argue that Steak ’n Shake is distinguishable because the class
    is limited to access barriers in interior paths of travel, not every
    part of a store, but that entirely ignores our second reason for
    finding no commonality. In Steak ’n Shake, we warned against
    the broad term “accessibility barriers,” as it sweeps in a broad
    array of potential claims with little in common. The same is
    true here. Some “access barriers” are fixtures, like pillars, fixed
    tables, or aisle shelves. There is no evidence those types of
    fixed barriers result from any common policy or employee
    practice. Plaintiffs have not shown that Ollie’s has any central-
    ized blueprint or policy that requires stores to build narrow
    aisles or place pillars, tables, and shelving in the middle of the
    way. Cf. Colorado Cross Disability Coal. v. Abercrombie &
    Fitch Co., 
    765 F.3d 1205
    , 1216–17 (10th Cir. 2014) (porch
    design common to all 231 stores involved raised common
    question). Without evidence of a centralized store blueprint,
    we cannot say claims against those types of access barriers in
    interior paths of travel can be productively litigated together.
    On appeal, plaintiffs focus their argument on movable
    barriers like merchandising, clothing racks, inventory carts,
    and the like. Plaintiffs mainly argue that Ollie’s stores violate
    their obligation to maintain 36-inch-wide accessible aisles by
    recurringly placing merchandising in the way. But that is not
    the class the District Court certified. At plaintiffs’ request, the
    District Court certified a class that applies to any kind of access
    barrier in interior paths of travel, not just merchandising wares
    blocking accessible aisles. We cannot cure the overbreadth of
    the class definition on appeal. We leave it to the District Court
    to decide whether a narrower class limited to particular mer-
    chandising wares or particular merchandising display practices
    25
    blocking interior aisles could satisfy the commonality require-
    ment.
    *      *       *
    Plaintiffs have failed to clear the first two hurdles of
    Rule 23(a). We will vacate and remand. We need not decide
    whether the remaining requirements of Rule 23 were satisfied.
    On remand, however, the District Court should clarify what
    classwide legal theory or theories of liability plaintiffs are pur-
    suing and determine whether each is suitable for classwide
    proof and common relief. As we have explained, trial courts
    must include in the certification order or opinion “(1) a readily
    discernible, clear, and precise statement of the parameters
    defining the class or classes to be certified, and (2) a readily
    discernible, clear, and complete list of the claims, issues or
    defenses to be treated on a class basis.” Steak ’n Shake, 897
    F.3d at 488 n.21. Trial courts must then “determine what ele-
    ments plaintiffs would have to prove under that theory to reach
    a finding of liability and relief, and then assess whether this
    proof can be made within the parameters of Rule 23.” Hohider
    v. United Parcel Serv., Inc., 
    574 F.3d 169
    , 197 (3d Cir. 2009).
    And under Rule 23(b)(2), the provision under which plaintiffs
    here seek class certification, trial courts must explain how
    classwide relief would be appropriate for each legal injury.
    “Rule 23(b)(2) applies only when a single injunction or declar-
    atory judgment would provide relief to each member of the
    class. It does not authorize class certification when each indi-
    vidual class member would be entitled to a different injunction
    or declaratory judgment against the defendant.” Dukes, 
    564 U.S. at 360
    .
    There are significant cohesion concerns with some of
    the theories of classwide relief advocated by plaintiffs. For
    26
    example, to the extent plaintiffs seek removal of “architectural
    barriers” in Ollie’s existing facilities, liability turns on a variety
    of individualized factors, including “the nature and cost of” the
    steps needed to remove each barrier. 
    42 U.S.C. § 12181
    (9)(A).
    Common proof and common relief relevant to that theory may
    prove elusive. On remand, the District Court must address
    these differing ADA standards and rules to determine whether
    common proof and common relief would be available for each
    distinct claim raised by the putative class.
    27
    PORTER, Circuit Judge, concurring.
    Today, we sidestep one of the principal legal issues
    raised by this appeal: whether the Federal Rules of Evidence
    apply to fact evidence introduced in support of class certifica-
    tion. Respectfully, I see no reason to duck the question. The
    issue is properly presented and adequately briefed. The District
    Court may still need to answer this question on remand. And
    courts are divided. By our indecision, we prolong needless
    uncertainty in an important area of the law, and we undermine
    the uniformity required by the Federal Rules of Evidence. I
    would prefer to end any lingering uncertainty now, by holding
    that statutory text and precedent require applying the Federal
    Rules of Evidence before certifying a class under Rule 23.
    I
    As the Supreme Court has emphasized, “Rule 23 does
    not set forth a mere pleading standard. A party seeking class
    certification must affirmatively demonstrate his compliance
    with the Rule—that is, he must be prepared to prove that there
    are in fact sufficiently numerous parties, common questions of
    law or fact, etc.” Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. v. Dukes, 
    564 U.S. 338
    ,
    350 (2011). “This calls for a rigorous analysis that usually
    requires courts to make factual findings and legal conclusions
    that overlap the underlying merits of the suit.” Mielo v. Steak
    ‘n Shake Operations, Inc., 
    897 F.3d 467
    , 482 (3d Cir. 2018).
    In Blood Reagents, we held rigorous analysis means
    “that a plaintiff cannot rely on challenged expert testimony . . .
    to demonstrate conformity with Rule 23 unless the plaintiff
    also demonstrates, and the trial court finds, that the expert tes-
    timony satisfies the standard set out in Daubert.” In re Blood
    Reagents Antitrust Litig., 
    783 F.3d 183
    , 187 (3d Cir. 2015). We
    rejected the trial court’s acceptance of evidence that “could
    evolve” into admissible form later. 
    Id. at 186
    . Daubert, of
    course, is based on Federal Rule of Evidence 702. See Daubert
    v. Merrell Dow Pharms., Inc., 
    509 U.S. 579
    , 589–92 (1993).
    So, under Blood Reagents, expert evidence used to certify a
    class action must be admissible under Federal Rule of
    Evidence 702.
    We have never addressed whether fact evidence, rather
    than expert opinion, must likewise be admissible. The District
    Court rejected Ollie’s hearsay objection to the customer ser-
    vice emails by holding that non-expert evidence used to certify
    a class need not be admissible. See Allen v. Ollie’s Bargain
    Outlet, Inc., No. 2:19-CV-281, 
    2021 WL 1152981
    , at *5 n.5
    (W.D. Pa. Mar. 26, 2021). That conclusion conflicts with the
    Federal Rules of Evidence.
    The Federal Rules of Evidence are an exercise of legis-
    lative authority, so we read the rules “as we would any statute.”
    Daubert, 
    509 U.S. at 587
    . “The specific courts and proceedings
    to which the rules apply, along with exceptions, are set out in
    Rule 1101.” Fed. R. Evid. 101(a). Rule 1101 says that the rules
    apply to “United States district courts” and in “civil cases and
    proceedings.” Fed. R. Evid. 1101(a), (b). That means all civil
    cases and proceedings unless an exception applies.
    Rule 1101 makes three exceptions, but as the Seventh
    Circuit has noted, Rule 23 proceedings are “not among the pro-
    ceedings excepted.” Mars Steel Corp. v. Cont’l Bank N.A., 
    880 F.2d 928
    , 938 (7th Cir. 1989) (en banc) (holding that Rule
    23(e) fairness hearings are not exempt). The first two excep-
    tions apply to determinations “on a preliminary question of fact
    governing admissibility” and “grand-jury proceedings,” so
    they are irrelevant. Fed. R. Evid. 1101(d)(1), (2). A third and
    2
    broader exception applies to “miscellaneous proceedings such
    as: extradition or rendition; issuing an arrest warrant, criminal
    summons, or search warrant; a preliminary examination in a
    criminal case; sentencing; granting or revoking probation or
    supervised release; and considering whether to release on bail
    or otherwise.” Fed. R. Evid. 1101(d)(3). No civil proceedings
    are listed in the miscellaneous-proceedings exception.
    While the list is not exclusive, in context, the miscella-
    neous-proceedings exception is best read as limited to closely
    analogous collateral proceedings, like hearings to transfer a
    juvenile delinquent for prosecution as an adult. See Gov’t of
    Virgin Islands in Interest of A.M., 
    34 F.3d 153
    , 161–62 (3d Cir.
    1994) (allowing hearsay in a juvenile transfer hearing because
    the hearing was analogous to a preliminary examination in a
    criminal case). Otherwise, the exception would swallow the
    rule. Even if the exception may be extended to some ordinary
    civil proceedings, class certification proceedings are not
    closely analogous to any of the listed “miscellaneous proceed-
    ings,” so context suggests they do not fall under this exception,
    much like Rule 23(e) hearings. The conclusion is clear: Class
    certification proceedings are not exempt from the rules of evi-
    dence. See Anderson Living Tr. v. WPX Energy Prod., LLC,
    
    306 F.R.D. 312
    , 378 n.39 (D.N.M. 2015) (“The similarity of a
    class certification hearing to a trial suggests that a class certifi-
    cation hearing is not a ‘miscellaneous proceeding such as’ a
    hearing on sentencing, extradition, preliminary examination,
    probation violation, or setting bail.”).
    Our decision in Blood Reagents, moreover, prevents us
    from dispensing with the Federal Rules of Evidence. The
    District Court distinguished Blood Reagents as involving
    expert evidence. Ollie’s, 
    2021 WL 1152981
    , at *5 n.5. But for
    purposes of this question there is no principled basis for distin-
    3
    guishing between fact and expert evidence. Nothing in the
    rules of evidence allows us to selectively apply them. On the
    contrary, Federal Rule of Evidence 1101 says that “[t]hese
    rules”—meaning all rules, including hearsay rules—apply to
    civil proceedings generally. Fed. R. Evid. 1101(a), (b).
    No hearsay exception applies to Rule 23 proceedings
    either. Hearsay is generally inadmissible unless allowed by
    rules adopted by the Supreme Court or statute. Fed. R. Evid.
    802. Several rules of civil procedure permit proof by affidavit
    instead of live testimony, allowing modest exceptions to the
    hearsay rule. See, e.g., Fed. R. Civ. P. 4(l), 32(a)(1)(B), 65(b).
    One general exception is Federal Rule of Civil Procedure
    43(c). That rule allows affidavits “[w]hen a motion relies on
    facts outside the record.” Fed. R. Civ. P. 43(c); see also 
    28 U.S.C. § 1746
     (permitting the use of declarations instead). But
    while Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 43(c) allows considera-
    ble flexibility in avoiding the live testimony required by the
    hearsay rule, it does not allow simply attaching hearsay—like
    the customer complaints—to a motion. That is what happened
    here.
    In short, “simple logic indicates,” and statutory text
    confirms, that Rule 23 is not satisfied when the “evidence prof-
    fered would not be admissible as proof of anything.” Behrend
    v. Comcast Corp., 
    655 F.3d 182
    , 215 n.18 (3d Cir. 2011)
    (Jordan, J., concurring in the judgment and dissenting in part),
    rev’d, 
    569 U.S. 27
     (2013). Rigorous analysis and statutory text
    demand nothing less than admissible evidence at the time of
    certification.
    4
    II
    Overlooking Federal Rule of Evidence 1101, several
    circuits have held that the rules of evidence do not apply to
    class certification proceedings. The first circuit to openly adopt
    this approach was the Eighth Circuit. See In re Zurn Pex
    Plumbing Prod. Liab. Litig., 
    644 F.3d 604
    , 611–14 (8th Cir.
    2011). In Zurn, the Eighth Circuit affirmed a trial court’s
    watered-down Daubert analysis, rejecting the defendants’
    argument that evidence under Rule 23 must “ultimately be
    admissible at trial.” 
    Id. at 611
    . Judge Gruender dissented. 
    Id.
     at
    626–30. The Ninth Circuit followed some years later. In the
    Ninth Circuit, “[i]nadmissibility alone is not a proper basis to
    reject evidence submitted in support of class certification.” Sali
    v. Corona Reg’l Med. Ctr., 
    909 F.3d 996
    , 1004 (9th Cir.
    2018).1 A trial court “may consider whether the plaintiff’s
    proof is, or will likely lead to, admissible evidence.” 
    Id. at 1006
    . “But admissibility must not be dispositive. Instead, an
    inquiry into the evidence’s ultimate admissibility should go to
    the weight that evidence is given at the class certification
    stage.” 
    Id.
     The Sixth Circuit has recently joined in part. It has
    held, “as have the Eighth and Ninth Circuits, that . . . ‘eviden-
    tiary proof’ need not amount to admissible evidence, at least
    with respect to nonexpert evidence.” Lyngaas v. Curaden AG,
    
    992 F.3d 412
    , 428–29 (6th Cir. 2021).
    Several circuits disagree with some or all of this. The
    First Circuit has rejected inadmissible hearsay evidence to sup-
    port standing for class members, reasoning that “class certifi-
    1
    But see Dukes v. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc., 
    603 F.3d 571
    , 639–
    40 (9th Cir. 2010) (Ikuta, J., dissenting) (arguing that
    inadmissible expert testimony cannot be used to meet Rule 23),
    rev’d, 
    564 U.S. 338
     (2011).
    5
    cation provides no occasion for jettisoning the rules of evi-
    dence and procedure, the Seventh Amendment, or the dictate
    of the Rules Enabling Act.” In re Asacol Antitrust Litig., 
    907 F.3d 42
    , 53 (1st Cir. 2018). That same logic would require
    applying the Federal Rules of Evidence to support class certi-
    fication. The Fifth Circuit has held that “findings must be made
    based on adequate admissible evidence to justify class certifi-
    cation.” Unger v. Amedisys Inc., 
    401 F.3d 316
    , 319 (5th Cir.
    2005).2 At least two circuits have held, as we did in Blood
    Reagents, that expert testimony must be admissible under
    Daubert at the class certification stage. See Messner v.
    Northshore Univ. HealthSystem, 
    669 F.3d 802
    , 812–13 (7th
    Cir. 2012); Prantil v. Arkema Inc., 
    986 F.3d 570
    , 575–76 (5th
    Cir. 2021) (“[I]f an expert’s opinion would not be admissible
    at trial, it should not pave the way for certifying a proposed
    class.”).
    I agree with the First and Fifth Circuits: Evidence used
    to certify a class must be admissible. The Sixth, Eighth, and
    Ninth Circuits overlook Federal Rule of Evidence 1101 and the
    rigorous analysis required by precedent. The various argu-
    ments they marshal in support of dispensing with the rules of
    evidence are unpersuasive. I will address each argument in
    turn.
    2
    The Sixth Circuit dismissed Unger’s admissibility
    requirement as dictum. Lyngaas v. Curaden AG, 
    992 F.3d 412
    ,
    430 (6th Cir. 2021). But the Fifth Circuit has relied on Unger
    to require admissible evidence. Prantil v. Arkema Inc., 
    986 F.3d 570
    , 575–76 & n.18 (5th Cir. 2021).
    6
    A
    First, these circuits point to Rule 23(c)’s requirement
    that class actions be certified at “an early practicable time after
    a person sues or is sued as a class representative.” Sali, 909
    F.3d at 1004 (quoting Fed. R. Civ. P. 23(c)(1)(A)). The need
    for speed, these courts reason, weighs against applying the
    Federal Rules of Evidence. That is unpersuasive. This rule was
    amended in 2003 to abrogate the certify-first-ask-questions-
    later practice followed in some circuits. In re Hydrogen
    Peroxide Antitrust Litig., 
    552 F.3d 305
    , 318–19 (3d Cir. 2008).
    Before 2003, Rule 23 said the class must be certified “as soon
    as practicable after commencement of an action.” 
    Id. at 318
    .
    The change to “an early practicable time” was meant to encour-
    age rigorous compliance with the requirements of Rule 23
    before certifying a class. 
    Id.
     Under the current rule, “class cer-
    tifications are no longer conditional,” so a trial court “should
    delay certifying a class until it is satisfied that all Rule 23
    requirements have been met.” Zurn, 
    644 F.3d at 629
    (Gruender, J., dissenting). Requiring that evidence be admissi-
    ble does not conflict with this open-ended rule. If anything, the
    2003 amendment suggests trial courts should not defer admis-
    sibility rulings relevant to certification until trial. See, e.g., Sali,
    909 F.3d at 1006 (deferring admissibility in tension with 2003
    amendment).
    B
    Second, these circuits assert that an order certifying a
    class is merely “tentative” and “preliminary,” as “[a]n order
    that grants or denies class certification may be altered or
    amended before final judgment.” Id. at 1004 (quoting Fed. R.
    Civ. P. 23(c)(1)(C)). Because class certification orders are not
    technically final, “common sense,” they say, suggests “the for-
    7
    mal strictures of trial” should not apply at the certification
    stage, including the Federal Rules of Evidence. Id. Otherwise,
    they argue, class certification proceedings would turn into
    evidentiary shooting matches. Id. For legal support, these cir-
    cuits lean on the Supreme Court’s statement that in class pro-
    ceedings, “a preliminary determination of the merits may result
    in substantial prejudice to a defendant, since of necessity [a
    class proceeding] is not accompanied by the traditional rules
    and procedures applicable to civil trials.” Eisen v. Carlisle &
    Jacquelin, 
    417 U.S. 156
    , 178 (1974), quoted in Zurn, 
    644 F.3d at
    613–14. There are many problems with this line of
    argument.
    For one, that snippet of Eisen preceded the 2003 amend-
    ments to Rule 23 and has since been repudiated as dictum. The
    relevant part of Eisen held only that class representatives could
    not shift the cost of providing class-member notice to defend-
    ants by showing the class was likely to prevail on the merits.
    Eisen, 
    417 U.S. at
    177–78. In Dukes, the Supreme Court said
    that Eisen’s general warning against preliminary determina-
    tions of the merits is “the purest dictum and is contradicted by
    our other cases.” 
    564 U.S. at
    351 n.6. Eisen’s related statement
    about “traditional rules and procedures” is dictum too. For
    good measure, Dukes also expressed “doubt” at the trial court’s
    conclusion that Daubert did not apply when certifying a class.
    
    Id. at 354
    . One could even say that “the Supreme Court has
    expressed disapproval of the position taken by” the Sixth,
    Eighth, and Ninth Circuits. Zurn, 
    644 F.3d at 627
     (Gruender,
    J., dissenting); see also Behrend, 
    655 F.3d at
    215 n.18 (Jordan,
    J., concurring in the judgment and dissenting in part) (noting
    that “it is implicit” in Dukes that Daubert applies). But even if
    it has not, after the 2003 amendments and Dukes, Eisen’s cryp-
    8
    tic dictum about “traditional rules and procedures” does not
    support dispensing with the rules of evidence.
    For another, Rule 23 certification orders are not “tenta-
    tive” in any practical sense. Trial courts cannot make “tenta-
    tive” Rule 23 findings. “When courts harbor doubt as to
    whether a plaintiff has carried her burden under Rule 23, the
    class should not be certified.” Steak ’n Shake, 897 F.3d at 483.
    Under our precedent, “it is no longer accurate—however true
    it might have been in the past—that class certification hearings
    are preliminary or conditional in the sense that a judge is going
    to go back and reconsider his or her class certification order.”
    Linda S. Mullenix, Putting Proponents to Their Proof:
    Evidentiary Rules at Class Certification, 
    82 Geo. Wash. L. Rev. 606
    , 636 (2014). “Although a judge subsequently may
    revise a class certification order, this practice has become
    extremely rare.” 
    Id. at 637
    . In all but exceptional cases, an or-
    der certifying a class will be the trial court’s final word on the
    matter.
    For similar reasons, the rhetoric about evidentiary
    shooting matches is also behind the times. Class certification
    proceedings are already evidentiary shooting matches, some-
    times requiring extensive evidentiary hearings. 
    Id.
     at 639–41.
    The question is whether the shooting match will be played
    according to the uniform rules enacted by Congress, no rules
    at all, or only the rules judges really like. The correct answer is
    the rules enacted by Congress.
    Characterizing Rule 23 orders certifying a class action
    as “tentative” and “preliminary,” moreover, trivializes the con-
    sequences of certifying a class. “As a practical matter, the cer-
    tification decision is typically a game-changer, often the whole
    ballgame, for plaintiffs and plaintiffs’ counsel.” Marcus v.
    9
    BMW of N. Am., LLC, 
    687 F.3d 583
    , 591 n.2. Rule 23(b)(2)
    class certifications compel unnamed persons to join a lawsuit
    they do not control, litigated by lawyers they did not choose,
    where a judgment binds them, win or lose. Cooper v. Fed.
    Reserve Bank of Richmond, 
    467 U.S. 867
    , 874 (1984); Dukes,
    
    564 U.S. at 362
    . Defendants also face significant practical con-
    sequences. Once a class is certified, the risk of “devastating
    loss” often leads to “in terrorem” class settlements even for
    “questionable claims.” AT&T Mobility LLC v. Concepcion,
    
    563 U.S. 333
    , 350 (2011); see also Shady Grove Orthopedic
    Assocs., P.A. v. Allstate Ins. Co., 
    559 U.S. 393
    , 445 n.3 (2010)
    (Ginsburg, J., dissenting) (“A court’s decision to certify a class
    . . . places pressure on the defendant to settle even unmeritori-
    ous claims.”); Newton v. Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner &
    Smith, Inc., 
    259 F.3d 154
    , 165 (3d Cir. 2001) (“[C]ertifying the
    class may place unwarranted or hydraulic pressure to settle on
    defendants.”). And plaintiffs, too, may be denied meaningful
    redress if defendants are allowed to defeat class actions by lard-
    ing the record with inadmissible hearsay, unauthenticated rec-
    ords, or unreliable opinion evidence. The search for truth
    encouraged by the Federal Rules of Evidence cuts both ways.
    C
    The Eighth Circuit has also suggested that because class
    certification findings are made by a judge, not a jury, there is
    less reason to apply Daubert rigorously, and presumably other
    rules of evidence too. Zurn, 
    644 F.3d at 613
    . But this distinc-
    tion finds no support in the Federal Rules of Evidence or our
    caselaw. The Federal Rules of Evidence require applying
    Daubert faithfully in bench trials too. UGI Sunbury LLC v. A
    Permanent Easement for 1.7575 Acres, 
    949 F.3d 825
    , 832–33
    (3d Cir. 2020). Some rules of evidence, to be sure, expressly
    reference jury trials and do not apply to bench trials. Rule 403,
    10
    for example, allows a trial court to “exclude relevant evidence
    if its probative value is substantially outweighed by a danger
    of . . . misleading the jury.” Fed. R. Evid. 403. That rule is
    irrelevant in a bench trial. But hearsay is generally inadmissi-
    ble no matter who the trier of fact happens to be. Fed. R. Evid.
    802. So, as with Daubert, there is no “bench trial” exception to
    hearsay.
    *      *       *
    Reasonable minds may disagree over the wisdom or
    practicality of applying the Federal Rules of Evidence, or hear-
    say rules specifically, in Rule 23 certification proceedings. But
    those policy judgments are for the Supreme Court and
    Congress to make. See 
    28 U.S.C. § 2072
    (a). We must apply the
    rules of evidence faithfully within their proper scope. That
    scope includes Rule 23 proceedings.
    11