Overman, Gerald v. Astrue, Michael J. ( 2008 )


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  •                             In the
    United States Court of Appeals
    For the Seventh Circuit
    No. 07-2968
    G ERALD O VERMAN,
    Plaintiff-Appellant,
    v.
    M ICHAEL J. A STRUE,
    Defendant-Appellee.
    Appeal from the United States District Court
    for the Western District of Wisconsin.
    No. 06 C 484—Barbara B. Crabb, Chief Judge.
    A RGUED JULY 9, 2008—D ECIDED O CTOBER 7, 2008
    Before P OSNER, S YKES, and T INDER, Circuit Judges.
    P ER C URIAM. Gerald Overman applied for Social Security
    disability insurance benefits and supplemental security
    income payments, claiming that he was unable to work
    due primarily to fatigue related to Graves’ disease, anemia,
    and vision problems. After conducting a hearing an
    Administrative Law Judge (“ALJ”) denied benefits,
    relying on testimony by a vocational expert (“VE”) to find
    that, though Overman could not return to his past work,
    he could perform a significant number of other available
    2                                                No. 07-2968
    jobs. On review by the district court, the court found that
    substantial evidence supported the ALJ’s conclusion. In
    this appeal, Overman challenges the ALJ’s reliance on the
    VE’s testimony. We will discuss the record that was
    before the ALJ prior to addressing those contentions.
    Overman, currently 58 years old, is a high-school gradu-
    ate. For fifteen years before the alleged onset of disability,
    he worked at a resort. His duties included maintaining
    and repairing the golf course irrigation system, setting
    up for conventions, and performing other small repairs. In
    2003 Overman began to feel overheated, shaky, and
    fatigued on a regular basis, and he experienced a rapid,
    unexplained weight loss of more than 70 pounds. In
    November of that year, Overman—who already suffered
    from diabetes, hypertension, glaucoma, cataracts, and
    severe myopia—quit his job because he was too fatigued
    to continue working.
    Overman reported his symptoms to his treating physi-
    cian, Dr. John McKevett, and was referred to an endocri-
    nologist who diagnosed Overman with Graves’ disease, a
    form of hyperthyroidism that may cause weight loss,
    tremulousness, and weakness, among other symptoms.
    S TEDMAN’S M EDICAL D ICTIONARY 557, 928 (28th ed. 2006).
    Graves’ disease is chronic, but the symptoms are treat-
    able. See MayoClinic.com, Graves’ Disease (July 6,
    2007), http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/graves-disease/
    DS00181/DSECTION= treatments-and-drugs. He also
    was diagnosed with anemia, which frequently causes
    fatigue and lethargy in its sufferer. STEDMAN’S M EDICAL
    D ICTIONARY at 78.
    No. 07-2968                                              3
    Overman began radioactive iodine therapy for his
    Graves’ disease in late December 2003. He filed his ap-
    plication for benefits shortly thereafter. The therapy
    initially alleviated some of Overman’s symptoms, but
    then instead of producing too much thyroid hormone,
    Overman began producing too little, a condition called
    hypothyroidism, which (like hyperthyroidism) often
    causes fatigue and muscle weakness. S TEDMAN’S M EDICAL
    D ICTIONARY at 939, 1277. (Roughly 70% of patients treated
    with radioactive iodine experience this overcorrection of
    thyroid function, after which they usually require lifelong
    thyroid hormone replacement therapy.) Endocrinologists
    tested Overman’s thyroid function every four to eight
    weeks throughout 2004 and sent the results to Dr.
    McKevett, who prescribed a thyroid-hormone replace-
    ment drug called Synthroid. After taking Synthroid for
    two weeks, Overman told Dr. McKevett that he still tired
    easily but his energy level was “slowly but surely im-
    proving.” At the same visit, the doctor noted “moderate
    generalized weakness,” but stated that this was also
    “slowly improving.” Dr. McKevett’s records reflect that
    Overman’s dosage of Synthroid was adjusted several
    times over the next 18 months. But by the end of that
    period, Dr. McKevett still had not determined the
    correct dosage and attributed Overman’s continued fatigue
    to “not being conditioned” to the medication. As for
    Overman’s anemia, the records do not mention any
    treatment for that ailment, and Overman did not know
    at the time of his hearing whether he was still anemic.
    Overman also submitted records from his optometrist
    and opthalmologist concerning his vision problems. The
    4                                               No. 07-2968
    opthalmologist reported that Overman suffered from
    “pathologic myopia,” glaucoma, and cataracts. He said that
    Overman’s visual acuity of 20/80 made “any visual task
    difficult” and his eyesight would continue to deteriorate.
    His optometrist reported that Overman had “open angle”
    glaucoma and myopic degeneration resulting in “poor
    vision in general” and “almost no night vision.” Both
    doctors agreed that Overman’s vision would likely
    worsen over time. The medical records show that Over-
    man’s diabetes and hypertension were, for the most part,
    well-controlled during the alleged period of disability.
    At the hearing before the ALJ in November 2005, Over-
    man testified that he was still taking Synthroid for his
    thyroid condition but that his doctor had not yet deter-
    mined the correct dosage. He also testified that he took
    medication for his diabetes but was not insulin-dependent.
    He said that he was nearsighted, wore glasses, and could
    watch TV as long as he was within five feet of the set.
    Regarding his daily activities, Overman testified that he
    tries to do things around the house but finds it very
    tiring and that, during the six months prior to the hearing,
    if he sat down in a chair for more than five minutes he
    would fall asleep. Overman testified that he could feed
    and bathe himself and that his performance of household
    chores did not significantly change after the onset of
    disability in November 2003. He said that he could drive
    during the day but not after dark as he had “no night
    vision.” He also said that he could walk a half mile on
    flat terrain as long as it was not too cold out, but that in
    the cold his extremities go numb due to his diabetes. He
    said that the numbness had worsened over time and was
    No. 07-2968                                               5
    not always associated with cold temperatures. Finally,
    Overman testified that his resort maintenance job had
    been unskilled and primarily required making small
    repairs to door knobs, light switch covers, and the like. He
    left the job in November 2003 after fainting at work. He
    said that he would not be able to return to that job be-
    cause he could not tolerate working outdoors in hot
    weather and because he was routinely required to lift
    more weight than Dr. McKevett recommended.
    Dr. Julianne Koski, a family practitioner and agency
    consultant, also testified at the hearing. Having reviewed
    Overman’s medical records, Dr. Koski concurred that
    Overman suffered from Graves’ disease, severe myopia
    with glaucoma, diabetes, and hypertension. She testified
    that it was difficult to determine Overman’s corrected
    visual acuity from his medical records, but she guessed
    that it was no better than 20/100 when corrected with
    glasses. She also concurred that he suffered from cataracts,
    which, in her opinion, were not yet “visually significant.”
    Dr. Koski opined that none of Overman’s impairments
    met or equaled Social Security medical listings, so she
    analyzed how, in her view, his ailments impacted his
    residual functional capacity. She said that Overman could
    not perform work requiring fine discrimination or signifi-
    cant reading, should stay away from hazards and extreme
    temperatures, should avoid all ropes and scaffolding
    and climb ladders only occasionally, should never lift
    more than fifty pounds but could lift twenty pounds “on
    a more frequent basis,” and should not do any repetitive
    over-the-shoulder lifting. She did not recommend any
    limitations on Overman’s ability to sit or stand.
    6                                              No. 07-2968
    The last witness at the hearing was the vocational expert
    (“VE”), Kenneth Ogren. The ALJ asked the VE, hypotheti-
    cally, whether a person with a residual functional capacity
    as described by Dr. Koski—including the limitations on
    reading, fine discrimination, and extreme tempera-
    tures—could do any of Overman’s past relevant work. The
    VE answered that the extreme-temperatures limitation
    ruled out Overman’s prior work, much of which was
    performed outdoors. The ALJ then asked, hypothetically,
    whether there were other jobs in the region that a person
    with those same limitations could perform. The VE an-
    swered that such a person could perform two occupations:
    “hand packager, and that is at DOT 920.587-018. . . . [and]
    Rack room worker, 920.665-014.” A “hand packager”
    manually packages materials and products, and a “rack-
    room worker” tends machines that fill metal kegs with beer
    in the keg-filling (or racking) room of a brewery; both
    positions require a “medium” level of exertion. See D EP’T
    OF L ABOR , D ICTIONARY OF O CCUPATIONAL T ITLES 932-33
    (4th ed. rev. 1991), available at http://www.oalj.dol.gov/
    libdot.htm. According to the VE, there were 1,200 and 800
    such jobs, respectively, available in Minnesota. (The dis-
    trict court rejected Overman’s argument that the VE
    should have used a Wisconsin rather than a Minnesota
    database to evaluate the number of available jobs, but
    Overman does not renew that argument on appeal.)
    Finally, the ALJ asked the VE whether his testimony was
    consistent with the Dictionary of Occupational Titles
    (“DOT”), and the VE answered “yes.”
    Overman’s counsel then cross-examined the VE as
    follows:
    No. 07-2968                                              7
    Counsel: And then if you assume a person couldn’t
    do, couldn’t do close up work because of finger
    problems, hand problems, that sort of thing, would
    that change your opinion on this?
    VE: Yes.
    Counsel: How would it change it?
    VE: It would eliminate the two jobs.
    Counsel: Pardon me?
    VE: It would eliminate both occupations.
    Counsel: And why is that?
    VE: Basically you have to have at least some vision
    to do the packaging I’m talking about and some
    vision to hang articles on racks.
    Counsel: And as I understand the doctor, she was
    saying he could do things with gross discrimina-
    tion, but he couldn’t do it with the fine discrim-
    ination?
    VE: Yes. That’s the way I understood it too.
    Counsel: And as I understand it, that means, and
    correct me if I’m wrong, he can’t work up close
    because he can’t really see his hands, is that it?
    VE: I guess the way I interpreted that is that he
    couldn’t do like small assemblies and things like
    that, smaller type work.
    Counsel: Uh-huh. But we’re talking about packag-
    ing of objects into a box then versus actual fine
    manipulation?
    8                                                No. 07-2968
    VE: Yes.
    Counsel: Then I guess it’s a matter of degree, isn’t
    it.
    VE: Yes.
    Counsel: So those may well be eliminated as well?
    VE: The smaller parts, yes.
    Counsel: By the fact that he’s sitting there trying to
    do things close up, right?
    VE: Exactly.
    Counsel: All right. And I suppose I would have to,
    that would also get in to the issue of what’s on the
    labeling and how you would package it and how it
    would have to be packaged, that sort of thing.
    VE: If he had to read to do it, I would say those
    jobs would be eliminated, yes.
    Counsel: So then there would be no jobs in the
    national economy, if you assume he couldn’t do it
    because it was close work?
    VE: Yeah, I eliminated those possibilities already.
    In determining that Overman was not disabled, the ALJ
    performed the usual five-step sequential analysis. See
    
    20 C.F.R. §§ 404.1520
    , 416.920. According to the ALJ,
    Overman had not engaged in substantial work since his
    claimed onset date, and he was severely impaired, but
    none of his impairments were severe enough to presump-
    tively preclude gainful work. See 
    id.
     § 404, subpt. P, app. 1.
    The ALJ then found that Overman could perform work
    No. 07-2968                                                 9
    of “medium” exertion with limitations virtually identical
    to those described at the hearing by Dr. Koski, including
    gross but not fine discrimination, no significant reading
    tasks, and no extremes of cold or heat. The ALJ concluded
    that these limitations would preclude Overman’s past
    relevant work. However, the ALJ found that Overman
    was not disabled at step five because he could work as
    a hand packager or a rack-room worker. The ALJ stated
    that, in reaching this conclusion, he gave “great weight” to
    the VE’s testimony, which the ALJ found “credible,
    persuasive, and consistent with the record as a whole.” The
    ALJ also noted that the VE had confirmed that his testi-
    mony was consistent with the DOT. As for the VE’s
    testimony on cross-examination, the ALJ did not
    interpret his statements to suggest that Overman’s limita-
    tions would prevent him from working as a hand packager
    or rack-room worker. Rather, under the ALJ’s reading
    of the testimony, the VE simply explained that he had
    previously eliminated from consideration jobs requiring
    the type of small assembly work and reading that
    Overman is unable to do before arriving at the conclusion
    that there were some 2,000 jobs in Minnesota available
    to Overman despite his limitations.
    The Appeals Council denied Overman’s request for
    review, making the ALJ’s ruling the Commissioner’s final
    decision. See, e.g., Schmidt v. Astrue, 
    496 F.3d 833
    , 841 (7th
    Cir. 2007). Overman sought review in the district court,
    see 
    42 U.S.C. § 405
    (g), and, as noted, the district court
    upheld the ALJ’s decision. And now we address the
    claims of error that Overman raises in this appeal.
    10                                               No. 07-2968
    We review the ALJ’s decision deferentially, upholding it
    if it is supported by substantial evidence. Skinner v. Astrue,
    
    478 F.3d 836
    , 841 (7th Cir. 2007). “Evidence is ‘substantial’
    if it is sufficient for a reasonable person to accept as
    adequate to support the decision.” Jens v. Barnhart, 
    347 F.3d 209
    , 212 (7th Cir. 2003) (internal quotation marks and
    citation omitted). “Although this standard is generous, it
    is not entirely uncritical,” and the case must be remanded
    if the decision lacks evidentiary support. Steele v. Barnhart,
    
    290 F.3d 936
    , 940 (7th Cir. 2002). We view the record as a
    whole but do not reweigh the evidence or substitute
    our judgment for that of the ALJ. Schmidt v. Apfel, 
    201 F.3d 970
    , 972 (7th Cir. 2000).
    First, the VE’s testimony that Overman could work as a
    hand packager or rack-room worker conflicts in several
    respects with descriptions of those positions in the DOT.
    Overman, according to the ALJ, must avoid extremes
    of cold and heat, and his vision problems preclude both
    fine discrimination and significant reading. A hand
    packager, however, must deal with extreme heat “fre-
    quently” (between one-third to two-thirds of the work-
    day), and “near acuity”—clarity of vision at 20 inches or
    less—is required “occasionally” (up to one-third of the
    workday). See D EP’T OF L ABOR, S ELECTED C HARACTERISTICS
    OF O CCUPATIONS D EFINED IN THE R EVISED D ICTIONARY
    OF O CCUPATIONAL T ITLES 316, C-3 to C-4, D-1 (1993). For a
    rack-room worker, near acuity is required frequently. See
    id. at 316, C-3 to C-4. Both positions require workers to
    read at a rate of 95-120 words per minute and to be able to
    compare similarities and differences between words
    and between series of numbers. See D EP’T OF L ABOR,
    No. 07-2968                                              11
    D ICTIONARY OF O CCUPATIONAL T ITLES at 932-33, 1010-11.
    The Commissioner concedes on appeal that the VE’s
    testimony conflicts with the DOT; the issue is whether
    that conflict necessitates remand.
    Overman argues that (1) the ALJ violated Social Security
    Ruling 00-4p by failing to require the VE to explain the
    conflict, and (2) the VE’s flawed testimony cannot satisfy
    the Commissioner’s burden at step five to prove that
    Overman can perform other jobs despite his limitations.
    Under SSR 00-4p, an ALJ has an “affirmative responsibil-
    ity” to ask whether a vocational expert’s evidence “con-
    flicts with information provided in the DOT” before
    relying on that evidence to support a determination of
    nondisability. SSR 00-4p at 4; see Massachi v. Astrue, 
    486 F.3d 1149
    , 1152-53 (9th Cir. 2007); Prochaska v. Barnhart,
    
    454 F.3d 731
    , 735 (7th Cir. 2006). Here, the ALJ satisfied
    this first step by asking the VE if his testimony was con-
    sistent with the DOT; the VE answered (wrongly, as it
    turns out) that it was. If evidence from a VE “appears to
    conflict with the DOT,” SSR 00-4p requires further inquiry:
    an ALJ must obtain “a reasonable explanation for the
    apparent conflict.” SSR 00-4p at 5. It is here, Overman
    argues, that the ALJ failed in his duty. Even though his
    counsel never identified any apparent conflicts at the time
    of the hearing, Overman argues that the discrepancies
    between the DOT definitions and the VE’s testimony were
    so obvious that the ALJ’s duty to investigate was triggered.
    The Commissioner counters that the conceded conflicts
    were not obvious and that Overman forfeited any argu-
    ment under SSR 00-4p because he did not raise it at the
    12                                                No. 07-2968
    hearing. For the latter proposition the Commissioner cites
    Donahue v. Barnhart, 
    279 F.3d 441
    , 446-47 (7th Cir. 2002). But
    we held more recently that because SSR 00-4p imposes
    an affirmative duty on the ALJ to inquire into and resolve
    apparent conflicts, a claimant’s failure to raise a possible
    violation of SSR 00-4p at the administrative level does not
    forfeit the right to argue later that a violation occurred. See
    Prochaska, 
    454 F.3d at 735
     (calling language to the contrary
    in Donahue dicta). The Commissioner attempts to distin-
    guish Prochaska by pointing out that in that case the ALJ
    violated SSR 00-4p at the first step by never asking the
    VE whether his testimony was consistent with the DOT.
    But Prochaska makes clear that the ALJ’s affirmative duty
    extends beyond merely asking the VE whether his testi-
    mony is consistent with the DOT; the ALJ also must “elicit
    a reasonable explanation for any discrepancy.” Prochaska,
    
    454 F.3d at 735
     (quoting Haddock v. Apfel, 
    196 F.3d 1084
    ,
    1087 (10th Cir. 1999)). Overman was denied the oppor-
    tunity to appeal at the administrative level, and he raised
    the SSR 00-4p issue before the district court, so he has not
    forfeited the argument. See Prochaska, 
    454 F.3d at 735
    .
    Still, the failure of Overman’s counsel to identify the
    conflicts at the time of the hearing is not without conse-
    quence. Overman now has to argue that the conflicts were
    obvious enough that the ALJ should have picked up on
    them without any assistance, for SSR 00-4p requires only
    that the ALJ investigate and resolve apparent conflicts
    between the VE’s evidence and the DOT. SSR 00-4p;
    see also, e.g., Prochaska, 
    454 F.3d at 735
     (“If the
    VE’s . . . evidence appears to conflict with the Dictionary of
    Occupational Titles, the adjudicator will obtain a reason-
    No. 07-2968                                             13
    able explanation for the apparent conflict.” (emphasis
    added)).
    Overman identifies two “apparent conflicts” in the VE’s
    testimony that, in his view, the ALJ was required to
    investigate further. After testifying on direct that
    Overman could perform two occupations listed in the
    DOT despite his limited vision and reading ability, the
    VE contradicted himself on cross-examination, first by
    saying that an inability to do “close up work” would
    eliminate both jobs and second by saying that Overman
    would be unable to work as a hand packager if that
    position required reading. The Commissioner argues
    that Overman’s counsel elicited these seemingly contra-
    dictory statements by imposing alternate, more restrictive
    hypothetical limitations than the ALJ had on direct.
    According to the Commissioner, counsel’s question about
    “close up work” introduced a limitation that Overman
    lacked full use of his hands, which was not included
    when the ALJ questioned the VE. But that argument is
    undermined by the fact that the VE discussed visual
    acuity rather than manipulative ability when he testified
    that a limitation on “close up work” would eliminate both
    jobs “because you have to have at least some vision.” The
    Commissioner likewise attempts to reconcile the VE’s
    statement that a reading limitation would preclude work
    as a hand packager by suggesting that “the ability to
    engage in significant reading was specifically excluded
    from the ALJ’s hypothetical,” but that is incorrect. The
    ALJ specified “no significant amount of reading tasks” in
    his hypothetical questions on direct. The conflicts between
    the VE’s supposedly DOT-based testimony on direct and
    14                                              No. 07-2968
    his statements on cross-examination, therefore, should
    have been apparent to the ALJ. And it appears that per-
    haps they were apparent, if not at the time of the hearing,
    at least by the time the ALJ produced his ruling, in which
    he attempts to rescue the testimony by interpreting the
    statement that certain jobs would be eliminated as a
    description of jobs the VE had previously eliminated
    before reaching his conclusion that 2,000 jobs remained.
    Whether that is or is not a plausible reading of the testi-
    mony, the ALJ’s attempt to explain away the seemingly
    contradictory statements is tantamount to an acknowl-
    edgment that there were apparent discrepancies. The ALJ’s
    reliance upon the VE’s testimony without developing the
    record and obtaining a “reasonable explanation” for the
    conflicts violated SSR 00-4p.
    Even if this was not the case, Overman also persuasively
    argues that the ALJ’s ruling is not supported by substantial
    evidence because it is premised on the VE’s “flawed”
    testimony. The Commissioner bears the step-five burden
    of establishing that the claimant can perform other work
    that “exists in significant numbers in the national econ-
    omy.” 
    20 C.F.R. § 404.1560
    (c)(2); see also Britton v. Astrue,
    
    521 F.3d 799
    , 803 (7th Cir. 2008); Briscoe ex rel. Taylor v.
    Barnhart, 
    425 F.3d 345
    , 352 (7th Cir. 2005). A VE’s testimony
    can satisfy this burden only if that testimony is reliable.
    Britton, 
    521 F.3d at 803
    ; McKinnie v. Barnhart, 
    368 F.3d 907
    ,
    910 (7th Cir. 2004); Donahue, 
    279 F.3d at 446
    . “A finding
    based on unreliable VE testimony is equivalent to a
    finding that is not supported by substantial evidence
    and must be vacated.” Britton, 
    521 F.3d at 803
    .
    No. 07-2968                                               15
    The Commissioner argues that the ALJ was entitled to
    rely on the VE’s testimony in spite of the later-identified
    conflict with the DOT because an ALJ is permitted to give
    VE testimony precedence over the DOT. In an appropriate
    case this proposition would be correct, but it is not well
    founded here. An ALJ is free to accept testimony from a
    VE that conflicts with the DOT when, for example, the
    VE’s experience and knowledge in a given situation
    exceeds that of the DOT’s authors, Donahue, 
    279 F.3d at 446
    , or when the VE’s contrary testimony is based on
    information in “other reliable publications,” SSR 00-4p. But
    here the VE said that his testimony was consistent with
    the DOT, so the Commissioner’s implicit suggestion
    that the VE had some hidden knowledge that would
    explain away the conflicts with the DOT is frivolous.
    Finally, the Commissioner argues that the ALJ’s reliance
    upon the VE’s testimony is not reversible error because
    an ALJ may rely on a VE’s “bottom-line” or “purely
    conclusional” testimony, so long as the data and reasoning
    underlying the opinion are “available on demand.”
    Donahue, 
    279 F.3d at 446
    ; see also Barrett v. Barnhart, 
    355 F.3d 1065
    , 1067 (7th Cir. 2004). In both Donahue and
    Barrett, we ruled that an ALJ may rely on imperfect VE
    testimony if a claimant does not question the basis for
    the testimony at the time of the hearing. See Donahue,
    
    279 F.3d at 446
     (ruling that ALJ may rely on unchallenged
    VE testimony that conflicted with DOT); Barrett, 
    355 F.3d at 1067
     (ruling that ALJ may rely on unchallenged,
    perfunctory VE testimony). According to the Commis-
    sioner, the ALJ in this case was entitled to rely on the VE’s
    “unchallenged” and “uncontradicted” testimony because
    Overman never questioned its foundation.
    16                                              No. 07-2968
    But Overman did challenge the VE’s testimony. Unlike in
    Donahue and Barrett, Overman’s counsel cross-examined
    the VE and elicited statements that seriously called into
    question the reliability of the VE’s bottom-line conclusions.
    Perhaps Overman’s inquiry into the basis for the VE’s
    testimony could have been more thorough. But a disability
    adjudication is “a hybrid between the adversarial and
    inquisitorial models,” Donahue, 
    279 F.3d at 446
    , and if the
    basis of the VE’s testimony is questioned at the hearing,
    “then the ALJ should make an inquiry . . . to find out
    whether the purported expert’s conclusions are reliable,”
    id.; see also McKinnie, 
    368 F.3d at 911
    . No such inquiry was
    performed here. Instead, the ALJ unquestioningly relied
    on the VE’s bottom line, a bottom line later determined to
    be in irreconcilable conflict with the DOT. There may be
    additional work of which Overman is capable of perform-
    ing, but the record does not support the conclusion that
    he can perform either of the two positions identified by
    the VE.
    The ALJ based his finding that Overman could perform
    other work entirely on the VE’s erroneous testimony, and
    that testimony is not “sufficient for a reasonable person
    to accept as adequate to support the decision.” Jens, 
    347 F.3d at 212
    . Consequently, the ALJ’s disability determina-
    tion is not supported by substantial evidence. See Boone v.
    Barnhart, 
    353 F.3d 203
    , 206, 208-09 (3d Cir. 2003) (ruling
    that VE’s testimony does not by itself provide substantial
    evidence of claimant’s ability to perform significant
    number of other jobs when testimony conflicts with DOT
    and neither VE nor ALJ acknowledge or explain conflict);
    Carey v. Apfel, 
    230 F.3d 131
    , 146-47 (5th Cir. 2000) (noting
    No. 07-2968                                            17
    that VE’s “erroneous characterization of the exertional
    level or skills required to perform a particular job calls
    into question both the probative value and reliability of
    the expert’s testimony” and finding that ALJ may rely
    upon such evidence only if “the record reflects an ade-
    quate basis for doing so”). Because the ALJ’s ruling was
    premised entirely on testimony that conflicted with the
    DOT and otherwise was vague and confusing, this case
    must be remanded for further proceedings.
    Conclusion
    For the reasons stated above, the judgment of the
    district court is R EVERSED and the case is R EMANDED for
    further consideration by the agency.
    10-7-08