United States v. Kerry Smith , 770 F.3d 628 ( 2014 )


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  •                                In the
    United States Court of Appeals
    For the Seventh Circuit
    No. 13-1375
    UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
    Plaintiff-Appellee,
    v.
    KERRY L. SMITH,
    Defendant-Appellant.
    Appeal from the United States District Court
    for the Southern District of Illinois.
    No. 4:07-cr-40038-jpg-1 — J. Phil Gilbert, Judge.
    ARGUED FEBRUARY 19, 2014 — DECIDED OCTOBER 24, 2014
    Before POSNER, RIPPLE and KANNE, Circuit Judges.
    RIPPLE, Circuit Judge. Kerry L. Smith was indicted for
    conspiring to distribute marijuana, in violation of 21 U.S.C.
    §§ 841 and 846, purchasing a vehicle with currency derived
    from an unlawful activity, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1957;
    concealing information with the intent to defraud the Social
    2                                                         No. 13-1375
    Security Administration, in violation of 42 U.S.C. § 1383(a)(3);1
    and making false statements on applications for food stamps,
    in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1001(a)(2). He signed a proffer
    agreement and later pleaded guilty to each of those charges.
    After a sentencing and forfeiture hearing, the district court
    imposed a forfeiture order that included the forfeiture of eight
    parcels of real property owned by Mr. Smith. The Government
    claimed these parcels were proceeds from his illegal activities.
    Mr. Smith timely appealed the district court’s forfeiture
    ruling; he contended that, in determining that the properties
    were subject to forfeiture, the district court had relied improp-
    erly on statements that he had made during proffer discus-
    sions. We now affirm the district court’s judgment. The district
    court did not err in admitting testimony about Mr. Smith’s
    proffer statements. Furthermore, its determination that the
    eight properties were subject to forfeiture as proceeds of his
    drug trafficking was supported by a preponderance of the
    evidence. In the alternative, the properties are clearly subject
    to forfeiture as substitute assets.
    1
    The Government appears mistakenly to have cited 42 U.S.C. § 1383(a)(3)
    in Count Three of the Superseding Indictment instead of 42 U.S.C.
    § 1320a-7b(a)(3). Neither party contested the validity of the charge.
    No. 13-1375                                                     3
    I
    BACKGROUND
    A.
    Before pleading guilty to the crimes charged in the indict-
    ment, Mr. Smith participated in two proffer interviews on May
    21 and July 2, 2007. Prior to the beginning of those interviews,
    he signed a proffer letter. His counsel also signed the letter.
    The proffer letter set forth the limits on how the Government
    could use any information that Mr. Smith provided in the
    proffer interviews. The letter first stated that “no statements or
    information provided by [Mr. Smith] … will be used against
    [him] in any criminal case during the government’s case in
    chief.”2 It explicitly noted, “That is, however, the
    only limitation on the use the government may make of
    [Mr. Smith’s] statements.”3
    The remainder of the letter discussed various situations in
    which the Government could use Mr. Smith’s proffer state-
    ments. It specifically informed Mr. Smith and his counsel that
    the Government could make derivative use of any information
    revealed during the proffer sessions:
    [T]he government may make derivative use of any
    information revealed during the proffer. The gov-
    ernment may pursue any investigative leads sug-
    gested by … information received … . Thus, should
    [Mr. Smith] proceed to trial, the government will not
    2
    R.71-1 at 1.
    3
    
    Id. (emphasis in
    original).
    4                                                       No. 13-1375
    have to prove that the evidence it would introduce
    at trial is not derived from any statements made by
    or other information received from [Mr. Smith]
    during the … proffer[.][4]
    The proffer letter also stated that information he provided
    could be used against him at trial if he took a position inconsis-
    tent with his proffer statements:
    [I]f … [Mr. Smith] were to testify contrary to the
    substance of his proffer statement, or through any
    manner whatsoever, either personally or through an
    attorney or other representative, … present a posi-
    tion inconsistent with the information provided in
    his proffer statement, the government may use
    either as evidence in chief, or rebuttal evidence, any
    statements made or other information provided by
    [him]. This provision is necessary to assure that no
    court or jury is misled by receiving information or
    implications materially different from that provided
    by [Mr. Smith]. In addition, we want to emphasize
    that the above-mentioned examples are not totally
    inclusive of the uses the government may make of
    … [the] proffer or discussion.[5]
    The letter further provided that Mr. Smith’s proffer statements
    could be presented to the district court during sentencing:
    4
    
    Id. 5 Id.
    at 2.
    No. 13-1375                                                                  5
    [T]he government has agreed that no … information
    provided by [Mr. Smith] during the … discussion
    will be used against [him] in any criminal case
    during the government’s case in chief. The govern-
    ment will, however, be free to provide any such informa-
    tion to any United States District Court in the event [he]
    either pleads guilty or is found guilty … .
    [N]o self-incriminating information … will be used
    to enhance the Offense Level against [Mr. Smith]
    except as provided in [Section 1B1.8 of the Sentenc-
    ing Guidelines]. The government may, however, use
    any … information provided by [him] to rebut
    evidence or arguments at sentencing materially
    different from any statements made or other infor-
    mation provided by [him] during the … discus-
    sion.[6]
    The proffer letter did not recite Federal Rule of Criminal
    Procedure 11(f) (“Rule 11”), which states that “[t]he admissibil-
    ity or inadmissibility of … a plea discussion[] and any related
    statement is governed by Federal Rule of Evidence 410”(“Rule
    410”).7
    6
    
    Id. (emphasis added).
    7
    Federal Rule of Evidence 410 states:
    (a) Prohibited Uses. In a civil or criminal
    case, evidence of the following is not admissible
    against the defendant who made the plea or
    participated in the plea discussions:
    (continued...)
    6                                                                 No. 13-1375
    During the first proffer session, Mr. Smith admitted that he
    had trafficked in marijuana and described the quantities and
    amounts of money typically involved in his transactions.
    7
    (...continued)
    (1) a guilty plea that was later
    withdrawn;
    (2) a nolo contendere plea;
    (3) a statement made during a
    proceeding on either of those pleas under
    Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 11 or
    a comparable state procedure; or
    (4) a statement made during plea
    discussions with an attorney for the pros-
    ecuting authority if the discussions did
    not result in a guilty plea or they resulted
    in a later-withdrawn guilty plea.
    (b) Exceptions. The court may admit a
    statement described in Rule 410(a)(3) or (4):
    (1) in any proceeding in which
    another statement made during the same
    plea or plea discussions has been intro-
    duced, if in fairness the statements ought
    to be considered together; or
    (2) in a criminal proceeding for
    perjury or false statement, if the defen-
    dant made the statement under oath, on
    the record, and with counsel present.
    No. 13-1375                                                   7
    During the second proffer session, Mr. Smith admitted that he
    had used proceeds from his drug trafficking to purchase real
    estate and vehicles. Specifically, Mr. Smith told the Govern-
    ment that he had used drug proceeds to purchase real property
    at 317 Birch Lane, 309 S. Crestview, 605 E. Snider and 1808
    W. Freeman in Carbondale, Illinois. He also admitted that his
    purchases of real property at 501 E. Snider and 1005 E. Cindy
    in Carbondale, Illinois, were tied indirectly to drug proceeds
    because those properties were financed in part from sales or
    loans from property that had been purchased with drug
    proceeds.
    After the proffer sessions, Mr. Smith moved for a substitu-
    tion of counsel. He wanted to replace his attorney, John Rogers,
    with new counsel, Beau Brindley. The district court permitted
    Rogers to withdraw, but denied the request from Mr. Brindley
    to substitute as Mr. Smith’s counsel and to continue an
    impending trial date. The district court then appointed
    replacement counsel for Mr. Smith because of his indigence.
    He subsequently pleaded guilty to all of the charges in the
    superseding indictment, and the district court entered a
    judgment of conviction against him.
    We overturned that conviction because, by denying the
    motion to substitute Mr. Brindley and to continue the trial
    date, the district court had denied Mr. Smith his Sixth Amend-
    ment right to choose his counsel. United States v. Smith, 
    618 F.3d 657
    , 665–67 (7th Cir. 2010). We remanded with instruc-
    tions to allow Mr. Smith to withdraw his initial guilty plea.
    Mr. Smith then retained Mr. Brindley as his counsel and
    withdrew his earlier plea.
    8                                                            No. 13-1375
    Under the guidance of his preferred counsel, Mr. Brindley,
    Mr. Smith later entered a new guilty plea to all of the charges
    in the Government’s superseding indictment. He contested,
    however, Count Six of that indictment, which sought forfeiture
    of property that the Government alleged was tainted by
    Mr. Smith’s criminal activity. Specifically, in Count Six, the
    Government charged that “any and all property constituting or
    derived from any proceeds [Mr. Smith] obtained directly or
    indirectly as a result of” his crimes was subject to forfeiture;8 it
    also specified eight parcels of real property that Mr. Smith
    owned in Carbondale, Illinois, as subject to forfeiture.9 Those
    properties included five properties that Mr. Smith had men-
    tioned during the proffer sessions (317 Birch Lane, 309
    S. Crestview, 1808 W. Freeman, 501 E. Snider and 1005
    E. Cindy), as well as three other properties that he had not
    mentioned (111 S. Dixon, 403 N. University and 313 Crestview
    Lane).
    At the forfeiture and sentencing hearing, the parties
    stipulated that Mr. Smith was responsible for the sale of 399
    kilograms of marijuana, sold at $900 per pound. They also
    agreed that Mr. Smith had two other sources of income during
    the relevant time: disability income from Social Security and
    rental income from real estate properties that he owned. The
    8
    We note that revised Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 32.2(a)
    specifically provides that the Government’s intention to seek forfeiture of
    property as part of any sentence “should not be designated as a count of the
    indictment or information.”
    9
    R.22 at 4–7.
    No. 13-1375                                                     9
    Government presented evidence that the disputed properties
    were connected to Mr. Smith’s illicit drug activities.
    Agent Robert Anderson of the IRS Criminal Investigation
    Division testified during the first session of the hearing on
    January 17, 2013. He recounted that he had investigated
    Mr. Smith’s finances and that Mr. Smith had received far more
    income during the relevant period than he had reported to the
    IRS. In support of his testimony, Agent Anderson relied on
    records from various financial institutions to reach his conclu-
    sions about Mr. Smith’s income. Agent Anderson testified that
    Mr. Smith’s expenditures during the relevant period had far
    exceeded what Mr. Smith could have paid from his Social
    Security disability benefits and rental income unconnected to
    his criminal activity.
    Agent Anderson also testified:
    Through testimony that we have from
    Kerry Smith, he advised us that he commingled both
    his drug proceeds and other proceeds from the sale
    of property and money from other sources into his
    bank accounts.[10]
    Defense counsel objected to Agent Anderson’s reference to
    testimony from Mr. Smith “for foundation[,] for [the] time,
    [and the] place, when this testimony supposedly happened.”11
    10
    R.261 at 25.
    11
    
    Id. 10 No.
    13-1375
    The district court ruled that defense counsel could
    cross-examine the witness on those points.12
    On cross-examination,                  defense       counsel       asked
    Agent Anderson:
    Now, you did not specifically observe where
    Smith got the cash payments he might have made
    on any property in the list that you went through,
    did you?
    ….
    You can’t identify a specific drug transaction that
    happened that can then be connected to any specific
    payment he made on any property, can you?[13]
    Agent Anderson admitted that he could not. On redirect
    examination, the Government then questioned
    12
    Defense counsel also objected to Agent Anderson’s testimony that,
    “[b]ased on interviews we conducted throughout the investigation,” he had
    learned that certain checks were purchased by another individual on
    Mr. Smith’s behalf. 
    Id. at 33–34.
    Defense counsel objected that the testimony
    was inadmissible hearsay, but the district court responded that hearsay was
    acceptable at a sentencing hearing. Defense counsel stated his belief that
    hearsay was not admissible at a forfeiture hearing. The Government offered
    to submit cases holding that forfeiture is “a preponderance [of the evidence
    standard] like the rest of sentencing” and that “hearsay or any other reliable
    evidence can be received at the forfeiture hearing.” 
    Id. at 34.
    The district
    court reviewed the cases; defense counsel then objected that the testimony
    was not reliable evidence within the meaning of the standard. The parties
    eventually agreed that the district court could determine the reliability of
    the testimony about the checks based on a full interview report.
    13
    
    Id. at 69.
    No. 13-1375                                                    11
    Agent Anderson about whether Mr. Smith had stated in his
    proffer interview that he had used drug proceeds to purchase
    the 1808 W. Freeman property. Agent Anderson responded
    affirmatively.
    Defense counsel objected to the redirect testimony about
    what Mr. Smith had said in his proffer interviews. He main-
    tained that nothing from the proffer interviews was admissible
    for any purpose. He contended that the proffer letter’s terms,
    which permitted the use of proffer statements if defense
    counsel took a position contrary to the substance of those
    statements, did not control the admissibility of the proffer
    statements because Mr. Smith had a right under Rule 11 and
    Rule 410 not to have statements made as part of plea negotia-
    tions used against him—a right he had not waived in a
    knowing and voluntary manner. In defense counsel’s view,
    absent such a knowing and voluntary waiver by Mr. Smith,
    everything from the proffer sessions had to be excluded under
    Rule 11. Defense counsel asserted:
    Rule 11(f) indicates that the admissibility of any plea
    discussion is governed by the language from Rule
    410 of the Federal Rules of Evidence. And if you go
    back to Federal Rule 410, 410 says any statement
    made by a defendant through a representative of the
    Government for purposes of plea negotiation cannot
    be used against him.
    Rule 11 adopts that with respect to plea discus-
    sions generally and says[] … that’s governed by
    Rule 410 in terms of admissibility.
    12                                                     No. 13-1375
    It’s our position that that means the statements
    [from the proffer session] couldn’t be used unless
    there’s a waiver. The proffer letter constitutes a
    waiver [only] if it’s knowing and voluntary.[14]
    In response to questions from the district court, defense
    counsel added that his argument was premised on Federal
    Rule of Evidence 410(a)(4), which provides that statements
    made during plea discussions are not admissible as evidence
    against the defendant in a civil or criminal case “if the discus-
    sions did not result in a guilty plea or they resulted in a later-
    withdrawn guilty plea.” Defense counsel argued that this
    provision applied to Mr. Smith’s proffer statements because he
    had withdrawn his first guilty plea. In his view, the proffer
    discussions did not result in a plea because we overturned
    Mr. Smith’s initial conviction on Sixth Amendment grounds
    and allowed him to withdraw his first guilty plea. Defense
    counsel asserted that Mr. Smith’s second guilty plea “was not
    pursuant to those [proffer] negotiations.”15
    Counsel argued that Mr. Smith not only had a right not to
    have the proffer statements used against him but that the
    proffer letter was inadequate to show a valid waiver of that
    right. Counsel described his objection:
    The Government’s proffer letter … does not in the
    view of the defense advise Mr. Smith of the preexist-
    ing right he had under Rule 11 and under Rule 410
    14
    
    Id. at 77.
    15
    
    Id. at 84.
    No. 13-1375                                                       13
    not to have statements he made for purposes of
    negotiating pleas to the Government used against
    him.
    If that right is not made known to him by way of
    the contents of the document, and the document
    does not establish that he knew that he had a right,
    the document cannot consequently establish that he
    voluntarily waived that right.
    Therefore, it is our position that the proffer letter
    does not constitute a voluntary waiver of the Rule 11
    and Rule 410 protections[] … . And as a result, the
    statement should not be admissible. …
    ….
    … My objection is based on the fact that the letter
    itself and no evidence that the Government can
    provide indicates that Mr. Smith ever had knowl-
    edge that, before signing that, he had a right not to
    have these statements used at all, absent any agree-
    ment. … The letter doesn’t indicate that he knew
    about [that right] or waived it.[16]
    In short, defense counsel argued that (1) Rule 410, as
    incorporated by Rule 11(f), applied at the forfeiture and
    sentencing stage; (2) Mr. Smith’s proffer statements were made
    during plea discussions that resulted in a later-withdrawn
    guilty plea within the meaning of Rule 410(a)(4); (3) the proffer
    statements therefore were barred by Rule 410 absent a waiver;
    16
    
    Id. at 73–74.
    14                                                 No. 13-1375
    and (4) there was no knowing and voluntary waiver of
    Mr. Smith’s right not to have the statements admitted because
    the proffer letter does not memorialize any such waiver.
    The Government responded that the proffer information
    was admissible at the forfeiture and sentencing hearing. The
    Government further argued that, in any event, defense counsel
    had not properly raised the argument that Mr. Smith’s accep-
    tance of proffer terms was not knowing and voluntary. In this
    respect, the Government first submitted that it had been given
    “no notice” of defense counsel’s argument and that the
    argument was “not timely.”17 Turning to its principal point, the
    Government took issue with defense counsel’s contention that
    the Government must “put[] forth some affirmative evidence
    that [it had] advised the defendant of these rights.”18 It noted
    that Mr. Smith had been represented by counsel when he
    signed the letter and also urged that “the burden would be on
    the defendant to at least come forward and say[] … [that his
    attorney] never advised [him] of these things.”19
    The district court did not accept the Government’s prelimi-
    nary argument that defense counsel’s contentions were
    untimely. It then ruled that, under the terms of the proffer
    letter, the Government could use Mr. Smith’s proffer state-
    ments “that appear … from his position here and from the
    cross-examination of counsel [to] be contrary to” his proffer
    17
    
    Id. at 79,
    81.
    18
    
    Id. at 78.
    19
    
    Id. at 80.
    No. 13-1375                                                                15
    statements. 2 0 It further ruled that, through his
    cross-examination of Agent Anderson, defense counsel had
    opened the door to a discussion about whether Mr. Smith
    admitted to using drug proceeds for the disputed properties.
    Following the district court’s ruling, Agent Anderson
    testified further. He stated that Mr. Smith had said during the
    proffer sessions that several of his properties, including 309
    Crestview, 605 E. Snider and 1808 W. Freeman, were pur-
    chased at least in part with drug proceeds.
    B.
    At the hearing, the district court ruled that the properties
    were forfeitable under 21 U.S.C. § 853(a) as proceeds from
    Mr. Smith’s drug trafficking.21 The district court noted that
    Mr. Smith had two other sources of income during the relevant
    time: disability income from Social Security and rental income
    from real estate properties that he owned. The court first
    concluded that Mr. Smith’s disability income was insufficient
    to account for the purchase of the properties. It then concluded
    that Mr. Smith’s rental income was “ill-gotten gains from drug
    sale[s]” because it “was derived … from purchases … funded
    20
    
    Id. at 89.
    21
    The district court was required to find that the disputed properties were
    forfeitable by a preponderance of the evidence. United States v. Melendez, 
    401 F.3d 851
    , 856 (7th Cir. 2005).
    16                                                             No. 13-1375
    primarily from Smith’s drug proceeds.”22 Even if the rental
    income were legitimate, the district court further determined,
    “his legitimate income from both the [Social Security] and
    rental income would not be enough to justify his cash flow or
    the purchases that he made.”23 The district court noted that,
    under 21 U.S.C. § 853(d), there is a rebuttable presumption that
    Mr. Smith’s disputed properties were subject to forfeiture since
    they were acquired during or near the period of his criminal
    activity, and “there is no likely source for [them] other than the
    proceeds of the sale of his drugs.”24
    The district court imposed a forfeiture judgment of $790,020
    to reflect the admitted proceeds of Mr. Smith’s drug sales. The
    forfeiture judgment listed various property, including the eight
    parcels of real property at issue here, as forfeitable because
    they constituted or were derived from Mr. Smith’s marijuana
    proceeds. The district court’s forfeiture order also allowed the
    forfeiture of substitute assets to reach the $790,020 judgment.25
    22
    R.262 at 176.
    23
    
    Id. 24 Id.
    at 175. The parties do not dispute when the property was acquired.
    25
    The forfeiture order stated:
    A monetary forfeiture judgment is hereby entered
    in favor of the United States against Kerry Smith in the
    amount of $790,020.00. The net proceeds from the sale of
    the above-listed specific property items shall be credited
    towards the $790,020.00 judgment. The United States may,
    (continued...)
    No. 13-1375                                                                  17
    II
    DISCUSSION
    A.
    Mr. Smith presents us with a single issue—the legality of
    the forfeiture of eight particular properties.26 The Government
    claimed, and the district court found, that the properties were
    subject to forfeiture because they were purchased with funds
    derived from Mr. Smith’s illicit drug transactions. In the
    alternative, the Government argued that the properties were
    subject to forfeiture as substitute property.
    25
    (...continued)
    at its option, enforce said judgment as a forfeiture judg-
    ment with the ability to seek to forfeiture substitute assets;
    enforce said judgment as an ordinary monetary judgment
    in favor of the United States by any legal means; or enforce
    said judgment as a combination of the foregoing as long as
    the United States does not obtain double recovery in excess
    of the total amount of the judgment.
    The Court specifically finds that with respect to the
    $790,020.00 in drug proceeds, not all of the proceeds, as a
    result of the acts and omissions of the defendant, can be
    located upon the exercise of due diligence and that the
    forfeiture of substitute property pursuant to 21 U.S.C.
    § 853(p) is appropriate.
    R.246-1 at 5.
    26
    The district court had jurisdiction under 18 U.S.C. § 3231. This court has
    jurisdiction over this appeal under 28 U.S.C. § 1291.
    18                                                            No. 13-1375
    Criminal forfeiture is considered to be punishment and
    therefore is part of the sentencing process. Libretti v. United
    States, 
    516 U.S. 29
    , 39 (1995). The Government therefore has the
    ultimate burden of establishing the forfeitures by a preponder-
    ance of the evidence. United States v. Patel, 
    131 F.3d 1195
    , 1200
    (7th Cir. 1997). We review factual findings of the district court
    made in the course of adjudicating a forfeiture for clear error.
    United States v. Melendez, 
    401 F.3d 851
    , 856 (7th Cir. 2005).
    The forfeiture approved by the district court was calculated
    on the basis of Mr. Smith’s relevant conduct: He had sold 877.8
    pounds of marijuana at $900 per pound. Consequently, the
    district court entered an in personam judgment for $790,020.
    Mr. Smith does not dispute the correctness of this in personam
    judgment. What Mr. Smith does dispute is the district court’s
    decision to permit the Government to seize, pursuant to that
    forfeiture judgment, the eight properties specifically named in
    the forfeiture order. After our study of the record and briefs,
    and after hearing from counsel at oral argument, we conclude
    that Mr. Smith’s contention that these properties cannot be
    seized under the order must fail.
    1.
    We begin by examining in some detail Mr. Smith’s precise
    contention. As we have noted, Mr. Smith contests the district
    court’s decision that eight parcels of real property were subject
    to forfeiture as proceeds of his drug trafficking.27 In his view,
    27
    In his reply brief, Mr. Smith also contends for the first time that the
    (continued...)
    No. 13-1375                                                               19
    those parcels were tied to his illicit activities only by the
    statements that he made to the Government in his proffer
    interview, and, therefore, those proffer statements were
    improperly admitted in the forfeiture proceedings.
    It is also important to note the basis of Mr. Smith’s conten-
    tion that his proffer statements were improperly admitted. He
    does not claim that the district court erred in concluding that
    these statements were admissible under the terms of the
    proffer letter. Rather, he contends his statements were not
    admissible because there was insufficient evidence to establish
    that he knowingly and voluntarily had waived his alleged
    right under Rules 11 and 410. To show that he made a knowing
    and voluntary waiver, he contends, the Government must
    demonstrate that he was “informed of his pre-existing right to
    have such statements protected from disclosure”28 before he
    signed the proffer letter permitting disclosure in certain
    circumstances.
    Mr. Smith maintains that these proffer statements were the
    only evidence that his eight parcels of real property were
    purchased with drug trafficking proceeds and therefore were
    subject to forfeiture. He therefore submits that the Government
    cannot justify the forfeiture of these parcels under 21 U.S.C.
    § 853(a) as proceeds from or connected to illicit activity
    27
    (...continued)
    properties cannot be seized as substitute property because the district court
    treated them as proceeds. Reply Br. 2. We address that argument infra Part
    II.B.1.
    28
    Appellant’s Br. 6.
    20                                                 No. 13-1375
    without his proffer statements. In Mr. Smith’s view, the
    Government’s reliance on a “net worth” analysis under section
    853(d) of that statute is infirm. The net worth theory compares
    legitimate income to expenditures; excess expenditures are
    presumed to come from illegitimate sources. In order to apply
    this theory to his disputed properties, he notes, the court must
    accept the conclusion that his rental income was tainted
    because the rental properties were purchased with ill-gotten
    gains from his drug trafficking. That conclusion, he submits, is
    based on his improperly admitted proffer statements. Without
    admissible proof that the rental income was tainted, he
    contends, the Government cannot argue that there was no
    likely legitimate source for the funds used to purchase the
    properties disputed here.
    2.
    We first address the Government’s submission that
    Mr. Smith has waived the right to make these admissibility
    arguments on appeal by failing to raise those arguments in
    advance of the district court’s forfeiture and sentencing
    hearing. The Government had notified Mr. Smith of its
    intention to introduce his proffer statements in advance of the
    hearing. Mr. Smith did not object, however, until the hearing,
    when Agent Anderson testified about Mr. Smith’s proffer
    statements. In the Government’s view, his arguments were, by
    that point, untimely.
    Although the Government was not notified of Mr. Smith’s
    arguments before the hearing, the Government had adequate
    time to respond. The hearing was split into two sessions, one
    No. 13-1375                                                               21
    on January 17 and one on February 14, 2013. Defense counsel
    clearly laid out the objection during the first session. The
    Government therefore had time to prepare a response before
    the second session of the hearing. In any event, the district
    court considered and ruled on Mr. Smith’s argument without
    finding it to be waived. A district court “may, for good cause,
    allow a party to make a new objection at any time before
    sentence is imposed” during sentencing. Fed. R. Crim. P.
    32(i)(1)(D). Like the district court, we decline to hold that
    Mr. Smith waived his challenge to the admissibility of the
    proffer statements by not making it before the forfeiture and
    sentencing hearing, and we proceed to a substantive consider-
    ation of his arguments.
    3.
    Assuming for the moment that Mr. Smith’s reading of Rule
    11 and Rule 410 is correct, the record makes clear that he has
    waived, through his proffer letter, any right to rely on these
    rules. The provisions of Rule 11 and Rule 410 “are presump-
    tively waivable.” United States v. Mezzanatto, 
    513 U.S. 196
    , 201
    (1995). Indeed, the parties agree that a defendant may waive
    his right to prevent his statements from plea negotiations from
    being used against him. Accord United States v. Krilich, 
    159 F.3d 1020
    , 1024 (7th Cir. 1998) (citing Mezzanatto, 
    513 U.S. 196
    ).29
    29
    The Supreme Court has held explicitly that the waiver of a jury
    determination as to the forfeitability of property need not be included
    within the Rule 11 inquiry. See Libretti v. United States, 
    516 U.S. 29
    , 48–51
    (1995); see also Fed. R. Crim. P. 32.2(b), advisory committee’s note to the
    (continued...)
    22                                                    No. 13-1375
    Mr. Smith contends that he has not waived these rights
    because the Government had the burden of showing that his
    waiver was knowing and voluntary, and it did not carry that
    burden. We cannot accept that argument. The Supreme Court
    has held that “absent some affirmative indication that the [proffer]
    agreement was entered into unknowingly or involuntarily, an
    agreement to waive the exclusionary provisions of the
    plea-statement Rules is valid and enforceable.” 
    Mezzanatto, 513 U.S. at 210
    (emphasis added); see also 
    Libretti, 516 U.S. at 42
    (“We are unpersuaded that the Rule 11(f) inquiry is necessary
    to guarantee that a forfeiture agreement is knowing and
    voluntary.”). Consequently, signing a proffer letter waiving
    rights concerning the admissibility of a plea or statements
    made in conjunction with that plea is treated as a valid waiver
    of a defendant’s rights not to have proffer statements used
    against him. See United States v. Dortch, 
    5 F.3d 1056
    , 1068 (7th
    Cir. 1993) (“A defendant waives any objection to the use of his
    own proffer statements to impeach him at trial when he signs
    a proffer letter that specifically grants the government permis-
    sion to impeach him if he testifies inconsistently, and later
    proceeds to testify inconsistently at trial.”); United States v.
    Goodapple, 
    958 F.2d 1402
    , 1409 (7th Cir. 1992) (“[T]he easy
    answer to [the defendant’s] objections to [the Government’s]
    use [of his proffer statements] is that the objection was waived
    when he signed [the proffer letter].”); cf. 
    Mezzanatto, 513 U.S. at 211
    (noting that defendant “has never complained that he
    29
    (...continued)
    2000 adoption.
    No. 13-1375                                                                 23
    entered into the waiver agreement at issue unknowingly or
    involuntarily”).
    At the hearing, Mr. Smith failed to identify any evidentiary
    basis for the assertion that he unknowingly or involuntarily
    had entered into the proffer agreement. Indeed, defense
    counsel refused to state that John Rogers, Mr. Smith’s counsel
    when the proffer letter was signed, had not informed
    Mr. Smith of his rights.30 Furthermore, Mr. Smith declined to
    testify at the forfeiture and sentencing hearing. Consequently,
    Mr. Smith did not make a preliminary showing that his waiver
    was unknowing or involuntary. While raising the issue,
    defense counsel refused to identify any affirmative indications
    that Mr. Smith’s waiver of his rights was invalid. Mr. Smith
    had the opportunity at the hearing to raise any factual basis to
    suggest that his waiver of his rights by signing the proffer
    letter was not a knowing and voluntary decision. At oral
    argument in this court, he could point to no part of the record
    that supported his contention. He offered no more than
    criticism about the absence of more evidence from the Govern-
    ment. Speculation that he may not have known his rights,
    without more, is insufficient to raise a question about whether
    his waiver was knowing and voluntary.31
    30
    Defense counsel responded to an inquiry on whether he thought that
    Rogers had properly informed Mr. Smith of his rights, “I don’t think we can
    put that on the record as proof of any kind. I don’t think that’s appropri-
    ate.” R.261 at 81.
    31
    Contrary to Mr. Smith’s assertions, United States v. Robinson, 
    8 F.3d 418
    (7th Cir. 1993), does not govern the present case. In Robinson, the defendant
    (continued...)
    24                                                             No. 13-1375
    4.
    Lastly, assuming, for the sake of argument, that Mr. Smith
    had not waived the contention, we address, for the sake of
    completeness, whether Federal Rule of Evidence 410(a)(4)
    precludes the use of Agent Anderson’s testimony about his
    proffer statements at the forfeiture and sentencing hearing.
    That rule prohibits use of “a statement made during plea
    discussions … if the discussions did not result in a guilty plea
    or they resulted in a later-withdrawn guilty plea.” Fed. R. Evid.
    410(a)(1).32
    31
    (...continued)
    challenged a forfeiture order entered by the district court on the ground
    that he had not waived his right to have a jury determine factual issues
    related to forfeiture. We vacated the forfeiture order on that basis, noting
    repeatedly that there was no evidence in the record, such as “a signed
    waiver form,” that Robinson personally had waived his right. 
    Id. at 422.
    Here, by contrast, Mr. Smith personally signed the proffer letter, which
    explicitly stated that the Government only was prohibited from using his
    statements in its case in chief.
    32
    Mr. Smith contends that the withdrawal of his initial guilty plea
    following his initial appeal means that the proffer sessions “resulted in a
    later-withdrawn guilty plea” within the meaning of Rule 410(a)(4). He urges
    this view even though he pleaded guilty a second time after he had
    obtained his counsel of choice. Mr. Smith cites no authority to support his
    contention that a guilty plea which is withdrawn on remand and then
    followed by another guilty plea is the type of “later-withdrawn guilty plea”
    referenced in Rule 410(a)(4). In light of our determination that Mr. Smith
    has waived any reliance on these rules and, in any event, that the rules do
    not apply to a sentencing/forfeiture situation, we pretermit any further
    discussion of this issue since it is unnecessary to our resolution of the case.
    No. 13-1375                                                              25
    Mr. Smith relies exclusively on the text of the rule to
    support his argument. Specifically, he invites our attention to
    the plain wording of subsection (a)(4). The language of that
    subsection, read in context, simply will not bear the load that
    he asks it to carry.
    The most direct answer to Mr. Smith’s contention is that
    Rule 11 and Rule 410 do not govern the conduct of forfeiture
    proceedings. The Supreme Court has held that criminal
    forfeiture is “an element of the sentence imposed following
    conviction or[] … a plea of guilty.” 
    Libretti, 516 U.S. at 38
    –39
    (emphasis in original); see Fed. R. Crim. P. 32.2(b). In Libretti,
    the Court noted that “Congress plainly intended forfeiture of
    assets to operate as punishment for criminal conduct … not as
    a separate substantive offense” and that its precedents “have
    likewise characterized criminal forfeiture as an aspect of
    punishment imposed following conviction of a substantive
    criminal 
    offense.” 516 U.S. at 39
    . Mr. Smith’s forfeiture and
    sentencing hearing therefore are part of the sentencing phase
    of his case.
    The Federal Rules of Evidence are inapplicable at sentenc-
    ing.33 United States v. Gonzalez, 
    608 F.3d 1001
    , 1006 (7th Cir.
    2010) (citing Fed. R. Evid. 1101(d)(3)). Indeed, Mr. Smith
    admits that the Federal Rules of Evidence do not apply at the
    forfeiture and sentencing stage and that, consequently,
    33
    Because Mr. Smith waived his right to a jury trial, we are not confronted
    here with a situation where a jury must consider whether specific properties
    are forfeitable. See Fed. R. Crim. P. 32.2(b)(5). We therefore pretermit
    discussion about whether the Federal Rules of Evidence would apply in a
    forfeiture determination before a jury.
    26                                                           No. 13-1375
    Rule 410, on its own, does not apply to the forfeiture and
    sentencing hearing here. He contends, however, that because
    Rule 11 incorporates Rule 410’s provisions into the Federal
    Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rule 410 does apply at the
    sentencing phase. He points out that Rule 11, as part of the
    Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, applies during “all
    criminal proceedings” in federal court. Fed. R. Crim. P. 1(a)(1).
    By incorporating Rule 410, Mr. Smith argues, Rule 11 expands
    the applicability of Rule 410 beyond its normal scope such that
    its provisions apply during all criminal proceedings, including
    the forfeiture and sentencing hearing here.34
    The argument that Rule 410 applies during sentencing is
    unpersuasive. Rule 11 states that the admissibility of a plea, a
    plea discussion and any related statement “is governed by”
    Rule 410. Fed. R. Crim. Proc. 11(f). The obvious meaning of this
    provision is that, during proceedings governed by the Federal
    Rules of Evidence, Rule 410 governs the admissibility of
    utterances that a defendant might be expected to make during
    the plea process, the subject matter of Rule 11. The Federal
    Rules of Evidence, however, do not apply to sentencing. See Fed.
    R. Evid. 1101(d)(3). Accordingly, Rule 410 did not bar admis-
    sion of testimony about Mr. Smith’s proffer statements at the
    forfeiture and sentencing hearing.
    In sum, Rule 11 and Rule 410 are inapplicable; they pose no
    impediment to the admission of Mr. Smith’s statements during
    34
    See Appellant’s Br. 7 (“Rule 11(f)[] … incorporates [Rule 410] to all
    criminal proceedings … including sentencing hearings and criminal
    forfeiture trials, which are subject to the Rules of Criminal Procedure even
    if the Federal Rules of Evidence are not otherwise wholly applicable.”).
    No. 13-1375                                                    27
    the forfeiture hearing. Furthermore, since the statements were
    admitted during the forfeiture hearing, not during the Govern-
    ment’s case-in-chief, the proffer letter poses no barrier to their
    admission.
    B.
    Having determined that the testimony about Mr. Smith’s
    proffer statements was admissible, we next consider whether
    the district court had a sufficient basis for finding that the
    disputed properties were subject to forfeiture. We conclude
    that whether or not the proffer statement is considered, the
    district court was on solid ground in holding that properties
    were forfeitable.
    1.
    The most straightforward reason why Mr. Smith’s conten-
    tion must fail is that the properties in question are clearly
    substitute assets that may be used to satisfy the in personam
    judgment entered by the district court. Section 853(p) provides
    explicitly that substitute property may be used to satisfy a
    judgment whenever property that is directly forfeitable under
    21 U.S.C. § 853(a):
    (A) cannot be located upon the exercise of due
    diligence;
    (B) has been transferred or sold to, or deposited
    with, a third party;
    28                                                   No. 13-1375
    (C) has been placed beyond the jurisdiction of the
    court;
    (D) has been substantially diminished in value; or
    (E) has been commingled with other property
    which cannot be divided without difficulty.
    21 U.S.C. § 853(p)(1). The properties at issue here clearly fall
    within the ambit of this statute. Agent Anderson testified at the
    forfeiture hearing that he had searched diligently to locate all
    of Mr. Smith’s assets. Mr. Smith does not contest that assertion.
    More fundamentally, all of Mr. Smith’s known unencumbered
    assets, valued at their original purchase prices, amounted to
    less than half of the forfeiture judgment amount. Under these
    circumstances, even if the properties were not directly subject
    to forfeiture as drug proceeds, they were subject to forfeiture
    as substitute property.
    Mr. Smith contends that the properties could not be
    forfeited as substitute property because of the wording of the
    district court’s forfeiture order. He invites our attention to the
    order’s provision that “[t]he United States may, at its option,
    enforce said judgment as a forfeiture judgment with the ability
    to seek to forfeit[] substitute assets.”35 Mr. Smith submits that
    “[t]he court indicated that the forfeiture of substitute property
    would be appropriate and that the government could seek to
    forfeit such property, but did not specifically order any items
    35
    R.246-1 at 5 (emphasis added).
    No. 13-1375                                                                29
    or parcels forfeited pursuant to § 853(p).”36 The Government
    had not sought to forfeit the properties within the meaning of
    the court’s order, he argues. We are unpersuaded that the
    wording of the district court’s order did not provide ade-
    quately for the disputed properties to be forfeited as substitute
    property or that the Government has not pursued them as
    such. Mr. Smith attempts to sow dubiety where none exists.
    Mr. Smith next maintains that the properties cannot be
    forfeited as substitute property because it “would be a logically
    self-contradicting ruling” to determine that assets can be both
    forfeitable as substitute property and forfeitable as proceeds
    from criminal activity.37 In his view, assets must logically be
    one or the other; an asset cannot be both proceeds and substi-
    tute property.38 An attempt to categorize the disputed proper-
    ties as forfeitable proceeds of Mr. Smith’s criminal activities, if
    it were unsuccessful, does not forever prevent those same
    properties from being forfeited as substitute property.39
    36
    Reply Br. 2 (emphasis in original).
    37
    
    Id. 38 See
    id. (quoting United 
    States v. Bornfield, 
    145 F.3d 1123
    , 1139 (10th Cir.
    1998), for the proposition that “an asset cannot logically be both forfeitable
    and a substitute asset” because “[t]o allow such an anomaly would render
    the substitute assets provision meaningless”).
    39
    We do not believe that this conclusion is contrary to that reached by the
    Tenth Circuit in Bornfield. In Bornfield, the Tenth Circuit vacated the jury’s
    special verdict, which determined that certain assets were forfeitable
    because they were involved in the defendant’s money laundering offense.
    (continued...)
    30                                                                No. 13-1375
    2.
    The Government maintained that the properties in question
    were subject to forfeiture as proceeds from illegal activity
    under 21 U.S.C. § 853(a). That subsection provides that a
    person convicted of a violation shall forfeit:
    (1) any property constituting, or derived from, any
    proceeds the person obtained, directly or indirectly,
    as the result of such violation;
    (2) any of the person’s property used, or intended
    to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to
    facilitate the commission of, such violation[.]
    21 U.S.C. § 853(a)(1)-(2). The Government employed a “net
    worth” analysis and the statutory presumption in § 853(d) to
    argue that there was no likely income source for Mr. Smith’s
    disputed properties that was unconnected to his drug traffick-
    ing. Section 853(d) provides:
    There is a rebuttable presumption at trial that any
    property of a person convicted of a felony … is
    subject to forfeiture under this section if the United
    39
    (...continued)
    The Tenth Circuit also vacated the district court’s forfeiture order which
    purported to designate the assets at issue as substitute assets under 18
    U.S.C. § 982(b)(1)(A) and 21 U.S.C. § 853(p); it explained that, “[a]bsent the
    jury’s valid initial award of forfeiture, the district court could not grant
    forfeiture pursuant to the substitute assets provision.” 
    Bornfield, 145 F.3d at 1139
    . Here, however, there is no question that the “monetary forfeiture
    judgment … in the amount of $790,020,” see R.246-1 at 5, is sound. Cf. United
    States v. Saccoccia, 
    564 F.3d 502
    , 506 (1st Cir. 2009) (distinguishing Bornfield).
    No. 13-1375                                                   31
    States establishes by a preponderance of the evi-
    dence that—
    (1) such property was acquired by such person
    during the period of the violation … or within a
    reasonable time after such period; and
    (2) there was no likely source for such property
    other than the violation … .
    21 U.S.C. § 853(d). Agent Anderson provided extensive
    testimony about Mr. Smith’s income and expenditures during
    the relevant period, which indicated that there was no likely
    source for the disputed properties other than Mr. Smith’s illicit
    drug trafficking. The Government argued, and the district
    court agreed, that Mr. Smith’s rental income could not provide
    a legitimate income source to account for his purchase of the
    disputed properties.
    Mr. Smith contends on appeal that “the only evidence” that
    his rental income was linked to drug proceeds was his
    “improperly-admitted proffer statements.”40 We explained
    earlier that those proffer statements were admitted properly.
    Even if the statements were not admitted properly, there is
    sufficient evidence to establish that Mr. Smith’s rental income
    was not a legitimate and sufficient source for his purchase of
    the disputed properties. Mr. Smith does not contest that his
    expenditures far exceeded his modest disability income during
    the relevant period. He offers no explanation of how he was
    able to purchase so many properties—either his rental proper-
    ties or the properties disputed here—on his limited disability
    40
    Reply Br. 3–4.
    32                                                     No. 13-1375
    income. It therefore was not unreasonable for the district court
    to conclude, even absent the proffer statements, that
    Mr. Smith’s finances indicated that his rental income was
    tainted by illicit drug proceeds. There was certainly sufficient
    evidence to support the district court’s finding by a preponder-
    ance of the evidence that the disputed properties were subject
    to forfeiture because they were obtained in part through drug
    proceeds.
    Conclusion
    The judgment of the district court is affirmed.
    AFFIRMED