Angel Lopez-Valenzuela v. County of Maricopa , 770 F.3d 772 ( 2014 )


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  •                  FOR PUBLICATION
    UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
    FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT
    ANGEL LOPEZ-VALENZUELA; ISAAC             No. 11-16487
    CASTRO-ARMENTA,
    Plaintiffs-Appellants,          D.C. No.
    2:08-cv-00660-
    v.                            SRB
    JOSEPH M. ARPAIO, Maricopa
    County Sheriff, in his official             OPINION
    capacity; COUNTY OF MARICOPA;
    WILLIAM GERARD MONTGOMERY,
    Maricopa County Attorney, in his
    official capacity,
    Defendants-Appellees.
    Appeal from the United States District Court
    for the District of Arizona
    Susan R. Bolton, District Judge, Presiding
    Argued and Submitted En Banc
    March 18, 2014—San Francisco, California
    Filed October 15, 2014
    Before: Alex Kozinski, Chief Judge, and Diarmuid
    O’Scannlain, Sidney R. Thomas, M. Margaret McKeown,
    Raymond C. Fisher, Marsha S. Berzon, Richard C.
    Tallman, Jay S. Bybee, Milan D. Smith, Jr., Jacqueline H.
    Nguyen, and Paul J. Watford, Circuit Judges.
    2               LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    Opinion by Judge Fisher;
    Concurrence by Judge Nguyen;
    Dissent by Judge Tallman;
    Dissent by Judge O’Scannlain
    SUMMARY*
    Civil Rights
    The en banc court reversed the district court’s summary
    judgment in a class action challenging Proposition 100, a
    ballot measure passed by Arizona voters that amended the
    state constitution to preclude bail for certain serious felony
    offenses if the person charged has entered or remained in the
    United States illegally and if the proof is evident or the
    presumption great as to the charge.
    The en banc court held that Proposition 100, and its
    implementing laws and rules, violate the substantive
    component of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth
    Amendment. Applying the heightened substantive due
    process scrutiny set forth in United States v. Salerno, 
    481 U.S. 739
    , 746-48 (1987), the en banc court held that the
    Proposition 100 laws do not address an established
    “particularly acute problem,” are not limited to “a specific
    category of extremely serious offenses,” and do not afford the
    individualized determination of flight risk or dangerousness
    that Salerno deemed essential. Rather, the laws represent a
    scattershot attempt at addressing flight risk and are not
    *
    This summary constitutes no part of the opinion of the court. It has
    been prepared by court staff for the convenience of the reader.
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                       3
    narrowly tailored to serve a compelling interest. In addition,
    the en banc court held that the challenged laws are excessive
    in relation to the state’s legitimate interest in assuring
    arrestees’ presence for trial.
    Concurring, Judge Nguyen agreed with the majority that
    Proposition 100 violates substantive due process. She wrote
    separately to address the record of legislative intent, which
    she believed demonstrates that Proposition 100 was
    intentionally drafted to punish undocumented immigrants for
    their “illegal” status, even if they pose no flight risk or danger
    to the community.
    Dissenting, Judge Tallman, joined by Judge O’Scannlain,
    stated that Proposition 100 is not excessive in relation to
    Arizona’s compelling regulatory interest in ensuring that
    illegal aliens who commit serious felony offenses stand trial.
    Dissenting, Judge O’Scannlain stated that the question of
    whether denying bail to illegal immigrants based on flight
    risk is unconstitutionally excessive should have been
    analyzed under the Eighth Amendment’s Excessive Bail
    Clause. Judge O’Scannlain tentatively concluded that the
    Eighth Amendment does not restrict legislative discretion to
    declare certain crimes nonbailable.
    4             LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    COUNSEL
    Andre I. Segura and Esha Bhandari, American Civil Liberties
    Union Foundation, Immigrants’ Rights Project, New York,
    New York; Cecillia D. Wang (argued) and Kenneth J.
    Sugarman, American Civil Liberties Union Foundation,
    Immigrants’ Rights Project, San Francisco, California; Daniel
    Pochoda, ACLU Foundation of Arizona, Phoenix, Arizona,
    for Plaintiffs-Appellants.
    Timothy J. Casey (argued), Schmitt Schneck Smyth Casey &
    Even, P.C., Phoenix, Arizona, for Defendants-Appellees
    Maricopa County and Joseph M. Arpaio.
    Bruce P. White and Anne C. Longo, Deputy County
    Attorneys, Maricopa County Civil Services Division,
    Phoenix, Arizona, for Defendant-Appellee Maricopa County
    Attorney William Montgomery.
    Anthony O’Rourke, Associate Professor, SUNY Buffalo Law
    School, for Amici Curiae Constitutional Criminal Law and
    Immigration Law Professors.
    Kathleen E. Brody, Osborn Maledon, P.A., Phoenix, Arizona;
    Amy Kalman and Mikel Steinfeld, Office of the Maricopa
    County Public Defender, Phoenix, Arizona; David Euchner,
    Office of the Pima County Public Defender, Tucson, Arizona,
    for Amicus Curiae Arizona Attorneys for Criminal Justice.
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                            5
    OPINION
    FISHER, Circuit Judge, with whom KOZINSKI, Chief Judge,
    and THOMAS, McKEOWN, BERZON, BYBEE, M. SMITH
    and NGUYEN, Circuit Judges, join in full, and with whom
    WATFORD, Circuit Judge, joins except as to section III.B.2:
    Arizona law categorically forbids granting undocumented
    immigrants arrested for a wide range of felony offenses any
    form of bail or pretrial release, even if the particular arrestee
    is not a flight risk or dangerous. We must decide whether
    such an absolute denial comports with the substantive
    component of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth
    Amendment. We hold that it does not.
    I.
    In 2006, Arizona voters overwhelmingly approved an
    amendment to their state constitution known as Proposition
    100.1 Proposition 100 mandates that Arizona state courts
    may not set bail “[f]or serious felony offenses as prescribed
    by the legislature if the person charged has entered or
    remained in the United States illegally and if the proof is
    evident or the presumption great as to the present charge.”
    Ariz. Const. art. 2, § 22(A)(4). In a separate enactment, the
    Arizona legislature defined “serious felony offenses” as any
    class 1, 2, 3 or 4 felony or aggravated driving-under-the-
    influence offense. See 
    Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 13
    -
    3961(A)(5)(b).
    1
    The Arizona legislature passed the legislation and referred it to the
    voters in May 2005. The voters approved Proposition 100 in November
    2006.
    6             LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    The Proposition 100 bail determination is made at an
    initial appearance, which under Arizona law occurs within 24
    hours of arrest. See Ariz. R. Crim. P. 4.1(a). At the initial
    appearance, the court must deny bail, irrespective of whether
    the arrestee poses a flight risk or a danger to the community,
    “if the court finds (1) that the proof is evident or the
    presumption great that the person committed a serious
    offense, and (2) probable cause that the person entered or
    remained in the United States illegally.” Ariz. R. Crim. P.
    7.2(b). An arrestee deemed ineligible for bail at the initial
    appearance may move for reexamination, and a hearing on
    such motion “shall be held on the record as soon as
    practicable but not later than seven days after filing of the
    motion.” Ariz. R. Crim. P. 7.4(b). At the follow-up
    proceeding, known as a Simpson/Segura hearing, see Simpson
    v. Owens, 
    85 P.3d 478
     (Ariz. Ct. App. 2004); Segura v.
    Cunanan, 
    196 P.3d 831
     (Ariz. Ct. App. 2008), the arrestee
    can dispute whether there is probable cause that he or she
    entered or remained in the United States illegally, but may
    not refute Proposition 100’s irrebuttable presumption that he
    or she poses an unmanageable flight risk. Once the court
    determines that there is probable cause to believe an arrestee
    has entered or remained in the United States unlawfully, the
    court has no discretion to release the arrestee under any
    circumstances, even if the court would find – and the state
    would concede – that the particular arrestee does not pose a
    flight risk or danger to the community.
    In 2008, plaintiffs Angel Lopez-Valenzuela and Isaac
    Castro-Armenta filed a class action complaint against
    Maricopa County, the Maricopa County Sheriff, the Maricopa
    County Attorney and the Presiding Judge of the Maricopa
    County Superior Court, challenging the constitutionality of
    Proposition 100 and its implementing laws and rules (“the
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                    7
    Proposition 100 laws”). At the time the complaint was filed,
    both plaintiffs were charged with state crimes and held in
    Maricopa County jails as a result of orders finding that they
    had entered or remained in the United States illegally. The
    complaint proposed a plaintiff class consisting of “All
    persons who have been or will be held ineligible for release
    on bond by an Arizona state court in Maricopa County
    pursuant to Section 22(A)(4) of the Arizona Constitution and
    
    Ariz. Rev. Stat. § 13-3961
    (A)(5).”
    The plaintiffs alleged that the Proposition 100 laws
    violate the United States Constitution in a number of ways.
    As relevant here, they alleged that the Proposition 100 laws
    violate the substantive due process guarantees of the
    Fourteenth Amendment on two theories: (1) arrestees have a
    liberty interest in being eligible for release on bond pending
    resolution of criminal charges and the Proposition 100 laws
    are not narrowly tailored to serve a compelling governmental
    interest; and (2) the laws impermissibly impose punishment
    before trial. The plaintiffs also alleged violations of the
    procedural due process guarantees of the Fourteenth
    Amendment, the Fifth Amendment right against self-
    incrimination, the Sixth Amendment right to counsel, the
    Excessive Bail Clause of the Eighth Amendment and the
    Supremacy Clause, alleging that the Proposition 100 laws are
    preempted by federal law. They sought an order declaring
    the Proposition 100 laws unconstitutional, enjoining the
    enforcement of those laws and affording each of them an
    individualized bail hearing at which they may be considered
    for release, taking into account particularized facts about
    whether release would pose an unacceptable risk of flight or
    danger to the community.
    8                 LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    In a December 2008 order, the district court granted the
    plaintiffs’ motion for class certification, certifying a class
    under Rule 23(b)(2) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.
    The court also granted the defendants’ motion to dismiss the
    plaintiffs’ preemption claims under Rule 12(b)(6).
    The parties filed cross motions for summary judgment.
    In a March 2011 order, the district court denied the plaintiffs’
    motion for summary judgment and granted the defendants’
    motion for partial summary judgment on the plaintiffs’
    substantive due process, procedural due process, Eighth
    Amendment and Sixth Amendment claims. See Fed. R. Civ.
    P. 56. The plaintiffs thereafter voluntarily dismissed their
    Fifth Amendment claim. The district court then entered a
    final judgment, from which the plaintiffs timely appealed,
    challenging the Rule 12(b)(6) dismissal of their preemption
    claims and the adverse summary judgment rulings on their
    substantive due process, procedural due process, Eighth
    Amendment and Sixth Amendment claims.
    After a divided three-judge panel of this court affirmed
    the judgment of the district court, a majority of nonrecused
    active judges voted in favor of rehearing en banc. See
    Lopez-Valenzuela v. Cnty. of Maricopa, 
    719 F.3d 1054
    , 1073
    (9th Cir. 2013), reh’g en banc granted, 
    741 F.3d 1015
     (9th
    Cir. 2014). We have jurisdiction under 
    28 U.S.C. § 1291
    , and
    we now reverse.2
    2
    Although we assume that the named plaintiffs are no longer in pretrial
    detention, no one has suggested that this case has become moot as a
    consequence. See Bates v. United Parcel Serv., Inc., 
    511 F.3d 974
    , 987
    (9th Cir. 2007) (en banc) (“With regard to mootness, the Supreme Court
    held that the ‘cases or controversies’ requirement of Article III – which
    requires a plaintiff with a live case or controversy, not only at the time of
    filing and at the time of class certification, but also when a court reviews
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                           9
    II.
    We review de novo a district court’s grant or denial of
    summary judgment. See Russell Country Sportsmen v. U.S.
    Forest Serv., 
    668 F.3d 1037
    , 1041 (9th Cir. 2011). We also
    review de novo a district court’s grant of a motion to dismiss
    under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6). See Cousins
    v. Lockyer, 
    568 F.3d 1063
    , 1067 (9th Cir. 2009). We review
    a challenge to the constitutionality of a statute de novo as
    well. See United States v. Gonzales, 
    307 F.3d 906
    , 909 (9th
    Cir. 2002).
    III.
    The plaintiffs contend that the Proposition 100 laws
    violate substantive due process. We agree.
    A.
    The Supreme Court has long recognized constitutional
    limits on pretrial detention. The Court has prohibited
    excessive bail, see Stack v. Boyle, 
    342 U.S. 1
    , 4–5 (1951),
    required a judicial determination of probable cause within 48
    hours of arrest, see Cnty. of Riverside v. McLaughlin,
    
    500 U.S. 44
    , 56 (1991); Gerstein v. Pugh, 
    420 U.S. 103
    , 114
    (1975), barred punitive conditions of pretrial confinement,
    see Bell v. Wolfish, 
    441 U.S. 520
    , 535–37 (1979), prohibited
    pretrial detention as punishment, see United States v. Salerno,
    
    481 U.S. 739
    , 746–48 (1987); Schall v. Martin, 
    467 U.S. 253
    ,
    the case – is satisfied by ‘a named defendant and a member of the class
    represented by the named plaintiff, even though the claim of the named
    plaintiff has become moot.’” (quoting Sosna v. Iowa, 
    419 U.S. 393
    , 402
    (1975))).
    10             LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    269–74 (1984), and held that restrictions on pretrial release of
    adult arrestees must be carefully limited to serve a compelling
    governmental interest, see Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at
    748–51.
    In the first of these cases, Stack v. Boyle, the Court
    observed that the “traditional right to freedom before
    conviction permits the unhampered preparation of a defense,
    and serves to prevent the infliction of punishment prior to
    conviction.” 342 U.S. at 4. The Court noted that, “[u]nless
    this right to bail before trial is preserved, the presumption of
    innocence, secured only after centuries of struggle, would
    lose its meaning,” id., and it held that “[b]ail set at a figure
    higher than an amount reasonably calculated to fulfill [its]
    purpose [of assuring the presence of the accused at trial] is
    ‘excessive’ under the Eighth Amendment,” id. at 5.
    In Gerstein v. Pugh, the Court recognized that “[p]retrial
    confinement may imperil the suspect’s job, interrupt his
    source of income, . . . impair his family relationships” and
    affect his “ability to assist in preparation of his defense.”
    
    420 U.S. at 114, 123
    . The Court held “that the Fourth
    Amendment requires a judicial determination of probable
    cause as a prerequisite to extended restraint of liberty
    following arrest.” 
    Id. at 114
    . This probable cause
    determination is “necessary to effect limited postarrest
    detention,” Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 752
    , and ordinarily must
    occur within 48 hours of arrest, see McLaughlin, 
    500 U.S. at 56
    .
    A few years later, in Bell v. Wolfish, the Court
    emphasized that, “under the Due Process Clause, a detainee
    may not be punished prior to an adjudication of guilt.”
    
    441 U.S. at 535
    . Accordingly, the Court held that “the Due
    Process Clause protects a detainee from . . . conditions and
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                    11
    restrictions of pretrial detainment” that “amount to
    punishment of the detainee.” 
    Id. at 533, 535
    . The Court
    outlined a two-pronged test for determining when conditions
    and restrictions of pretrial detention amount to punishment,
    focusing first on whether the restrictions were imposed for a
    punitive purpose and, if not, on whether the restrictions are
    excessive in relation to a legitimate regulatory purpose:
    A court must decide whether the disability is
    imposed for the purpose of punishment or
    whether it is but an incident of some other
    legitimate governmental purpose. Absent a
    showing of an expressed intent to punish on
    the part of detention facility officials, that
    determination generally will turn on whether
    an alternative purpose to which the restriction
    may rationally be connected is assignable for
    it, and whether it appears excessive in relation
    to the alternative purpose assigned to it. Thus,
    if a particular condition or restriction of
    pretrial detention is reasonably related to a
    legitimate governmental objective, it does not,
    without more, amount to “punishment.”
    Conversely, if a restriction or condition is not
    reasonably related to a legitimate goal – if it is
    arbitrary or purposeless – a court permissibly
    may infer that the purpose of the
    governmental action is punishment that may
    not constitutionally be inflicted upon
    detainees qua detainees.
    
    Id.
     at 538–39 (alterations, footnotes, citations and internal
    quotation marks omitted).
    12             LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    Five years later, in Schall v. Martin, the Court considered
    the substantive due process implications of a state law
    authorizing pretrial detention of juvenile offenders found to
    present “a serious risk” of committing a crime pending their
    juvenile court proceedings. 
    467 U.S. at 255
    . As it would
    later do in Salerno, the Court applied a two-part substantive
    due process inquiry. First, relying on general due process
    principles, the Court considered whether the law constituted
    an impermissible infringement of the juveniles’ liberty
    interest. See Schall, 
    467 U.S. at
    263–68. The Court
    recognized that juveniles have a “substantial” interest in
    “freedom from institutional restraints,” 
    id. at 265
    , but that
    interest had to be “qualified by the recognition that juveniles,
    unlike adults, are always in some form of custody,” 
    id.
    Accordingly, in lieu of heightened scrutiny, the Court
    required the state to show only that the challenged law served
    a “legitimate interest.” 
    Id. at 266
    . This standard was
    satisfied because “[s]ociety has a legitimate interest in
    protecting a juvenile from the consequences of his criminal
    activity – both from potential physical injury which may be
    suffered when a victim fights back or a policeman attempts to
    make an arrest and from the downward spiral of criminal
    activity into which peer pressure may lead the child.” 
    Id.
    Second, relying on the two-pronged test articulated in
    Bell, the Court considered whether the challenged law
    violated substantive due process by imposing confinement as
    punishment. See 
    id.
     at 269–74. Applying the first prong of
    the Bell test, the Court found no evidence that the law was
    intended as punishment. See 
    id. at 269
    . Turning to the
    second prong, the Court concluded that the law was not
    excessive in relation to the state’s legitimate regulatory
    purpose in protecting juveniles from the consequences of
    their criminal activity, because the detention was “strictly
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                    13
    limited in time” (to a maximum possible detention of 17
    days) and the conditions of confinement were regulatory
    rather than punitive. 
    Id.
     at 269–71. The Court also found
    persuasive that every state in the country permitted
    preventive detention of juveniles accused of crime, see 
    id. at 267, 274
    , citing “the widely shared legislative judgment that
    preventive detention serves an important and legitimate
    function in the juvenile justice system,” 
    id. at 272
    .
    Three years later, in United States v. Salerno, the Court
    rounded out this series of pretrial detention cases by
    considering the substantive due process implications of a
    federal law authorizing pretrial detention of adult arrestees.
    Salerno involved a challenge to a provision of the federal Bail
    Reform Act of 1984 requiring pretrial detention of arrestees
    charged with certain serious felonies if the government
    demonstrated by clear and convincing evidence after an
    adversary hearing that no release conditions “will reasonably
    assure . . . the safety of any other person and the community.”
    18 U.S.C.§ 3142(e). As it had in Schall, the Court applied a
    two-part substantive due process inquiry, albeit in the reverse
    order.
    First, relying on Bell and Schall, the Court considered
    whether the Act violated substantive due process by
    authorizing “punishment before trial.” Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 746
    . Under the first Bell prong, the Court found no evidence
    that Congress had authorized pretrial detention for a punitive
    purpose. See 
    id. at 747
    . Rather, Congress had authorized
    detention for the legitimate regulatory purpose of “preventing
    danger to the community.” 
    Id.
     Turning to Bell’s second
    prong, the Court held that “the incidents of pretrial detention”
    were not “excessive in relation to the regulatory goal
    Congress sought to achieve,” because: (1) the Act “carefully
    14             LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    limits the circumstances under which detention may be
    sought to the most serious of crimes,” including “crimes of
    violence, offenses for which the sentence is life imprisonment
    or death, serious drug offenses, or certain repeat offenders”;
    (2) “[t]he arrestee is entitled to a prompt detention hearing”
    at which the arrestee could seek bail; and (3) “the maximum
    length of pretrial detention is limited by the stringent time
    limitations of the Speedy Trial Act.” 
    Id.
     Accordingly, the
    Court held “that the pretrial detention contemplated by the
    Bail Reform Act is regulatory in nature, and does not
    constitute punishment before trial in violation of the Due
    Process Clause.” 
    Id. at 748
    .
    Second, as in Schall, the Court also applied general due
    process principles and considered whether the law constituted
    an impermissible infringement of arrestees’ liberty interest.
    See 
    id.
     at 748–51. Whereas Schall had applied a deferential
    standard of review, however, Salerno applied heightened
    scrutiny. The Court noted that, “[i]n our society liberty is the
    norm, and detention prior to trial or without trial is the
    carefully limited exception.” 
    Id. at 755
    . It cited “the ‘general
    rule’ of substantive due process that the government may not
    detain a person prior to a judgment of guilt in a criminal
    trial.” 
    Id. at 749
    . It recognized that the Act implicated “the
    individual’s strong interest in liberty.” 
    Id. at 750
    . And it was
    careful “not [to] minimize the importance and fundamental
    nature of this right.” 
    Id.
     But the Court concluded that the
    Bail Reform Act satisfied heightened scrutiny because it both
    served a “compelling” and “overwhelming” governmental
    interest “in preventing crime by arrestees” and was “carefully
    limited” to achieve that purpose. 
    Id.
     at 749–50, 755. The Act
    was sufficiently tailored because it “careful[ly] delineat[ed]
    . . . the circumstances under which detention will be
    permitted.” 
    Id. at 751
    . It: (1) “narrowly focuse[d] on a
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                    15
    particularly acute problem in which the Government interests
    are overwhelming,” 
    id. at 750
    ; (2) “operate[d] only on
    individuals who have been arrested for a specific category of
    extremely serious offenses” – individuals that “Congress
    specifically found” were “far more likely to be responsible
    for dangerous acts in the community after arrest,” id.; and
    (3) afforded arrestees “a full-blown adversary hearing” at
    which the government was required to “convince a neutral
    decisionmaker by clear and convincing evidence that no
    conditions of release can reasonably assure the safety of the
    community or any person,” 
    id.
     It satisfied heightened
    scrutiny because it was a “carefully limited exception,” 
    id. at 755
    , not a “scattershot attempt” at preventing crime by
    arrestees, 
    id. at 750
    .
    B.
    Salerno and Schall establish the substantive due process
    framework that governs here. We first consider whether the
    Proposition 100 laws satisfy general substantive due process
    principles. Because the Proposition 100 laws regulate adults
    rather than juveniles, we apply Salerno’s heightened scrutiny
    rather than Schall’s more deferential review. We then
    consider in the alternative whether the Proposition 100 laws
    violate due process, under Bell, Schall and Salerno, by
    imposing punishment before trial. To succeed on their facial
    challenge, the plaintiffs must show that the Proposition 100
    laws are unconstitutional in all of their applications. See
    Wash. State Grange v. Wash. State Republican Party,
    
    552 U.S. 442
    , 449 (2008) (citing Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 745
    );
    see also 
    id.
     (“While some Members of the Court have
    criticized the Salerno formulation, all agree that a facial
    challenge must fail where the statute has a plainly legitimate
    16             LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    sweep.” (internal quotation marks omitted)); United States v.
    Stevens, 
    559 U.S. 460
    , 472 (2010).
    1.
    We first consider whether the Proposition 100 laws satisfy
    general substantive due process principles.
    The governing substantive due process standard is a
    familiar one. “The Due Process Clause . . . provides
    heightened protection against government interference with
    certain fundamental rights and liberty interests,” Washington
    v. Glucksberg, 
    521 U.S. 702
    , 719–20 (1997), “forbid[ding]
    the government to infringe certain ‘fundamental’ liberty
    interests at all, no matter what process is provided, unless the
    infringement is narrowly tailored to serve a compelling state
    interest,” Reno v. Flores, 
    507 U.S. 292
    , 302 (1993).
    We apply heightened scrutiny here because the
    Proposition 100 laws infringe a “fundamental” right.
    Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 750
    . The defendants’ brief suggests that
    the Proposition 100 laws do not implicate a fundamental
    right, because “[b]ail . . . is not a fundamental . . .
    constitutional right,” but Salerno made clear that what is at
    stake here is “the individual’s strong interest in liberty,” and
    the Court was careful “not [to] minimize the importance and
    fundamental nature of this right.” 
    Id.
     (emphasis added). If
    there was any doubt about the level of scrutiny applied in
    Salerno, it has been resolved in subsequent Supreme Court
    decisions, which have confirmed that Salerno involved a
    fundamental liberty interest and applied heightened scrutiny.
    See Flores, 
    507 U.S. at
    301–02; 
    id. at 316
     (O’Connor, J.,
    concurring); Foucha v. Louisiana, 
    504 U.S. 71
    , 80–83 (1992);
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                       17
    
    id. at 93
     (Kennedy, J., dissenting). Salerno and the cases that
    have followed it have recognized that “[f]reedom from bodily
    restraint has always been at the core of the liberty protected
    by the Due Process Clause from arbitrary governmental
    action.”      Foucha, 
    504 U.S. at 80
    .              Thus, “[t]he
    institutionalization of an adult by the government triggers
    heightened, substantive due process scrutiny.” Flores,
    
    507 U.S. at 316
     (O’Connor, J., concurring). As the Court
    explained in Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 755
    , “liberty is the norm,
    and detention prior to trial or without trial is the carefully
    limited exception.” See also Zadvydas v. Davis, 
    533 U.S. 678
    , 690 (2001) (“Freedom from imprisonment – from
    government custody, detention, or other forms of physical
    restraint – lies at the heart of the liberty that [the Due
    Process] Clause protects.”); Foucha, 
    504 U.S. at 90
    (Kennedy, J., dissenting) (“As incarceration of persons is the
    most common and one of the most feared instruments of state
    oppression and state indifference, we ought to acknowledge
    at the outset that freedom from this restraint is essential to the
    basic definition of liberty in the Fifth and Fourteenth
    Amendments of the Constitution.”). Thus, the Proposition
    100 laws will satisfy substantive due process only if they are
    “narrowly tailored to serve a compelling state interest.”
    Flores, 
    507 U.S. at
    302 (citing Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 746
    ).3
    That the Proposition 100 laws regulate persons when
    there is probable cause to believe they have “entered or
    remained in the United States illegally,” Ariz. Const. art. 2,
    § 22(A)(4), does not alter the analysis, as the defendants
    concede. The Due Process Clauses of the Fifth and
    Fourteenth Amendments protect every person within the
    3
    At oral argument, the defendants conceded that Salerno applied
    heightened scrutiny and that heightened scrutiny applies here.
    18                LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    nation’s borders from deprivation of life, liberty or property
    without due process of law. See Mathews v. Diaz, 
    426 U.S. 67
    , 77 (1976). “Even one whose presence in this country is
    unlawful, involuntary, or transitory is entitled to that
    constitutional protection.” Id.4
    We also bear in mind that, regardless of whether an
    arrestee is a citizen, a lawful resident or an undocumented
    immigrant, the costs to the arrestee of pretrial detention are
    profound. “Pretrial confinement may imperil the suspect’s
    job, interrupt his source of income, and impair his family
    relationships.” Gerstein, 
    420 U.S. at 114
    . And it may affect
    “the defendant’s ability to assist in preparation of his
    defense.” 
    Id. at 123
    . As the Supreme Court stated in Stack,
    342 U.S. at 4, the “traditional right to freedom before
    conviction permits the unhampered preparation of a defense.”
    See also ABA Standards for Criminal Justice: Pretrial Release
    29 (3d. ed. 2007) (citing “considerable evidence that pretrial
    custody status is associated with the ultimate outcomes of
    cases, with released defendants consistently faring better than
    defendants in detention”).
    In this case, the defendants argue that the Proposition 100
    laws satisfy substantive due process because they serve the
    state’s substantial interest in ensuring that persons accused of
    crimes are available for trial. They argue that pretrial
    detention is a constitutionally acceptable means of furthering
    4
    See also Zadvydas, 
    533 U.S. at 718
     (Kennedy, J., dissenting) (“As
    persons within our jurisdiction, . . . aliens are entitled to the protection of
    the Due Process Clause.”); cf. Shaughnessy v. United States ex rel. Mezei,
    
    345 U.S. 206
    , 212 (1953) (“[A]liens who have once passed through our
    gates, even illegally, may be expelled only after proceedings conforming
    to traditional standards of fairness encompassed in due process of law.”).
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                     19
    that interest. And they contend that Proposition 100’s
    categorical denial of bail to undocumented immigrants,
    without any individualized determination of flight risk, is
    justified because undocumented immigrants in general pose
    an unmanageable flight risk. The district court accepted this
    rationale, concluding that “[t]he Arizona legislature and
    Arizona voters made the logical assumption that a person
    who is unlawfully present in the United States may not appear
    for trial.” We disagree.
    We do not question that Arizona has a compelling interest
    in ensuring that persons accused of serious crimes, including
    undocumented immigrants, are available for trial. See
    Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 749
     (noting that “an arrestee may be
    incarcerated until trial if he presents a risk of flight”); Bell,
    
    441 U.S. at 534
     (recognizing the government’s “substantial
    interest in ensuring that persons accused of crimes are
    available for trials and, ultimately, for service of their
    sentences,” and “that confinement of such persons pending
    trial is a legitimate means of furthering that interest”). The
    plaintiffs properly conceded this point at oral argument.
    We do, however, reject the proposition that the
    Proposition 100 laws are carefully limited, as Salerno
    requires. Salerno concluded that the challenged provisions of
    the Bail Reform Act satisfied the tailoring requirement of
    heightened scrutiny because they created a “narrowly
    focuse[d],” “carefully limited exception” to the “‘general
    rule’ of substantive due process that the government may not
    detain a person prior to a judgment of guilt in a criminal
    trial.” Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at
    749–50, 755 (emphasis added).
    The Act thus satisfied the heightened scrutiny standard
    because Congress had chosen a “careful delineation of the
    circumstances under which detention will be permitted”
    20            LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    rather than adopting a “scattershot attempt” at advancing the
    government’s interest in preventing crime by arrestees. 
    Id.
     at
    750–51 (emphasis added).
    In holding the Act sufficiently tailored to satisfy
    heightened scrutiny, Salerno focused on three considerations.
    First, that the challenged provisions addressed “a particularly
    acute problem.” 
    Id. at 750
    . Second, that “[t]he Act operates
    only on individuals who have been arrested for a specific
    category of extremely serious offenses,” where Congress had
    “specifically found that these individuals are far more likely
    to be responsible for dangerous acts in the community after
    arrest.” 
    Id.
     Third, that the Act required “a full-blown
    adversary hearing” at which the government was required to
    “convince a neutral decisionmaker by clear and convincing
    evidence that no conditions of release can reasonably assure
    the safety of the community or any person.” 
    Id.
     None of
    those considerations exist here.
    a. The Proposition 100 Laws Do Not
    Address a Particularly Acute Problem.
    First, the record does not support the argument that the
    Proposition 100 laws addressed “a particularly acute
    problem.” Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 750
    . The Bail Reform Act at
    issue in Salerno addressed an “alarming problem of crimes
    committed by persons on release.” 
    Id. at 742
     (quoting S.
    Rep. No. 98-225, at 3 (1983), reprinted in 1984 U.S.C.C.A.N.
    3182, 3185) (internal quotation marks omitted). The record
    in Salerno contained empirical evidence establishing that the
    legislation addressed “a pressing societal problem,” 
    id.
     at 747
    (citing S. Rep. No. 98-225, at 4–8, 1984 U.S.C.C.A.N. at
    3186–91), and the law operated only on individuals
    “Congress specifically found . . . are far more likely to be
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                           21
    responsible for dangerous acts in the community after arrest,”
    
    id.
     at 750 (citing S. Rep. No. 98-225, at 6–7, 1984
    U.S.C.C.A.N. at 3188–90).            This evidence figured
    prominently in the Court’s decision to uphold the Bail
    Reform Act.
    Similarly, in Demore v. Kim, 
    538 U.S. 510
     (2003), where
    the Court upheld a federal immigration statute providing for
    mandatory detention of certain convicted criminal aliens
    during the brief period of their civil removal proceedings, the
    record contained evidence that the legislation addressed a
    particularly acute problem. The Court emphasized and
    discussed at length the considerable evidence in the record,
    much of it quantitative, showing that the legislation applied
    to persons who were both dangerous and at risk of flight. See
    
    id.
     at 518–21, 528.5
    Here, there is no evidence that the Proposition 100 laws
    were adopted to address a particularly acute problem. In
    contrast to Salerno and Demore, the record contains no
    findings, studies, statistics or other evidence (whether or not
    part of the legislative record) showing that undocumented
    immigrants as a group pose either an unmanageable flight
    risk or a significantly greater flight risk than lawful residents.
    The absence of such evidence both distinguishes this case
    5
    “One 1986 study showed that, after criminal aliens were identified as
    deportable, 77% were arrested at least once more and 45% – nearly half
    – were arrested multiple times before their deportation proceedings even
    began.” Demore, 
    538 U.S. at 518
    . Another study showed that “[o]nce
    released, more than 20% of deportable criminal aliens failed to appear for
    their removal hearings.” 
    Id. at 519
    . Congress also had empirical evidence
    that, “even with individualized screening, releasing deportable criminal
    aliens on bond would lead to an unacceptable rate of flight.” 
    Id. at 520
    ;
    see also 
    id. at 528
    . Such evidence is lacking here.
    22               LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    from Salerno and supports the conclusion that Proposition
    100 laws are not carefully limited, as they must be to survive
    heightened scrutiny under Salerno.6
    6
    In arguing that Proposition 100 addressed a particularly acute problem,
    Judge Tallman focuses on two factors: (1) statements made in support of
    Proposition 100 by then-Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas; and
    (2) that Arizona voters approved the Proposition by a wide margin.
    Neither argument is persuasive.
    As part of the 2006 campaign in favor of Proposition 100, County
    Attorney Thomas asserted that “[f]ar too many illegal immigrants accused
    of serious crimes have jumped bail and slipped across the border in order
    to avoid justice in an Arizona courtroom.” He also told Lou Dobbs
    Tonight that Arizona had a “tremendous problem with illegal immigrants
    coming into the state, committing serious crimes, and then absconding,
    and not facing trial for their crimes, either because they jump bail after
    they are out, or because, when they are let out on bail, the federal
    government deports them.” The record does not substantiate Thomas’
    claims, however, and he is not a credible source. He was disbarred in
    2012 for using his office to destroy political enemies, filing malicious and
    unfounded criminal charges, committing perjury and engaging in a host
    of other crimes, and the state bar committee found that he had
    “outrageously exploited power,” “flagrantly fostered fear,” “disgracefully
    misused the law” and “dishonored, desecrated, and defiled” the public
    trust. In re Thomas, No. PDJ-2011-9002 (Before the Presiding
    Disciplinary Judge of the Supreme Court of Arizona, Apr. 10, 2012)
    (Opinion and Order Imposing Sanctions), at p. 245, available at
    http://www.azcourts.gov/mediaroom/HighProfileCaseUpdate.aspx (last
    visited July 10, 2014). Although Judge Tallman relies heavily on
    Thomas’ comments (Dissent at 53–54, 58 & n.4), the defendants tellingly
    do not even mention them.
    That Arizona voters approved Proposition 100 by a large margin
    (Dissent at 53, 58 & n.5, 59, 61) also does not show that the legislation
    addressed a particularly acute problem. At most, the vote shows that
    voters perceived a problem, not that one actually existed. Moreover, as
    discussed below in part III.B.2 and in Judge Nguyen’s concurrence, there
    is substantial evidence that Arizona voters approved Proposition 100 at
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                             23
    Contrary to Judge Tallman’s reading of our opinion, we
    neither “demand” findings, studies, statistics or other
    evidence showing that undocumented immigrants pose an
    unmanageable flight risk nor impose an “empirical data
    requirement” on the defendants. Dissent at 60–61. We do
    not hold Proposition 100 “void . . . for want of evidence,”
    Nixon v. Shrink Mo. Gov’t PAC, 
    528 U.S. 377
    , 391 (2000),
    but rather that the Proposition 100 laws are not “carefully
    limited” under Salerno. Whether Proposition 100 “narrowly
    focuses on a particularly acute problem” is part of that
    inquiry. Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 750
    ; see also Foucha, 
    504 U.S. at 81
    . Thus, although we do not require the defendants to
    produce evidence or point to legislative findings, the absence
    of any credible showing that the Proposition 100 laws
    addressed a particularly acute problem is one factor quite
    relevant to demonstrating that the laws are not carefully
    limited.
    b. The Proposition 100 Laws Are Not
    Limited to a Specific Category of
    Extremely Serious Offenses.
    Second, the Proposition 100 laws are not limited to “a
    specific category of extremely serious offenses.” Salerno,
    
    481 U.S. at 750
    ; cf. Demore, 
    538 U.S. at
    517–18, Kansas v.
    Hendricks, 
    521 U.S. 346
    , 357 (1997). Instead, they
    encompass an exceedingly broad range of offenses, including
    not only serious offenses but also relatively minor ones, such
    as unlawful copying of a sound recording, altering a lottery
    ticket with intent to defraud, tampering with a computer with
    least in part for reasons other than a perceived problem of flight risk – to
    punish undocumented immigrants for perceived immigration and criminal
    violations.
    24            LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    the intent to defraud and theft of property worth between
    $3,000 and $4,000.
    c. The Proposition 100 Laws Do Not
    Require a Full-blown Adversary
    Hearing at Which the State Is Required
    to Prove that an Individual Arrestee
    Presents an Unmanageable Flight Risk.
    Finally, even if some undocumented immigrants pose an
    unmanageable flight risk or undocumented immigrants on
    average pose a greater flight risk than other arrestees,
    Proposition 100 plainly is not carefully limited because it
    employs an overbroad, irrebuttable presumption rather than
    an individualized hearing to determine whether a particular
    arrestee poses an unmanageable flight risk. In Salerno, the
    regulatory scheme was limited to arrestees who actually
    posed a danger to the community. First, it was limited to
    “individuals who have been arrested for a specific category
    of extremely serious offenses” – who Congress found were
    “far more likely to be responsible for dangerous acts in the
    community after arrest.” Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 750
    . Second,
    even for arrestees falling within that specific category, the
    scheme provided case-by-case determinations of the need for
    pretrial detention. Each arrestee was entitled to a “full-blown
    adversary hearing,” at which the government was required to
    prove by “clear and convincing evidence” that the individual
    presented “a demonstrable danger to the community” and that
    “no conditions of release c[ould] reasonably assure the safety
    of the community.” 
    Id.
     It was only “[u]nder these narrow
    circumstances” that the Court held that society’s interest was
    sufficient to outweigh the “individual’s strong interest in
    [pretrial] liberty.” 
    Id.
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                    25
    In contrast, Proposition 100 is not narrowly focused on
    those arrestees who actually pose the greatest flight risk.
    Demonstrably, many undocumented immigrants are not
    unmanageable flight risks. The record includes examples of
    undocumented immigrants who were arrested before
    Proposition 100, granted bail or released on their own
    recognizance, and appeared at their court dates and trials. Yet
    even these individuals were needlessly remanded into state
    custody following Proposition 100’s passage.
    In Hernandez v. Lynch, 
    167 P.3d 1264
     (Ariz. Ct. App.
    2007), for example, police found a social security card and a
    resident alien card in Hernandez’s wallet after arresting him
    for possessing an open container of alcohol within the
    passenger compartment of a motor vehicle. See 
    id. at 1265
    .
    Hernandez admitted that the cards were forged, that he had
    purchased them for $5,000 and that he had procured them in
    order to work and buy food. See 
    id. at 1266
    . The state
    charged him with two counts of knowingly possessing forged
    instruments with intent to defraud, a class 4 felony. See 
    id.
    He was released on his own recognizance after an initial
    appearance hearing. When he appeared voluntarily for his
    preliminary hearing, however, he was automatically denied
    bail by operation of Proposition 100. See 
    id.
     He ultimately
    pled guilty to solicitation to commit forgery, a class 6 felony,
    and was placed on probation for one year. See 
    id.
    Proposition 100 categorically eliminates any opportunity for
    persons such as Mr. Hernandez to show that, notwithstanding
    their immigration status, they do not pose a flight risk.
    26               LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    Indeed, it mandates pretrial detention even when the state
    concedes that the arrestee does not pose a flight risk.7
    Whether a categorical denial of bail for noncapital
    offenses could ever withstand heightened scrutiny is an open
    question. See United States v. Scott, 
    450 F.3d 863
    , 874 (9th
    Cir. 2006) (“Neither Salerno nor any other case authorizes
    detaining someone in jail while awaiting trial, or the
    imposition of special bail conditions, based merely on the fact
    of arrest for a particular crime. To the contrary, Salerno . . .
    upheld the constitutionality of a bail system where pretrial
    defendants could be detained only if the need to detain them
    was demonstrated on an individualized basis.”). Lawmakers
    may rely on “reasonable presumptions and generic rules,”
    Demore, 
    538 U.S. at 526
    ; Flores, 
    507 U.S. at 313
    , when a
    regulation “involves no deprivation of a ‘fundamental’ right,”
    Flores, 
    507 U.S. at 311
    , but “‘administrative convenience’ is
    a thoroughly inadequate basis for the deprivation of core
    constitutional rights,” 
    id. at 346
     (Stevens, J., dissenting); see
    Stanley v. Illinois, 
    405 U.S. 645
    , 656–58 (1972). As the
    defendants conceded at oral argument, irrebuttable
    presumptions are disfavored.
    Thus, at minimum, to survive heightened scrutiny any
    such categorical rule, requiring pretrial detention in all cases
    without an individualized determination of flight risk or
    dangerousness, would have to be carefully limited. The
    state’s chosen classification would have to serve as a
    7
    Proposition 100, for example, covers foreign citizens who have no
    legal right to return to their home countries. Conversely, Proposition 100
    excludes from coverage individuals who would seem more likely to flee
    – such as foreign citizens who are in this country lawfully as tourists and
    persons having dual citizenship.
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                             27
    convincing proxy for unmanageable flight risk or
    dangerousness. It has generally been thought, for example,
    that capital offenses may be made categorically nonbailable
    because “most defendants facing a possible death penalty
    would likely flee regardless of what bail was set.” United
    States v. Kennedy, 
    618 F.2d 557
    , 558-59 (9th Cir. 1980) (per
    curiam).8
    There is no evidence that undocumented status correlates
    closely with unmanageable flight risk. The defendants
    speculate that undocumented immigrants pose a greater flight
    risk than lawful residents because they supposedly lack strong
    ties to the community and have a “home” in another country
    to which they can flee. But this assumption ignores those
    8
    We do not, as Judge Tallman writes, “effectively preclud[e] the use of
    irrebuttable presumptions in the bail context.” Dissent at 62. Rather, we
    conclude that whether a categorical denial of bail for noncapital offenses
    could ever withstand heightened scrutiny is an open question, and then
    assume without deciding that such a rule would be constitutional were it
    adequately tailored. Our conclusion that this is an open question is clearly
    correct, given that neither the Supreme Court nor any federal court of
    appeals has addressed the question. The closest case is Hunt v. Roth,
    
    648 F.2d 1148
     (8th Cir. 1981), vacated as moot sub nom. Murphy v. Hunt,
    
    455 U.S. 478
     (1982), where the Eighth Circuit held that a provision of the
    Nebraska Constitution categorically denying bail to persons charged with
    certain sexual offenses violated the Excessive Bail Clause of the Eighth
    Amendment because it employed an irrebuttable presumption rather than
    requiring an individualized determination of flight risk. In language that
    one might apply here as well, the Eighth Circuit held that “[t]he fatal flaw
    in the Nebraska constitutional amendment is that the state has created an
    irrebuttable presumption that every individual charged with this particular
    offense is incapable of assuring his appearance by conditioning it upon
    reasonable bail or is too dangerous to be granted release.” Hunt, 648 F.2d
    at 1164. Hunt, however, was later vacated as moot, so it remains the case
    that no federal appellate court has yet addressed in a precedential decision
    whether a categorical denial of bail comports with the Constitution.
    28            LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    undocumented immigrants who do have strong ties to their
    community or do not have a home abroad. As our own
    court’s immigration docket reveals, many undocumented
    immigrants were brought here as young children and have no
    contacts or roots in another country. Many have “children
    born in the United States” and “long ties to the community.”
    Arizona v. United States, 
    132 S. Ct. 2492
    , 2499 (2012). A
    recent study of undocumented immigrants in California,
    published by the Center for the Study of Immigrant
    Integration at the University of Southern California, found
    that, “contrary to popular misperceptions,” undocumented
    immigrants are “a fairly settled population.” M. Pastor & E.
    Marcelli, What’s at Stake: Undocumented Californians,
    Immigration Reform, and Our Future Together 9 (May 2013),
    available at http://csii.usc.edu/undocumentedCA.html (last
    visited July 28, 2014). The researchers found that “nearly 50
    percent of undocumented immigrants have been in the
    country for more than 10 years, and over 17 percent of
    household heads are homeowners.” 
    Id.
    Moreover, although the defendants consistently refer to
    undocumented immigrant arrestees as “flight risks,” the
    pertinent inquiry is whether the arrestee is an unmanageable
    flight risk. There are a variety of methods to manage flight
    risk, such as bond requirements, monitoring and reporting
    requirements. See, e.g., 
    Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 13-3967
    (D).
    Proposition 100 completely ignores these tools for managing
    flight risk, instead mandating incarceration in every case.
    Before Proposition 100 passed, Arizona had an extensive
    bail scheme designed to help ensure that arrestees appear for
    trial. See Ariz. Const. art. 2, § 22(A)(3); 
    Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 13-3967
    (B). These procedures already required
    judges to consider factors such as “[t]he accused’s family
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                     29
    ties, employment, financial resources,” “length of residence
    in the community,” “[w]hether the accused has entered or
    remained in the United States illegally” and “[w]hether the
    accused’s residence is in this state, in another state or outside
    the United States.” 
    Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 13-3967
    (B)(4),
    (8), (11)–(12). There is no evidence that this set of
    regulations, addressing flight risk on a case-by-case basis,
    was inadequate to protect the state’s compelling interest in
    ensuring undocumented immigrant arrestees’ appearance at
    trial. Cf. Demore, 
    538 U.S. at 520, 528
     (noting that Congress
    chose a mandatory detention rule only after evidence showed
    that individualized screening had failed to address the
    problem of convicted criminal detainees in large numbers
    failing to appear at their removal hearings). Furthermore,
    Arizona added the last two of these considerations –
    “[w]hether the accused has entered or remained in the United
    States illegally” and “[w]hether the accused’s residence is in
    this state, in another state or outside the United States,” 
    Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 13-3967
    (B)(11)–(12) – only in June 2006,
    a few months before Proposition 100 was submitted to the
    state’s voters. See 2006 Ariz. Legis. Serv. Ch. 380 (H.B.
    2580) (West). Arizona gave these provisions no chance to
    succeed before resorting to mandatory detention in every
    case. Thus, although Judge Tallman’s dissent asserts that
    individualized assessments of flight risk have been tried and
    failed (Dissent at 53, 62, 65), neither assertion is borne out by
    the record.
    The Proposition 100 laws also do not reflect a “widely
    shared legislative judgment.” Schall, 
    467 U.S. at 272
    . The
    federal criminal justice system does not categorically deny
    bail to undocumented immigrant arrestees. See generally
    30                LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    
    18 U.S.C. § 3142
    ; see 
    id.
     § 3142(d).9 Most states that
    categorically prohibit bail at all do so only for capital
    offenses10 or for other very serious crimes.11 Other than
    9
    Pre-adjudication eligibility for bail is also the norm in federal removal
    proceedings. See 
    8 U.S.C. § 1226
    (a). Federal law mandates detention
    during removal proceedings only for “a limited class of deportable aliens
    – including those convicted of an aggravated felony.” Demore, 
    538 U.S. at
    517–18; see 
    8 U.S.C. § 1226
    (c).
    10
    See Ala. Const. art. I, § 16; Alaska Const. art. I, § 11; Ark. Const. art.
    2, § 8; Cal. Const. art. I, § 12; Colo. Const. art. II, § 19; Conn. Const. art.
    I, § 8; Del. Const. art. I, § 12; Idaho Const. art. I, § 6; Kan. Const. Bill of
    Rights § 9; Ky. Const. § 16; La. Const. art. I, § 18; Me. Const. art. I, § 10
    (current or former capital offenses nonbailable); Minn. Const. art. I, § 7;
    Miss. Const. art. 3, § 29; N.J. Const. art. I, ¶ 11; N.D. Const. art. I, § 11;
    Ohio Const. art. I, § 9; Okla. Const. art. 2, § 8; Tenn. Const. art. I, § 15;
    Tex. Const. art. I, § 11; Wash. Const. art. I, § 20; Wyo. Const. art. 1, § 14.
    11
    See Fla. Const. art. I, § 14 (capital offenses and offenses punishable
    by life imprisonment nonbailable); Ill. Const. art. I, § 9 (capital offenses
    and offenses punishable by life imprisonment nonbailable); Ind. Const. art.
    1, § 17 (murder and treason nonbailable); 
    Md. Code Ann., Crim. Proc. § 5-202
     (prohibiting pretrial release for an arrestee charged with escaping
    from a correctional facility); Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 276, § 20D (capital
    offenses and offenses punishable by life imprisonment nonbailable); Mich.
    Const. art. I, § 15 (murder, treason, repeat violent felonies and felonies
    committed while out on bail, probation or parole for a prior violent felony
    nonbailable); Neb. Const. art. I, § 9 (murder, treason and serious sexual
    offenses nonbailable); Nev. Const. art. 1, § 7 (capital offenses or murders
    punishable by life imprisonment without possibility of parole
    nonbailable); 
    N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 597:1
    -c (offenses “punishable by up
    to life in prison” nonbailable); N.M. Const. art. II, § 13 (capital offenses
    and certain repeat felony offenders nonbailable); Or. Const. art. I, § 14
    (murder and treason nonbailable); Pa. Const. art. I, § 14 (capital offenses
    or offenses punishable by life imprisonment nonbailable); R.I. Const. art.
    I, § 9 (offenses punishable by life imprisonment, offenses involving
    dangerous weapons by arrestees previously convicted of other offenses
    and certain controlled substance offenses nonbailable); S.C. Const. art. I,
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                             31
    Arizona, only Missouri singles out undocumented immigrants
    for the categorical denial of bail. See 
    Mo. Ann. Stat. § 544.470
    (2).12 The American Bar Association’s Standards
    for Criminal Justice do not make any offenses categorically
    nonbailable. They provide that “only defendants charged
    with dangerous or violent crimes or, in certain cases, with
    other serious crimes, may even be considered for detention,”
    and they state that “[a] decision to detain should be made
    only upon a clear showing of evidence that the defendant
    poses a danger to public safety or a risk of non-appearance
    that requires secure detention.” ABA Standards for Criminal
    Justice: Pretrial Release 35, 51 (3d ed. 2007).
    In an attempt to establish that the Proposition 100 laws
    satisfy due process, the defendants rely heavily on Demore v.
    Kim. This reliance is misplaced. Demore did uphold a
    categorical denial of bail without an individualized
    determination of flight risk or dangerousness for certain
    § 15 (capital offenses, offenses punishable by life imprisonment and
    certain violent offenses nonbailable); Utah Const. art. I, § 8 (capital
    offenses and felony offenses committed while out on bail, probation or
    parole for prior felony offense nonbailable).
    12
    Alabama formerly categorically denied bail to undocumented
    immigrants as well, see 
    Ala. Code § 31-13-18
    (b), but the state has
    concluded that § 31-13-18(b) violates the Alabama Constitution, and the
    law is no longer in force. See Dismissal Order and Stipulated Permanent
    Injunction, Hispanic Interest Coal. of Alabama v. Bentley, No. 5:11-CV-
    2484-SLB (N.D. Ala. Nov. 25, 2013), at 2 n.4 (“The State Defendants
    further represent that in light of Article 1, Section 16, of the Alabama
    Constitution, they understand that Section 19(b) of H.B. 56 (
    Ala. Code § 31-13-18
    (b)) can only be applied to deny bail to persons arrested for a
    capital crime, and cannot be applied to deny bail to individuals arrested for
    or charged solely with non-capital crimes, regardless of their immigration
    status.”).
    32             LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    convicted criminal aliens briefly detained during their civil
    deportation proceedings. Demore, however, applied rational
    basis review, not heightened scrutiny, because it involved
    federal regulation of immigration. See Demore, 
    538 U.S. at
    521–28.      Such regulations have to meet only “the
    (unexacting) standard of rationally advancing some legitimate
    governmental purpose,” Flores, 
    507 U.S. at 306
    ; see also
    Fiallo v. Bell, 
    430 U.S. 787
    , 793 (1977); Mathews, 
    426 U.S. at
    79–80, not the heightened scrutiny required under Salerno.
    Demore, moreover, involved a class of detainees who had
    already been convicted of serious crimes, see 
    538 U.S. at 513
    ,
    a “very limited” period of detention, 
    id.
     at 529–30 & n.12,
    and extensive evidence and findings establishing the need for
    the policy, see 
    id. at 513
    , 518–20, 528.
    In sum, we hold that the Proposition 100 laws do not
    satisfy the heightened substantive due process scrutiny
    Salerno requires. Although the state has a compelling interest
    in assuring that arrestees, including undocumented
    immigrants, appear for trial, Proposition 100 is not carefully
    limited to serve that interest.
    We further hold that the laws are facially unconstitutional.
    See Wash. State Grange, 
    552 U.S. at 449
    . Because
    Proposition 100 is not “carefully limited” as Salerno’s
    heightened scrutiny test requires, “the entire statute fails
    [Salerno’s] decision rule and would thus be invalid in all of
    its applications.” Scott A. Keller & Misha Tseytlin, Applying
    Constitutional Decision Rules Versus Invalidating Statutes in
    Toto, 
    98 Va. L. Rev. 301
    , 331 (2012) (emphasis added).
    Even persons who could be detained consistent with due
    process under a different categorical statute, or who would be
    detained under Proposition 100 if it afforded an
    individualized determination, could successfully challenge
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                             33
    the Proposition 100 laws on the same grounds relied on in our
    opinion, namely, failure to provide either a valid categorical
    exclusion from bail or an individualized determination. See
    Foucha, 
    504 U.S. at
    80–83 (invalidating in toto a statute that
    categorically required commitment of all people found not
    guilty by reason of insanity as a violation of substantive due
    process (citing Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at
    747–51, 755)); Citizens
    United v. Fed. Election Comm’n, 
    558 U.S. 310
    , 376 (2010)
    (Roberts, C.J., concurring) (explaining that facial invalidation
    is appropriate when, “[g]iven the nature of th[e] claim and
    defense, . . . any other [plaintiff] raising the same challenge
    would also win”); Keller & Tseytlin, supra, at 322 (“[E]very
    person has the right not to be subject to an unconstitutional
    law – that is, a law that violates a textual decision rule.”).13
    There exists, therefore, “‘no set of circumstances . . . under
    which [the Proposition 100 laws] would be valid.’” Wash.
    State Grange, 
    552 U.S. at 449
     (quoting Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 745
    ).
    13
    Keller and Tseytlin explain that “the Supreme Court has created
    various constitutional decision rules to enforce the Constitution’s
    provisions and constrain lower courts as they adjudicate constitutional
    disputes.” Keller & Tseytlin, supra, at 320. The authors identify “two
    broad categories of decision rules: textual decision rules and enforcement
    decision rules.” Id. at 322. Textual decision rules “require courts to
    examine the statutory text enacted by the legislature or the circumstances
    surrounding that text’s enactment.” Id. Enforcement decision rules, by
    contrast, “direct courts to examine the particular facts surrounding the
    executive’s or the judiciary’s enforcement of a statute instead of the
    statutory text itself.” Id. at 324. Salerno’s heightened scrutiny substantive
    due process test, which we apply here, is a textual decision rule, and
    application of such a rule will lead to in toto invalidation where, as here,
    “the litigants’ arguments and the courts’ inquiries focused on the entire
    statutory coverage.” Id. at 339.
    34             LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    Furthermore, the Proposition 100 laws have been fully
    implemented, so there is no possibility that Arizona or
    Maricopa County will implement them in a narrower,
    constitutional manner, cf. Wash. State Grange, 
    552 U.S. at 450
    , and the defendants have not suggested any “reasonable”
    or “readily apparent” narrowing construction that would
    make the laws constitutional, Stenberg v. Carhart, 
    530 U.S. 914
    , 944 (2000) (quoting Boos v. Barry, 
    485 U.S. 312
    , 330
    (1988)) (internal quotation marks omitted)). Accordingly, the
    laws are facially unconstitutional.
    2.
    We next consider whether the Proposition 100 laws
    violate substantive due process by imposing punishment
    before trial. See Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 746
    . “To determine
    whether a restriction on liberty constitutes impermissible
    punishment or permissible regulation, we first look to
    legislative intent.” 
    Id. at 747
    . “Unless [the legislature]
    expressly intended to impose punitive restrictions, the
    punitive/regulatory distinction turns on whether an alternative
    purpose to which the restriction may rationally be connected
    is assignable for it, and whether it appears excessive in
    relation to the alternative purpose assigned to it.” 
    Id.
    (alterations and internal quotation marks omitted).
    To discern legislative intent, the district court considered
    both (1) the legislative record before the Arizona legislature
    that passed and referred Proposition 100 to the voters and
    (2) statements made during the referendum drive and in
    election materials. The court concluded that the legislative
    record “suggests that Proposition 100 may have been
    motivated by a desire to punish for past crimes, but there is
    also evidence that legislators considered the issue of flight
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                             35
    risk.” Similarly, the court concluded that the “voter materials
    contained some official statements reflecting a punitive
    purpose, but ultimately the message was mixed.” And the
    court ultimately concluded that “the record as a whole does
    not support a finding that Proposition 100 was motivated by
    an improper punitive purpose.” Given the mixed nature of
    the evidence of legislative and voter intent, and the difficulty
    in attributing motives to the electorate, we see no reason to
    revisit those conclusions on appeal. By assuming without
    deciding that Proposition 100 does not have a punitive
    purpose, however, we do not minimize the considerable
    evidence of punitive intent found in this record.14 There is
    14
    A partial summary of that evidence: State Representative Russell
    Pearce, the bill’s sponsor, stated that Proposition 100 “just simply bridges
    the gap, a loophole in the law that would allow people who are not in this
    country [ ]legally who have no business to be released if they commit any
    crime, they have no business being released if they commit no crime, no
    additional crime [be]cause they’re already in this country illegally.”
    Senate Judiciary Committee Meeting on H.B. 2389 and HCR 2028, 47th
    Leg., 1st Regular Sess. (Ariz. 2005). Said Pearce, “[B]ad enough you’re
    illegal but you commit a serious crime you ought not to be bondable.” 
    Id.
    He added: “[T]his bill targets very simply those who commit serious,
    serious [criminal] acts in our community. A very responsible bill to
    protect our citizens from those who would enter our country illegally and
    commit serious crimes against us . . . .” 
    Id.
     Rep. Pearce promoted the bill
    on the ground that “all illegal aliens in this country ought to be detained,
    debriefed and deported.” 
    Id.
     He reiterated: “If you’re in this country
    illegally you ought to be detained [and] deported[.] [E]nd of story,” and
    he defended the bill as a “reasonable approach” to border security. 
    Id.
    State Representative Ray Barnes expressly promoted the bill on the
    assumption that “the mere fact that they’re here undocumented [means]
    that the crime has already been committed.” House Judiciary Committee
    Meeting on H.B. 2389, 47th Leg., 1st Regular Sess. (Ariz. 2005). State
    Senator Jack Harper said, “what part of illegal don’t we understand?
    Illegal aliens shouldn’t be able to get bond for anything.” Senate
    Judiciary Committee Meeting on H.B. 2389 and HCR 2028, 47th Leg., 1st
    Regular Sess. (Ariz. 2005). In a hearing on a bill to implement
    36                 LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    strong evidence that Proposition 100 was motivated at least
    in significant part by a desire to punish undocumented
    immigrants for (1) entering and remaining in the country
    without authorization and (2) allegedly committing the
    charged offense.15
    Nevertheless, assuming that Proposition 100 was adopted
    for the permissible regulatory purpose of managing flight
    risk, “the punitive/regulatory distinction turns on whether”
    Proposition 100 “appears excessive in relation to the
    alternative purpose assigned to it.” Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 747
    (alterations and internal quotation marks omitted). As
    discussed earlier, Salerno held that the Bail Reform Act was
    not excessive where it addressed a “pressing societal
    Proposition 100 after its passage, State Representative John Kavanagh
    said: “I’m amazed that we provide bail to anybody who’s arrested for a
    crime that’s an illegal alien . . . . I therefore support this bill as a first step
    to what we should be really doing and that’s deporting anybody here
    illegally.” House Floor Meeting on S.B. 1265, 48th Leg., 1st Regular
    Sess. (Ariz. 2007).
    15
    Denying an arrestee bail for either of these reasons would be
    impermissible. Being present in the United States without authorization
    is not a crime, see Arizona v. United States, 
    132 S. Ct. at 2505
     (“As a
    general rule, it is not a crime for a removable alien to remain present in the
    United States.”), and even if it were, only the federal government would
    be permitted to impose punishment for it, see 
    id. at 2509
     (“[I]t would
    disrupt the federal framework to put state officers in the position of
    holding aliens in custody for possible unlawful presence without federal
    direction and supervision.”). And bail could not be denied to punish
    arrestees for their charged, but unproven, crimes. See Bell, 
    441 U.S. at 535
     (“[U]nder the Due Process Clause, a [defendant] may not be punished
    prior to an adjudication of guilt in accordance with due process of law.”);
    Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at
    746 (citing Bell for the proposition that pretrial
    detention violates substantive due process when it constitutes
    “impermissible punishment before trial”).
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                    37
    problem,” “carefully limit[ed] the circumstances under which
    detention may be sought to the most serious of crimes” and
    entitled the arrestee to “a prompt detention hearing” at which
    an individualized determination of dangerousness was
    required. 
    Id.
     By contrast, Proposition 100 is excessive in
    relation to its stated legitimate purpose because it purports to
    deal with a societal ill – unmanageable flight risk posed by
    undocumented immigrants as a class – that has not been
    shown to exist. Even if we assume that a problem exists,
    Proposition 100 employs a profoundly overbroad irrebuttable
    presumption, rather than an individualized evaluation, to
    determine whether an arrestee is an unmanageable flight risk.
    As discussed, this mechanism necessarily results in the
    deprivation of liberty even where not necessary to ensure
    appearance at trial, because undocumented immigrants who
    do not pose a flight risk or who pose a manageable one are
    categorically denied bail based solely on their status. Given
    this severe lack of fit between the asserted nonpunitive
    purpose and the actual operation of the law, we conclude that
    Proposition 100’s bail provisions are punitive rather than
    regulatory. Thus, the Proposition 100 laws facially violate
    substantive due process by imposing punishment before trial.
    IV.
    To conclude, Proposition 100 categorically denies bail or
    other pretrial release and thus requires pretrial detention for
    every undocumented immigrant charged with any of a broad
    range of felonies, regardless of the seriousness of the offense
    or the individual circumstances of the arrestee, including the
    arrestee’s strong ties to and deep roots in the community.
    The defendants maintain that this unusual, sweeping pretrial
    detention statute, directed solely at undocumented
    immigrants, comports with substantive due process. It does
    38             LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    not. The Supreme Court has made clear that “[i]n our society
    liberty is the norm, and detention prior to trial or without trial
    is the carefully limited exception.” Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 755
    .
    The “narrowly focuse[d]” pretrial release statute upheld in
    Salerno provided a “careful delineation of the circumstances
    under which detention will be permitted.” 
    Id.
     at 750–51. In
    contrast, the Proposition 100 laws do not address an
    established “particularly acute problem,” are not limited to “a
    specific category of extremely serious offenses,” and do not
    afford the individualized determination of flight risk or
    dangerousness that Salerno deemed essential. 
    Id. at 750
    .
    These laws represent a “scattershot attempt” at addressing
    flight risk and are not narrowly tailored to serve a compelling
    interest. 
    Id.
     In addition, and for the same reasons, the
    challenged laws are excessive in relation to the state’s
    legitimate interest in assuring arrestees’ presence for trial.
    They therefore impermissibly impose punishment before an
    adjudication of guilt. For these reasons, we hold that the
    Proposition 100 laws violate the substantive component of the
    Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment on these
    two independent grounds. Because we hold that the laws
    facially violate substantive due process, we do not reach the
    plaintiffs’ procedural due process, Eighth Amendment, Sixth
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                             39
    Amendment and preemption claims.16 The judgment of the
    district court is reversed.
    REVERSED AND REMANDED.
    NGUYEN, Circuit Judge, concurring:
    I agree with the majority that Proposition 100 violates
    substantive due process. However, the majority assumes,
    without deciding, that Proposition 100 was not motivated by
    an improper punitive purpose. I write separately to address
    the extraordinary record of legislative intent, which I believe
    demonstrates that Proposition 100 was intentionally drafted
    to punish undocumented immigrants for their “illegal” status,
    even if they pose no flight risk or danger to the community.
    This record also sheds light on why the law’s provisions are
    excessive in so many respects. Acknowledging the improper
    16
    We disagree with Judge O’Scannlain’s argument that the Proposition
    100 laws must be evaluated under the Excessive Bail Clause of the Eighth
    Amendment rather than the substantive component of the Due Process
    Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Dissent at 66–70. The Supreme
    Court applied substantive due process review to bail-denial schemes in
    Salerno and Schall. Judge O’Scannlain would distinguish those cases on
    the ground that they involved the denial of bail for dangerousness rather
    than flight risk, but the Supreme Court has never recognized – or even
    suggested – that distinction. See, e.g., Zadvydas, 
    533 U.S. at
    690 (citing
    Salerno as setting out the general standard for detention in criminal cases);
    Foucha, 
    504 U.S. at
    83 (citing Salerno as setting out the general standard
    for the “pretrial detention of arrestees”). As Judge O’Scannlain
    recognizes, Dissent at 71, the parties also have not “thorough[ly]
    brief[ed]” the Eighth Amendment issues. For these reasons, we properly
    rely on substantive due process rather than the Eighth Amendment to
    address Proposition 100’s constitutionality.
    40            LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    legislative purpose in this case not only aids our substantive
    due process analysis, but also reaffirms our constitutional
    commitment to provide due process to all, regardless of
    immigration status.
    I
    The Supreme Court has instructed that “[t]o determine
    whether a restriction on liberty constitutes impermissible
    punishment or permissible regulation, we first look to
    legislative intent.” United States v. Salerno, 
    481 U.S. 739
    ,
    747 (1987) (citing Schall v. Martin, 
    467 U.S. 253
    , 269
    (1984)). Absent evidence of express intent to punish, the
    analysis depends on whether the restrictions are reasonably
    connected to a legitimate purpose, and whether they appear
    excessive in relation to that purpose. Bell v. Wolfish,
    
    441 U.S. 520
    , 538–39 (1979); Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 747
    .
    However, whether a statute is intended as punitive, or
    excessive in relation to some legitimate purpose, are not
    analytically distinct inquiries. One informs the other:
    Thus, if a particular restriction of pretrial
    detention is reasonably related to a legitimate
    governmental objective, it does not, without
    more, amount to “punishment.” Conversely,
    if a restriction or condition is not reasonably
    related to a legitimate goal—if it is arbitrary
    or purposeless—a court permissibly may infer
    that the purpose of the governmental action is
    punishment that may not constitutionally be
    inflicted upon detainees qua detainees.
    Bell, 
    441 U.S. at 539
     (footnote omitted). Conceptually, this
    makes sense. Because the ultimate question is whether or not
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                    41
    a statute constitutes impermissible punishment, we may
    consider both what legislators had to say about the law they
    crafted, and the extent to which the law was drawn
    accordingly.
    Significantly, “the mere invocation of a legitimate
    purpose will not justify particular restrictions and conditions
    of confinement amounting to punishment.” Schall, 
    467 U.S. at 269
    . Even if the restrictions “serve legitimate regulatory
    purposes, it is still necessary to determine whether the terms
    and conditions of confinement under [the challenged statute]
    are in fact compatible with those purposes.” 
    Id.
     (citing
    Kennedy v. Mendoza-Martinez, 
    372 U.S. 144
    , 168–69
    (1963)).
    These inquiries do not lend themselves to a rigid,
    formulaic approach. Rather, “each case has turned on its own
    highly particularized context.” Flemming v. Nestor, 
    363 U.S. 603
    , 616 (1960). Where the record of legislative intent is
    inconclusive, the Supreme Court has not hesitated to
    consider—rather expansively, in fact—the nature and history
    of the restraint, among other factors. Mendoza-Martinez,
    
    372 U.S. at
    168–69. See also Bell, 
    441 U.S. at 538
     (“The
    factors identified in Mendoza-Martinez provide useful
    guideposts in determining whether particular restrictions and
    conditions accompanying pretrial detention amount to
    punishment in the constitutional sense of that word.”).
    The facts of this case illustrate precisely why legislative
    intent and tailoring have been considered two sides of the
    same coin. I therefore turn to some of the record evidence
    that informs my judgment regarding the unconstitutionality
    of Proposition 100.
    42                LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    II
    A
    Proposition 100 was sponsored by former State
    Representative Russell Pearce. Introducing the bill to the
    Senate Judiciary Committee, Representative Pearce noted that
    a majority of Americans “want the border secured, [and] our
    laws enforced,” and described Proposition 100 as a “very
    reasonable approach” to accomplishing those ends.1 Senate
    Judiciary Committee Meeting on H.B. 2389 and H.C.R. 2028,
    Mar. 28, 2005, 47th Leg., 1st Regular Sess. (Ariz. 2005). He
    described the purpose of Proposition 100: “[W]hen people are
    in this country illegally and they commit a serious felony they
    ought not to be bondable . . . .” 
    Id.
     Although he alluded
    generally to the supposed dangers that “violent aliens” pose
    to the public, he did not cite a single example or any other
    evidence of the problem,2 and instead elaborated:
    1
    According to Pearce, Proposition 100 was originally part of a package
    of legislation intended to “secure the borders.” The package also
    included: the Fair and Legal Employment Act, 
    Ariz. Rev. Stat. § 23-212
    ,
    which imposes penalties on employers for hiring undocumented
    immigrants; Proposition 102, Ariz. Const. art. II, § 35, a constitutional
    amendment to deny undocumented immigrants standing to recover in civil
    suits; Proposition 103, Ariz. Const. art. XXVIII, § 2, declaring English as
    the official language of Arizona; and Proposition 300, 
    Ariz. Rev. Stat. §§ 15-191.01
    , 15-232, 15-1803, 15-1825, 46-801, 46-803, which prohibits
    undocumented aliens from receiving child care assistance, and those
    enrolled in public community colleges and universities from receiving the
    benefit of in-state tuition rates and financial aid, or participating in adult
    education classes.
    2
    The record reflects that Proposition 100’s sponsors and supporters also
    presumed that undocumented immigrants are categorically more
    dangerous than other arrestees. In these proceedings, however, appellees
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                     43
    I mean, you know bad enough you’re illegal
    but you commit a serious crime you ought not
    to be bondable unless you’re released after
    prosecution, after you do your time to ICE
    and then to be deported. In fact, all illegal
    aliens in this country ought to be detained,
    debriefed, and deported . . . .
    
    Id.
     He continued:
    Violent criminals in our society who, again,
    may not be brought to justice if they’re
    released and should not be released first of all,
    according to federal law, but they’re to be
    deported, so seriously, they’ve committed [a]
    serious crime, I think that this just simply
    bridges the gap, a loophole in the law that
    would allow people who are not in this
    country [ ]legally who have no business to be
    released if they commit any crime, they have
    no business being released if they commit no
    crime, no additional crime [be]cause they’re
    already in this country illegally.
    
    Id.
     (emphasis added). Maricopa County Attorney Andrew
    Thomas, whose office played a central role in drafting
    Proposition 100, also testified before the Committee. Thomas
    explained the purpose of the bill as follows:
    I believe it is time to end the first class tickets
    that we have been giving from our jails for
    have wisely abandoned this premise because it is completely
    unsubstantiated.
    44               LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    serious criminals. . . . [C]ertain serious
    criminals currently enjoy this simply because
    of their status as illegal immigrants and I
    believe that we need to take action to put an
    end to this.
    
    Id.
     In his testimony, Thomas, much like Representative
    Pearce, alluded to “numerous examples of serious and violent
    criminals that Maricopa County Attorney’s Office has
    prosecuted in the past that have escaped justice”—but also
    could not cite a single case to support his position.3
    Testifying later in these proceedings, Thomas again could not
    identify a single such case, and further conceded that his
    office did not possess any data or information illustrating the
    problem.
    During the same Judiciary Committee hearing, State
    Senator Bill Brotherton raised concerns about the breadth of
    the bill. Senator Brotherton gave an example—a student who
    overstayed his or her visa and was charged with pirating
    music online would automatically be denied bail, even though
    a judge might not consider such a defendant a flight risk.
    Senate Judiciary Committee Meeting on H.B. 2389 and
    H.C.R. 2028, Mar. 28, 2005, 47th Leg., 1st Regular Sess.
    (Ariz. 2005). Representative Pearce dismissed this concern
    3
    The only specific case Thomas discussed was that of Oscar Garcia
    Martinez, who, according to Thomas, was released on bail, and deported
    by the federal government, rendering him unavailable to the state. 
    Id.
    Sometime later Martinez apparently reentered, and was present at a
    confrontation that resulted in the shooting of a police officer by a third
    party. 
    Id.
     However troubling Martinez’s case may be, it certainly does
    not demonstrate that undocumented immigrants pose a greater flight risk,
    given that it was the federal government that rendered Martinez absent.
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                    45
    as an attempt to “muddy the waters,” 
    id.,
     and reiterated the
    intent of the bill:
    The fact that we would continue to try to put
    some veil over what’s really happening and
    try to paint this face of this poor student who
    overstays his visa, everybody knows what this
    is targeting. This is, you know, and my issue
    is very simple. This bill doesn’t go as far as it
    ought to go. This is a very modest bill. If
    you’re in this country illegally you ought to be
    detained, deported[,] end of story.
    
    Id.
     Similarly, when Senator Brotherton expressed his concern
    that altering a lottery ticket ought not to be a non-bondable
    offense, State Senator Jack W. Harper interjected:
    To that point, what part of illegal don’t we
    understand? Illegal aliens shouldn’t be able
    to get bond for anything let alone a Class 1, 2,
    or 3 felony. . . . We need to just get off the
    subject of lottery ticket[s] because
    fraudulently altering lottery tickets is a crime
    and they shouldn’t make bail for anything, so
    let’s just move on.
    
    Id.
     (emphases added). Ultimately, the Committee amended
    the legislation to specify that, should the ballot measure pass,
    the Legislature would reserve to itself the task of defining
    “serious felony offense.” To that end, Representative Pearce
    introduced legislation that would define “serious felony
    offense” as entailing any class 1, 2, 3, or 4 felony, as well as
    aggravated driving under the influence. House Floor Meeting
    on H.B. 2580, Mar. 7, 2006, 47th Leg., 2nd Regular Sess.
    46               LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    (Ariz. 2006). That bill was eventually passed by the
    Legislature, and signed into law.
    Months later, Proposition 100 was referred to the state’s
    voters. The ballot materials did not inform voters of the
    definition of “serious felony offense,” or that it included
    many non-violent offenses. Instead, in a statement of support
    on the ballot, Representative Pearce warned voters of
    “[l]arge, well-organized gangs of illegal aliens,” and the need
    to keep such “dangerous thugs in jail rather than releasing
    them onto the streets.” Publicity Pamphlet Issued by Janice
    K. Brewer, then-Arizona Secretary of State, Ballot
    Propositions & Judicial Performance Review, General
    Election, Nov. 7, 2006, available at http://www.azsos.gov/
    election/2006/info/pubpamphlet/english/Prop100.htm.
    Maricopa County Attorney Thomas urged voters4:
    Thanks to an amendment approved
    overwhelmingly by voters in 2002, the
    Arizona Constitution now denies bail to
    defendants accused of rape and child
    molestation. This proposition similarly would
    deny bail to illegal immigrants who pose a
    clear danger to society and who too often use
    4
    Thomas also claimed: “Other examples of illegal immigrants who
    made bail and avoided prosecution for serious crimes include accused
    child predators, armed robbers, drug dealers and other accused criminals.”
    
    Id.
     The only example Thomas provided, however, was the case of Oscar
    Martinez. See supra at note 3. And, as another legislator later correctly
    noted, “[t]hose individuals who are accused of committing heinous crimes
    [such as those cited by Proposition 100’s supporters] are already denied
    bail under current state statutes . . . .” House Floor Meeting on S.B. 1265,
    June 7, 2007, 48th Leg., 1st Regular Sess. (Ariz. 2007) (statement of Rep.
    Krysten Sinema).
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                 47
    our border as an escape route. Our state
    constitution was not intended to “bail out”
    illegal immigration. I urge you to vote yes to
    end this abuse of our criminal justice system.
    Id. Don Goldwater, a gubernatorial candidate, placed this
    statement on the ballot:
    I commit to you that, as your Governor, I will
    apply all legal measures to protect and defend
    Arizonans from the illegal invasion. This
    Ballot Measure addresses one area that needs
    to be resolved in this fight to secure our
    borders and reduced the level of crime in our
    neighborhoods.
    It is embarrassing to have our state lead the
    nation in crime. Unfortunately, the current
    governor has vetoed ten separate bills sent to
    her desk the legislature that were written to
    protect you from illegal immigration.
    Id. By contrast, the sole statement of opposition to
    Proposition 100, signed by several individuals, cautioned:
    Prop 100 would . . . create a sub-class of
    people within the justice system based solely
    on race or national origin, and unnecessarily
    penalize people who pose little or no risk to
    the community. This proposition would do
    nothing more than institutionalize bias and
    48            LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    discrimination in the justice system, at
    taxpayer expense.
    Id. Voters approved the constitutional amendment.
    After the popular vote, follow-on legislation was
    introduced that would have lowered the standard of proof
    applicable to the determination of immigration status from
    “proof evident and presumption great,” to “preponderance of
    the evidence.” Pearce rose on the floor of the House to
    oppose the bill because, in his view, it did not lower the
    standard even further, to “probable cause.” In his opposition,
    Pearce repeatedly emphasized the immigrants’ “illegal”
    status:
    You don’t need to make that kind of a
    standard for preponderance or anything else to
    the charge[,] they are here illegally . . . . they
    are here illegally, they have no business being
    released no [matter] what the charge in reality
    because they’re a flight risk. They’re here
    illegally. They need to be turned over to ICE
    ....
    House Floor Meeting on S.B. 1265, June 7, 2007, 48th Leg.,
    1st Regular Sess. (Ariz. 2007). Representative John
    Kavanagh raised similar arguments. Id. Ultimately, the
    measure to set the burden of proof at “preponderance of the
    evidence” failed. Days later, discussing an amendment to
    lower the standard to “probable cause,” Representative
    Kavanagh explained his support for the latter:
    I’m amazed that we provide bail to anybody
    who’s arrested for a crime that’s an illegal
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                           49
    alien. I think anybody, regardless if it’s
    serious or a minor crime[,] should be denied
    bail . . . . We should deny bail to anybody
    here illegally who’s picked up. I therefore
    support this bill as a first step to what we
    should be really doing and that’s deporting
    anybody here illegally.
    House Floor Meeting on S.B. 1265, June 13, 2007, 48th Leg.,
    1st Regular Sess. (Ariz. 2007). The amendment lowering the
    standard of proof to “probable cause” passed.
    While this is by no means an exhaustive survey of the
    evidence of punitive intent to be found in the record, the
    foregoing summary at least conveys the tenor of the
    legislative debates and ballot materials. The hostility directed
    toward undocumented immigrants based solely on their status
    could not be more obvious.
    B
    I acknowledge, of course, that there are references in the
    record to flight risk—indisputably, a legitimate objective of
    regulation, Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 749
    ; Bell, 
    441 U.S. at
    534—and more specifically, the unsupported premise that
    undocumented immigrants inherently pose a greater flight
    risk than other arrestees.5 But there is nothing unusual about
    5
    For example, in one exchange, Representative Pearce asked:
    “[W]ouldn’t you agree that somebody that’s not in this country legally
    probably is a greater flight risk than somebody who is, who has roots here
    and is a citizen here?” House Floor Meeting on S.B. 1265, June 7, 2007,
    48th Leg., 1st Regular Sess. (Ariz. 2007). State Representative Pete Rios,
    who previously served as the first Latino president of Arizona’s State
    Senate, responded: “I know of some people in this country who don’t have
    50               LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    a “mixed” legislative record; legislators and voters often take
    positions for diverse reasons.
    Indeed, the very concept of legislative intent can be
    “elusive,” Mendoza-Martinez, 
    372 U.S. at 168
    , and
    [j]udicial inquiries into [legislative] motives
    are at best a hazardous matter, and when that
    inquiry seeks to go behind objective
    manifestations it becomes a dubious affair
    indeed.     Moreover, the presumption of
    constitutionality with which this enactment,
    like any other, comes to us forbids us lightly
    to choose that reading of the statute’s setting
    which will invalidate it over that which will
    save it.
    Flemming, 
    363 U.S. at 617
    . But recognizing the perils of
    second-guessing legislative intent does not relieve us of the
    responsibility to ascertain the law’s purpose, particularly here
    because, in my view, the overriding legislative intent is so
    apparent. See Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 747
     (in evaluating
    restrictions on liberty, “we first look to legislative intent”).
    That there are references to flight risk, as noted by the
    dissent, illustrates why the Supreme Court has prescribed a
    mutually-reinforcing, twin-pronged framework for analysis.
    See Bell, 
    441 U.S. at 539
    . To the extent there is any doubt
    about the purpose of Proposition 100, the statements in the
    proper documentation that probably have deeper roots in the state of
    Arizona than I do. They’ve been here for a couple of generations, they’ve
    got grandkids, so I mean that, in itself, I think does not determine whether
    or not one is a flight risk.” 
    Id.
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                    51
    legislative record further support the conclusion, consistent
    with the majority’s analysis of its various provisions, that the
    law was intended as punishment.
    This principle rings true at a general level—naturally, the
    law’s drafting and design sheds light on its purpose, and vice
    versa—but it also informs my analysis of the law’s specific
    provisions. For example, a number of Proposition 100’s
    excesses, including the evident overbreadth of the critical
    term “serious felony offense,” were pointed out to the bill’s
    sponsors in Committee. As noted above, Senator Brotherton
    drew attention to the specific examples of illegal
    downloading and alteration of a lottery ticket to emphasize
    the law’s excessive reach. See Senate Judiciary Committee
    Meeting on H.B. 2389 and H.C.R. 2028, Mar. 28, 2005, 47th
    Leg., 1st Regular Sess. (Ariz. 2005). Yet, Proposition 100’s
    sponsors declined to narrow the definition of covered “serious
    felonies,” which renders “an exceedingly broad range of
    offenses” non-bondable. Maj. Op. at 23. Why Senator
    Brotherton’s concerns regarding Proposition 100’s
    excessiveness were brushed aside is plain from the
    record—because, as expressed by the bill’s supporters,
    “illegal aliens” “shouldn’t make bail for anything.” Senate
    Judiciary Committee Meeting on H.B. 2389 and H.C.R. 2028,
    Mar. 28, 2005, 47th Leg., 1st Regular Sess. (Ariz. 2005). The
    legislative debate over the standard of proof is also
    illustrative. Statements such as, “I’m amazed that we provide
    bail to anybody who’s arrested for a crime that’s an illegal
    alien,” House Floor Meeting on S.B. 1265, June 13, 2007,
    48th Leg., 1st Regular Sess. (Ariz. 2007), strongly suggest
    that the standard of proof was lowered in order to target
    undocumented immigrants as such, without respect to flight
    risk.
    52                LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    I agree with the majority that we do not affirmatively
    require formal legislative findings or other evidence, yet may
    find the absence of such a record to be significant.6 Maj. Op.
    at 23. I also readily acknowledge that there may be many
    cases where the mixed record renders legislative intent too
    elusive, or otherwise unknowable. This case, however, is not
    one of them. Intentionally meting out pretrial punishment for
    charged but unproven crimes, or the nonexistent crime of
    being “in this country illegally,”7 is without question, a
    violation of due process principles. Mendoza-Martinez,
    
    372 U.S. at 167
    ; Bell, 
    441 U.S. at 539
    .
    III
    “[I]t is not on slight implication and vague conjecture that
    the legislature is to be pronounced to have transcended its
    powers, and its acts considered to be void,” Fletcher v. Peck,
    
    6 Cranch 87
    , 128 (1810) (Marshall, C.J.), and I do not reach
    that conclusion lightly.          However, the unequivocal
    expressions of penal intent in the record, viewed together
    with the excesses of the law’s various provisions, lead me to
    conclude that Proposition 100 is facially unconstitutional.
    6
    Nobody disputes that there is no such evidence in the record. The
    dissent observes that undocumented immigrants reportedly commit a
    disproportionate share of felonies in Arizona. Tallman dissent at 59
    (citing Arizona v. United States, 
    132 S. Ct. 2492
    , 2500 (2012)). But even
    assuming that is true, it does not suggest undocumented immigrants
    overall are more likely to flee than other arrestees, nor does it shed light on
    the flight risk posed by any given individual defendant.
    7
    The majority correctly points out that, “[a]s a general rule, it is not a
    crime for a removable alien to remain present in the United States.”
    Arizona, 
    132 S. Ct. at 2505
    .
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                    53
    TALLMAN, Circuit Judge, with whom Circuit Judge
    O’SCANNLAIN joins, dissenting:
    In striking down Proposition 100, the majority sets aside
    the policy judgment of the Arizona legislature and nearly 80
    percent of Arizona’s voting electorate, telling the State it
    really doesn’t have an illegal immigration problem adversely
    affecting its criminal justice system. But Arizonans thought
    Proposition 100 was the solution to an ineffective bail system
    that was letting too many illegal aliens avoid answering for
    their serious felony charges. They were concerned that these
    offenders, who often lack community ties, too often skirt
    justice by fleeing the state or the country before trial.
    Plaintiffs-Appellants Lopez-Valenzuela and Castro-Armenta
    are good examples. Between the two of them they were
    charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon,
    kidnapping, theft by extortion, assisting a criminal syndicate,
    and transportation of a dangerous drug.
    Today’s holding leaves Arizona nowhere to turn. For
    years before Arizona passed Proposition 100, it tried to assess
    flight risk based on family ties, employment, and length of
    residency in the community on an individualized basis.
    Immigration status was assuredly a critical consideration in
    this assessment, even well before Proposition 100’s
    enactment. The majority ignores reality to suggest otherwise.
    Yet despite these individualized flight-risk assessments, the
    Maricopa County Attorney explained in 2006 that Arizona
    still had a “tremendous problem with illegal immigrants
    coming into the state, committing serious crimes, and then
    absconding, and not facing trial for their crimes.” Lou Dobbs
    Tonight (CNN television broadcast Oct. 13, 2006). Faced
    with this continuing problem, Arizona took a logical next step
    by denying bail to illegal aliens who commit serious felony
    54                LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    offenses. Because Proposition 100 is not excessive in relation
    to Arizona’s compelling regulatory interest in ensuring that
    illegal aliens who commit serious felony offenses stand trial,
    I respectfully dissent.
    I
    A
    The majority’s errors begin with its substantive due
    process framework. It applies what it calls “Salerno’s
    heightened scrutiny” to Proposition 100. Maj. Op. at 15; see
    United States v. Salerno, 
    481 U.S. 739
     (1987). Under this
    test, it says, the law survives only when it is “narrowly
    tailored to serve a compelling state interest.” Maj. Op. at 17.
    This is strict scrutiny. See, e.g., Green v. City of Tucson, 
    340 F.3d 891
    , 896 (9th Cir. 2003) (Fisher, J.) (Under “strict
    scrutiny,” “the statute will be upheld only if the state can
    show that the statute is narrowly drawn to serve a compelling
    state interest.”). However, you will not find strict scrutiny
    mentioned, let alone applied, anywhere in Salerno.1
    The majority mistakenly applies strict scrutiny by
    misreading Salerno, which addressed the consideration of
    danger to the community in bail determinations, as holding
    that the Bail Reform Act implicated a fundamental liberty
    interest. Salerno held just the opposite. The Court
    1
    If you find it peculiar that the Supreme Court would apply strict
    scrutiny without telling us, you have good reason. It certainly knows how
    to say that it is applying strict scrutiny when it does so. See, e.g., Johnson
    v. California, 
    543 U.S. 499
    , 507 (2005) (explaining that it is applying
    “strict scrutiny”); Bush v. Vera, 
    517 U.S. 952
    , 976 (1996) (same); Miller
    v. Johnson, 
    515 U.S. 900
    , 920 (1995) (same); Bernal v. Fainter, 
    467 U.S. 216
    , 227 (1984) (same).
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                    55
    acknowledged that liberty, in its broadest sense, is a
    fundamental right. Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 750
    . It explained,
    however, that the right asserted in Salerno was more limited;
    it was the right to bail after “the Government proves by clear
    and convincing evidence that an arrestee presents an
    identified and articulable threat to an individual or the
    community.” 
    Id. at 751
    . As to that right, the Court said: “we
    cannot categorically state that pretrial detention ‘offends
    some principle of justice so rooted in the traditions and
    conscience of our people as to be ranked as fundamental.’”
    
    Id.
     (quoting Snyder v. Massachusetts, 
    291 U.S. 97
    , 105
    (1934)). Thus, rather than holding that liberty is a
    fundamental right in all instances, the Court held that the
    liberty right “under the[] circumstances” of the Bail Reform
    Act was not fundamental. 
    Id.
    The Court’s narrow construction of the liberty interest at
    stake in Salerno is consistent with its instruction that
    “‘[s]ubstantive due process’ analysis must begin with a
    careful description of the asserted right, for the doctrine of
    judicial self-restraint requires us to exercise the utmost care
    whenever we are asked to break new ground in this field.”
    Reno v. Flores, 
    507 U.S. 292
    , 302 (1993) (citations and
    internal quotations omitted). Thus, we must “carefully
    formulat[e]” the liberty interest, Washington v. Glucksberg,
    
    521 U.S. 702
    , 722 (1997), and define it “narrowly,” Flores v.
    Meese, 
    913 F.2d 1315
    , 1330 (9th Cir. 1990) (emphasis
    supplied). Only then can we determine whether the asserted
    right is fundamental.
    The majority ignores that instruction and concludes that
    the Bail Reform Act and Proposition 100 impinge on some
    generalized fundamental liberty right. In fact, the majority
    makes no effort to even define the right at stake. But it isn’t
    56               LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    simply “liberty” as the majority would have it. Rather,
    Proposition 100 implicates an arrestee’s alleged right to bail
    where the proof is evident or the presumption great that the
    arrestee committed a serious felony offense,2 and there is
    probable cause to believe the arrestee has entered or remained
    in the United States illegally. That is, the right is not merely
    to be free from detention, but to be free from detention “under
    these circumstances.” Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 751
    .
    In my view, this asserted right is not “so rooted in the
    traditions and conscience of our people as to be ranked
    fundamental.” Id.; see, e.g., Demore v. Kim, 
    538 U.S. 510
    ,
    522 (2003) (stating, in approving the detention of aliens
    awaiting deportation, that “this Court has firmly and
    repeatedly endorsed the proposition that Congress may make
    rules as to aliens that would be unacceptable if applied to
    citizens”); Carlson v. Landon, 
    342 U.S. 524
    , 545 (1952)
    (“The bail clause was lifted with slight changes from the
    English Bill of Rights Act. In England that clause has never
    been thought to accord a right to bail in all cases[.]”); United
    States v. Edwards, 
    430 A.2d 1321
    , 1327 (D.C. App. 1981)
    (“[A] fundamental right to bail was not universal among the
    colonies or among the early states;” “the language of several
    state constitutions explicitly limiting the power of the
    judiciary to set excessive bail negates any suggestion that the
    excessive bail clause was intended to restrict the definition of
    bailable offenses by the legislature.”), cert. denied, 
    455 U.S. 2
    “Serious felony offense” is statutorily defined as “any class 1, 2, 3 or
    4 felony or [aggravated driving under the influence].” 
    Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 13-3961
    (A)(5)(b).
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                            57
    1022 (1982). Because the right is not fundamental, strict
    scrutiny does not apply.3
    B
    Whatever substantive due process standard Salerno
    provides—and I concede that there is some ambiguity—
    Proposition 100 meets it. Nobody disputes that “Arizona has
    a compelling interest in ensuring that persons accused of
    serious crimes, including undocumented immigrants, are
    available for trial.” Maj. Op. at 19. And Proposition 100 is
    3
    Given that the Court in Salerno said that the right at issue was not
    fundamental, 
    id. at 751
    , and never applied strict scrutiny, how does the
    majority divine that strict scrutiny applies to Proposition 100? Apparently
    from a couple of fractured Supreme Court opinions that hint, but do not
    hold, that Salerno may have meant something it never said. See Flores,
    
    507 U.S. at 302
     (including Salerno in a string cite about defining
    “substantive due process”); Foucha v. Louisiana, 
    504 U.S. 71
    , 80–83
    (1992) (discussing Salerno but not elucidating its standard). I am not
    convinced.
    Flores cited Salerno merely for the proposition that there is “a
    substantive component” to the Constitution’s due process guarantee.
    Flores, 
    507 U.S. at
    302–03. Surely the majority would not suggest that
    the other cases cited in the same string cite—Collins v. City of Harker
    Heights, Tex., 
    503 U.S. 115
     (1992), and Bowers v. Hardwick, 
    478 U.S. 186
     (1986)—applied strict scrutiny to any fundamental right. Moreover,
    the page of Salerno cited simply defines “substantive due process”; it does
    not mention fundamental rights or strict scrutiny. See 
    481 U.S. at 746
    .
    Similarly, Foucha cites the same page of Salerno for the same limited
    proposition, surrounded by citations to cases that merely describe
    substantive due process. 
    504 U.S. at
    80 (citing Zinermon v. Burch,
    
    494 U.S. 113
     (1990); Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 746
    ; and Daniels v. Williams,
    
    474 U.S. 327
     (1986)). True, Foucha discusses Salerno at greater length,
    but for the circumstances in which a person can be detained because he
    poses “a danger to others or to the community,” not because of flight risk.
    Id. at 81.
    58               LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    “careful[ly] delineat[ed]” and “carefully limited”—it is even
    “narrowly focuse[d].” Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at
    750–51, 755.
    Several fundamental errors in the majority’s opinion lead it
    to conclude otherwise.
    First, by ignoring all evidence to the contrary, the
    majority concludes that “unmanageable flight risk posed by
    undocumented immigrants . . . has not been shown to exist.”
    Maj. Op. at 37. Tell that to the Maricopa County Attorney
    who, from his vantage on the front line just a month before
    the Proposition 100 vote, thought flight risk among illegal
    aliens in Arizona was “a tremendous problem.” Lou Dobbs
    Tonight (CNN television broadcast Oct. 13, 2006) (emphasis
    supplied).4 The majority insists that the record does not
    substantiate this claim, but the claim—by the Maricopa
    County Attorney no less—is part of the record.5 It is one
    thing for my colleagues to declare that Proposition 100 is an
    excessive measure to address Arizona’s flight problem;
    reasonable minds can disagree. It is quite another for an
    Article III court to tell Arizona, based on this record and
    considering the majority vote of the Arizona legislature and
    electorate in favor of Proposition 100, that its perceived
    4
    The prosecutor also testified before the Arizona Senate Judiciary
    Committee, explaining that there were “numerous examples of serious and
    violent criminals that [the] Maricopa County Attorney’s Office has
    prosecuted in the past that have escaped justice because they have []
    slipped back across the border after they’ve been released.” Senate
    Judiciary Committee Meeting on H.B. 2389, Mar. 28, 2005, 47th Leg., 1st
    Regular Sess. (Ariz. 2005).
    5
    The majority responds to the Maricopa County Attorney’s statements
    by attempting to discredit his testimony through extra-record evidence not
    cited to or relied on by any party. Maj. Op. at 22–23, n.6. Of course, the
    majority cannot so easily impeach the four out of five Arizona voters who
    must live with the problem the majority concludes does not exist.
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                     59
    problem is not really a problem. Maj. Op. at 37. Even the
    Arizona courts have concluded that “Proposition 100 reflects
    that [the Arizona] electorate and Legislature perceived
    pretrial detention as a potential solution to a pressing societal
    problem.” Hernandez v. Lynch, 
    167 P.3d 1264
    , 1274 (Ariz.
    Ct. App. 2007) (internal quotations and citations omitted).
    They are the ones who have to live with it.
    Second, the majority takes issue with Proposition 100 not
    being a widely shared legislative judgment because few states
    categorically deny bail for illegal aliens. Maj. Op. at 29–30.
    While factually true, perspective here is critical. As an initial
    matter, novelty alone does not render a law unconstitutional.
    See Ewing v. California, 
    538 U.S. 11
    , 24 (2003) (holding that
    defendant’s sentence under California’s novel “three strikes”
    law was not unconstitutional). In Ewing, the Supreme Court
    explained that “[t]hough three strikes laws may be relatively
    new, our tradition of deferring to state legislatures in making
    and implementing such important policy decisions is
    longstanding.” 
    Id.
     My colleagues give no deference to the
    policy judgment of the Arizona legislature or the democratic
    views of the electorate.
    Moreover, we cannot judge this case with blinders on.
    Arizona faces unique challenges as one of four states
    bordering Mexico. Indeed, “Arizona bears many of the
    consequences of unlawful immigration . . . . Unauthorized
    aliens who remain in the State comprise, by one estimate,
    almost six percent of the population.” Arizona v. United
    States, 
    132 S. Ct. 2492
    , 2500 (2012). “[I]n the State’s most
    populous county, these aliens are reported to be responsible
    for a disproportionate share of serious crime.” 
    Id.
     I find it
    hardly surprising that other states have not enacted their own
    Proposition 100 laws. Kansas, for example, may have its
    60               LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    share of illegal immigrants, but certainly not to the extent of
    Arizona. More importantly, only four states—Arizona
    among them—provide serious felony offenders with such a
    quick and convenient route into Mexico.6 Thus, while
    Proposition 100 may be relatively unique among the fifty
    states, that’s nothing more than a reflection of Arizona’s
    unique flight risk problem and geography.
    Third, the majority mistakenly demands “findings,
    studies, statistics or other evidence . . . showing that
    undocumented immigrants as a group pose either an
    unmanageable flight risk or a significantly greater flight risk
    than lawful residents.” Maj. Op. at 21. Arizona is not
    required to support its legislative judgment with empirical
    studies. This is a slippery slope on which the majority is
    quick to tread, and one which threatens the delicate balance
    between the judiciary and the people we serve.
    While we have imposed empirical fact-finding
    requirements in a few contexts,7 those are the exceptions to
    6
    The majority’s argument also ignores a host of practical concerns
    facing border states like Arizona, such as the time and expense in trying
    to apprehend felony fugitives in Mexico and elsewhere, and the
    cumbersome and lengthy extradition process required to bring fugitives
    back to Arizona to face justice.
    7
    The most prevalent example is in the context of content-based
    regulations under the First Amendment. See Video Software Dealers
    Ass’n v. Schwarzenegger, 
    556 F.3d 950
    , 962 (9th Cir. 2009). But even in
    the First Amendment context, the Supreme Court has explained that “[t]he
    quantum of empirical evidence needed to satisfy heightened judicial
    scrutiny of legislative judgments will vary up or down with the novelty
    and plausibility of the justification raised.” Nixon v. Shrink Mo. Gov’t
    PAC, 
    528 U.S. 377
    , 378 (2000). I find it neither novel nor implausible
    that a border state struggles to prevent serious felony offenders who are
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                             61
    the rule. See, e.g., Gonzales v. Raich, 
    545 U.S. 1
    , 21 (2005)
    (“[W]e have never required Congress to make particularized
    findings in order to legislate, absent a special concern such as
    the protection of free speech.” (citations omitted)). Indeed,
    the Supreme Court has explained that “[w]hile Congressional
    findings are certainly helpful . . . the absence of particularized
    findings does not call into question Congress’ authority to
    legislate.” 
    Id.
     We have never held that a state legislature—
    let alone a state’s voting electorate, as here—must prove its
    flight-risk concerns with empirical data. Nor have we been
    instructed to require supporting data in connection with
    pretrial detention schemes—not in Salerno and not in
    Demore.8 The majority’s empirical data requirement,
    imposed today by judicial fiat, is particularly inappropriate
    and dangerous in this case, where Arizona voters passed
    Proposition 100 by a whopping 78 percent. See Nixon, 
    528 U.S. at 394
     (observing, even under the heightened
    requirements of First Amendment challenges, that a 74-
    percent statewide vote passage rate “certainly attested to the
    in the country illegally from fleeing before trial. The majority decrees that
    Arizonans will just have to live with it.
    8
    In Salerno, the Supreme Court merely mentioned, in a single sentence
    and without any hint of a requirement, that Congress made findings in
    enacting the Bail Reform Act. 
    481 U.S. at 750
    . In Demore, the
    respondent argued that Congress had no evidence that individualized bond
    hearings would be ineffective, but the Court observed that Congress had
    evidence suggesting that permitting discretionary release of aliens pending
    their removal hearings would lead to large numbers of deportable criminal
    aliens absconding. 538 U.S. at 528. Demore did not hold that
    congressional fact-finding was required; but even if we read in such a
    requirement, Arizona’s legislators met that requirement by taking
    testimony to that effect. See Senate Judiciary Committee Meeting on H.B.
    2389, Mar. 28, 2005, 47th Leg., 1st Regular Sess. (Ariz. 2005).
    62             LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    perception” that the challenged law was necessary to remedy
    the state’s identified concern).
    Finally, the majority errs by effectively precluding the use
    of irrebuttable presumptions in the bail context. Proposition
    100 “plainly is not carefully limited,” says the majority,
    “because it employs an overbroad, irrebuttable presumption
    rather than an individualized hearing” to assess flight risk.
    Maj. Op. at 24. That conclusion relies on the premise that
    individualized hearings would solve Arizona’s troubles. In
    Demore, the Supreme Court upheld a categorical bail
    prohibition in part because individualized hearings had
    proven unsuccessful. 538 U.S. at 528. Here, like in Demore,
    Arizona has already tried determining flight risk on an
    individualized basis, considering factors such as family ties,
    employment, and length of residency in the community. If
    you believe the record—and Plaintiffs-Appellants have given
    us no reason not to—the pressing problem of illegal aliens
    absconding before trial survived these individualized
    hearings. Thus, Proposition 100’s lack of individualized
    flight risk determinations cannot render its irrebuttable
    presumption excessive. See Demore, 
    538 U.S. at 528
    .
    Applying well-established substantive due process
    principles to this record reveals that Proposition 100—while
    distasteful to some—survives substantive due process review.
    II
    The majority also errs by finding Proposition 100
    impermissibly punitive, although it purports to leave
    untouched the district court’s factual conclusion that
    Proposition 100 was not intended to impose punitive
    restrictions. Salerno provides the two-part test to determine
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                     63
    whether the pretrial detention scheme at issue constitutes
    “impermissible punishment or permissible regulation.”
    Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 747
    . First, we look to legislative intent
    to determine whether the legislature “expressly intended to
    impose punitive restrictions.” 
    Id.
     Second, we ask “whether
    an alternative purpose to which the restriction may rationally
    be connected is assignable for it, and whether it appears
    excessive in relation to the alternative purpose assigned to it.”
    
    Id.
     (alterations and internal quotation marks omitted). In
    other words, in the absence of an express punitive intent, “the
    punitive/regulatory distinction turns on” whether the pretrial
    detention scheme is “excessive in relation to the regulatory
    goal [the legislature] sought to achieve.” 
    Id.
    Reviewing the record as a whole, including legislative
    history and election-related materials, it is clear that Arizona
    legislators and voters passed Proposition 100 as a regulatory
    measure to ensure illegal aliens who commit serious felony
    offenses stand trial. But don’t just take my word for it, see
    Lopez-Valenzuela v. Cnty. of Maricopa, 
    719 F.3d 1054
    ,
    1060–61 (9th Cir. 2013) (reviewing the record de novo);
    District Judge Susan Bolton and the Arizona Court of
    Appeals conducted their own independent review of the
    record and reached the same conclusion, Lopez-Valenzuela v.
    Maricopa Cnty., No. 08-00660, at 10 (D. Ariz. March 29,
    2011) (“Having reviewed the voluminous evidence submitted
    in this case, the Court finds that the record as a whole does
    not support a finding that Proposition 100 was motivated by
    an improper punitive purpose.”); Hernandez, 
    167 P.3d at 1273
     (“[W]e hold that the purpose behind Proposition 100
    was not to punish illegal aliens, but to prevent them from
    fleeing before trial.”). The majority wisely declines to disturb
    these findings. Maj. Op. at 35 (“[W]e see no reason to revisit
    64            LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    those conclusions on appeal.”). Yet my colleagues spend
    several pages attempting to impeach them.
    Turning to the second step, we all agree that “Arizona has
    a compelling interest in ensuring that persons accused of
    serious crimes, including undocumented immigrants, are
    available for trial.” Maj. Op. at 19. But the majority
    concludes that Proposition 100 is excessive in relation to its
    purpose. Maj. Op. at 37. It isn’t.
    Proposition 100, like the Bail Reform Act, “carefully
    limits the circumstances under which detention may be
    sought.” Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 747
    . Two threshold
    requirements must be met before an individual can be denied
    bail pursuant to Proposition 100. First, the court must find,
    at the arrestee’s initial appearance, that there is probable
    cause to believe that the arrestee has entered or remained in
    the United States illegally. Ariz. R. Crim. P. 7.2(b). But
    more than that, the court must also find that the proof is
    evident or the presumption great that the individual
    committed a “serious felony offense.” Id.; Ariz. Const. art.
    II § 22(4).
    An arrestee is also able to challenge this initial
    determination by “mov[ing] for reexamination of the
    conditions of release.” Ariz. R. Crim. P. 7.4(b). Upon such
    a motion—and whether or not the arrestee alleges new
    facts—a hearing must be held on the record “as soon as
    practicable but not later than seven days after filing of the
    motion.” Id. These procedural and substantive protections
    make Proposition 100 far from a “scattershot attempt to
    incapacitate those who are merely suspected” of being in the
    country illegally or of committing a serious felony offense.
    Salerno, 
    481 U.S. at 750
     (emphasis supplied).
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                           65
    For years, Arizona tried making individualized flight-risk
    determinations for aliens alleged to have committed serious
    felony offenses. That system didn’t solve Arizona’s
    particularly acute flight-risk problem. Its voters then
    overwhelmingly approved Proposition 100 as a measured
    response in light of the state’s prior efforts. How can that be
    excessive?
    III
    The majority does not reach Plaintiffs-Appellants’
    remaining claims because it doesn’t have to. However, I
    remain convinced that the district court properly awarded
    Defendants-Appellees summary judgment on those claims as
    well. I stand by the reasons set forth in that opinion. See
    Lopez-Valenzuela, 719 F.3d at 1064–1073. For all these
    reasons, I respectfully dissent.
    O’SCANNLAIN, Circuit Judge, dissenting:
    Today, the majority divines, under the rubric of
    substantive due process, that Arizona’s categorical denial of
    bail is “excessive” notwithstanding the State’s interest in
    mitigating flight risk. Remarkably, the majority scarcely
    mentions the Constitution’s command that “[e]xcessive bail
    shall not be required.” U.S. Const. amend. VIII.
    I respectfully dissent from our expansion of substantive
    due process and neglect of express constitutional text.1
    1
    Because I believe that the majority’s substantive due process analysis
    is wrong as well as unnecessary, I also join Judge Tallman’s dissent.
    66            LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    I
    A
    “[R]eluctant to expand the concept of substantive due
    process,” Collins v. City of Harker Heights, Tex., 
    503 U.S. 115
    , 125 (1992), the Supreme Court held in Graham v.
    Connor, 
    490 U.S. 386
     (1989), that “[w]here a particular
    Amendment provides an explicit textual source of
    constitutional protection against a particular sort of
    government behavior, that Amendment, not the more
    generalized notion of substantive due process, must be the
    guide for analyzing these claims.” Cnty. of Sacramento v.
    Lewis, 
    523 U.S. 833
    , 842 (1998) (alteration in original)
    (quoting Albright v. Oliver, 
    510 U.S. 266
    , 273 (1994)
    (plurality opinion of Rehnquist, C.J.)). “Graham . . . requires
    that if a constitutional claim is covered by a specific
    constitutional provision, such as the Fourth or Eighth
    Amendment, the claim must be analyzed under the standard
    appropriate to that specific provision, not under the rubric of
    substantive due process.” United States v. Lanier, 
    520 U.S. 259
    , 272 n.7 (1997) (emphasis added) (citing Graham,
    
    490 U.S. at 394
    ).
    The majority flouts this requirement. It “first” analyzes
    the Proposition 100 laws under “general substantive due
    process principles,” Maj. Op. at 15, 15–34, then considers
    whether the Proposition 100 laws violate the specific due
    process prohibition on imposing punishment before trial, id.
    at 15, 34–37. My colleagues in the majority decline to
    consider—ever—whether the Proposition 100 laws violate
    the Eighth Amendment. Id. at 38–39 & n.16.
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                           67
    One would hardly know, after reading the majority’s
    forty-three page opinion—analyzing whether Arizona’s
    denial of bail was excessive in light of the flight risk posed by
    illegal immigrants—that, under the Eighth Amendment of the
    Constitution itself, “[e]xcessive bail shall not be required.”2
    Indeed, one might think that “[t]he Court has prohibited
    excessive bail.” Maj. Op. at 9 (emphasis added).
    B
    To be sure, specific constitutional provisions do not
    preclude recognition of substantive due process rights that
    touch on related subjects. Lewis, 
    523 U.S. at 843
    (“Substantive due process analysis is therefore inappropriate
    in this case only if respondents’ claim is ‘covered by’ the
    Fourth Amendment.”); see, e.g., Lanier, 
    520 U.S. at
    272 n. 7
    (Graham did “not hold that all constitutional claims relating
    to physically abusive government conduct must arise under
    either the Fourth or Eighth Amendments.”). Not every
    conceivable constitutional dispute regarding bail is resolved
    by the Eighth Amendment. But the question whether denying
    bail to illegal immigrants based on flight risk is
    unconstitutionally excessive is posed, precisely, by the
    Excessive Bail Clause. See Stack, 
    342 U.S. at
    4–5.
    The majority relies primarily on United States v. Salerno,
    
    481 U.S. 739
     (1987), to justify its substantive due process
    inquiry, but I suggest that it has not read that case carefully
    enough. Salerno does not excuse the majority’s disregard of
    2
    A sharp-eyed reader might spot the majority’s brief gestures toward the
    Eighth Amendment’s prohibition in its discussion of Stack v. Boyle,
    
    342 U.S. 1
     (1951). Maj. Op. at 9–10.
    68            LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    the Eighth Amendment, because this case, unlike Salerno,
    concerns detention based on flight risk.
    Two substantive due process arguments against the Bail
    Reform Act of 1984 were rejected in Salerno: The Court
    analyzed whether “the Due Process Clause prohibits pretrial
    detention on the ground of danger to the community.” 
    Id. at 748
    . And the Court considered whether it was
    unconstitutional “because the pretrial detention it authorizes
    constitutes impermissible punishment before trial.” 
    Id. at 746
    . Both claims were grounded in the Court’s substantive
    due process precedents; they required the Court to decide
    whether the Bail Reform Act violated already established due
    process rights. See 
    id.
     at 749–51 (detention based on
    dangerousness) (citing, inter alia, Schall, 
    467 U.S. 253
    ,
    Addington v. Texas, 
    441 U.S. 418
     (1979), and Carlson v.
    Landon, 
    342 U.S. 524
     (1952)); 
    id.
     at 746–47 (punishment
    before trial) (citing Bell v. Wolfish, 
    441 U.S. 520
     (1979) and
    Schall v. Martin, 
    467 U.S. 253
     (1984)). Neither claim
    implicated the Eighth Amendment inquiry proper to this
    case—whether the Proposition 100 bail laws are
    constitutionally “excessive” based on flight risk.
    1
    As to its “general substantive due process principles,” the
    majority misreads Salerno by conflating detention based on
    dangerousness, which the Court considered, with detention
    based on flight risk, which the Court did not. In Salerno, the
    Court rejected the “categorical imperative”—advanced by the
    Second Circuit—that the Due Process Clause “prohibits
    pretrial detention on the ground of danger to the community.”
    Id. at 748 (emphasis added). Because due process does not
    “erect[] an impenetrable ‘wall’” to such detention, the Court
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                             69
    reasoned “that the present statute providing for pretrial
    detention on the basis of dangerousness must be evaluated in
    precisely the same manner”—applying means-end scrutiny—
    “that we evaluated the laws in the cases discussed above.” Id.
    at 748–49 (emphasis added).
    Nothing in Salerno suggests that detention based on flight
    risk should be evaluated in the same manner. See id. at 749
    (Detainees “concede and the Court of Appeals noted that an
    arrestee may be incarcerated until trial if he presents a risk of
    flight.”).3 Indeed, the Eighth Amendment secures the specific
    right not to be required to post excessive bail in light of flight
    risk. See Stack, 
    342 U.S. at
    4–5. The majority’s substantive
    due process inquiry is thus inappropriate under Graham. See,
    e.g., John Corp. v. City of Houston, 
    214 F.3d 573
    , 582 (5th
    Cir. 2000) (“The purpose of Graham is to avoid expanding
    the concept of substantive due process where another
    constitutional provision protects individuals against the
    challenged governmental action.”).
    2
    The Court’s substantive due process jurisprudence indeed
    secures the specific right to be free from punishment before
    trial. E.g., Schall, 467 U.S. at 269. But the majority
    misapplies that jurisprudence, asking under substantive due
    process questions properly considered under the Eighth
    Amendment and thereby displacing specific constitutional
    text.
    3
    Thus, the distinction between denial of bail for dangerousness and
    denial of bail based on flight risk is “recognized” in Salerno itself, contra
    Maj. Op. at 39 n.16, the majority’s misinterpreted dicta notwithstanding,
    cf. Tallman Dissent at 57 n.3.
    70               LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    Our role is to question whether a particular “disability is
    imposed for the purpose of punishment.” Bell v. Wolfish,
    
    441 U.S. 520
    , 538 (1979). To decide whether the legislative
    purpose was punitive, in the absence of an “express intent to
    punish,” we must discern whether pretrial detention is
    “excessive in relation to the alternative purpose assigned [to
    it].” 
    Id.
     Answering that question, Salerno considered the
    “incidents of pretrial detention” under the Bail Reform Act—
    such as prompt detention hearings and whether pretrial
    detainees were housed separately from postconviction
    detainees—and concluded that they did not reveal an
    improper punitive purpose. 
    481 U.S. at 747
     (emphasis
    added). By contrast, the majority here considers the
    substance of Proposition 100—categorical denial of
    bail—and decides it is excessive notwithstanding the
    heightened risk of flight, the very question properly
    considered under the Eighth Amendment.4
    C
    The Supreme Court tells us not to rely on generalized
    substantive due process “because guideposts for responsible
    decisionmaking in this unchartered area are scarce and
    open-ended.” Collins, 
    503 U.S. at 125
    . The majority’s
    incautious expansion of substantive due process confirms the
    4
    The majority’s confusion is also evident in what meaning it affords a
    finding of “excessiveness.” In Schall, 
    467 U.S. at 269
    , and in Salerno,
    
    481 U.S. at 747
    , excessiveness may indicate an improper punitive purpose.
    In the majority’s view, however, “excessiveness” is an independent
    constitutional violation under substantive due process. See Maj. Op. at
    36–37. Here, the majority assumes “that Proposition 100 was adopted for
    the permissible regulatory purpose of managing flight risk.” Id. at 36.
    Under substantive due process, that should have been the end of the
    inquiry.
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                           71
    wisdom of such advice. Grounded in neither text nor history,
    the majority’s due process inquiry simply replaces legislative
    and popular judgment with its own, at least until Arizona
    provides sufficiently robust statistical analysis to suit.
    If we must remove “a difficult question of public policy
    . . . from the reach of the voters” of Arizona, Schuette v. Coal.
    to Defend Affirmative Action, 
    134 S. Ct. 1623
    , 1637 (2014),
    we should pay them the respect of grounding our decision in
    the textual guarantees of the Constitution, not the nebulous
    haze of substantive due process.
    II
    The question we ought to have considered is whether the
    Eighth Amendment contains any substantive restrictions on
    Arizona’s authority to declare certain classes of crimes or
    criminals nonbailable, and, if so, whether Proposition 100
    violates such restrictions.5 Without thorough briefing on such
    questions from the parties, but guided by sparse discussion in
    Supreme Court precedent, I offer a tentative answer.
    In Carlson, the Supreme Court rejected the proposition
    that the Eighth Amendment required certain detainees to be
    admitted to bail:
    The bail clause was lifted with slight
    changes from the English Bill of Rights Act.
    5
    For the purposes of this dissent, I assume the Excessive Bail Clause
    has been incorporated against the States. See McDonald v. City of
    Chicago, 
    130 S. Ct. 3020
    , 3034 & n.12 (2010) (citing Schilb v. Kuebel,
    
    404 U.S. 357
    , 365 (1971) (noting that the Excessive Bail Clause “has been
    assumed to have application to the States”)).
    72               LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    In England that clause has never been thought
    to accord a right to bail in all cases, but
    merely to provide that bail shall not be
    excessive in those cases where it is proper to
    grant bail. When this clause was carried over
    into our Bill of Rights, nothing was said that
    indicated any different concept. The Eighth
    Amendment has not prevented Congress from
    defining the classes of cases in which bail
    shall be allowed in this country.
    
    342 U.S. 524
    , 545–46 (1952) (emphasis added) (footnotes
    omitted). In Salerno, the Court reserved the question
    “whether the Excessive Bail Clause speaks at all to Congress’
    power to define the classes of criminal arrestees who shall be
    admitted to bail.” 
    481 U.S. at 754
    .6
    As noted in Carlson, the Eighth Amendment echoes the
    English Bill of Rights of 1689. Compare U.S. Const. amend.
    VIII (“Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive
    fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”),
    with English Bill of Rights 1689 (declaring that “excessive
    bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
    nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted”). But “bail was
    not an absolute right in England.” William F. Duker, The
    Right to Bail: A Historical Inquiry, 42 Albany L. Rev. 33, 77
    (1977). The English Bill of Rights did not restrain Parliament
    6
    Lopez and Castro rely, as did the detainees in Salerno, on Stack’s
    dictum that “[b]ail set at a figure higher than an amount reasonably
    calculated to [to assure the presence of the accused] is ‘excessive’ under
    the Eighth Amendment.” 
    342 U.S. at 5
    . But that standard addresses how
    the Eighth Amendment constrains courts. It does not answer how, if at all,
    the Amendment constrains legislatures.
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                     73
    from declaring which classes of crimes were bailable. See
    Hermine Herta Meyer, Constitutionality of Pretrial
    Detention, 60 Geo. L. J. 1139, 1155–58 (1972); see also
    Duker, supra, at 81. Of course, “that Parliament classified
    certain offenses as nonbailable is not an absolute indication
    that Congress was to enjoy the same power” under the Eighth
    Amendment, “to define bailable and nonbailable offenses.”
    Hunt v. Roth, 
    648 F.2d 1148
    , 1159 (8th Cir. 1981), vacated
    sub nom. Murphy v. Hunt, 
    455 U.S. 478
     (1982).
    Early American constitutions suggest, nonetheless, that
    their prohibitions of “excessive bail” limited the judiciary, not
    the legislature. E.g., Md. Const. of 1776, § 22 (“That
    excessive bail ought not to be required . . . by the courts of
    law.”); N.H. Const. of 1784, art. I, § 33 (“No magistrate or
    court of law shall demand excessive bail or sureties . . . .”);
    see generally, Duker, supra, at 79–83. “[B]y the time of the
    formulation of the Bill of Rights by the first Congress of the
    United States, the experience in America had been to grant
    bail in cases which were bailable, as determined by the
    legislature.” Id. at 83 (emphasis added). Legislatures were
    free to declare horse stealing, for example, bailable or not.
    Compare Caleb Foote, The Coming Constitutional Crisis:
    Part I, 
    113 U. Pa. L. Rev. 959
    , 976–77 (1965) (describing the
    failure by one vote of Jefferson’s bill to render horse theft
    bailable), with Duker, supra, at 82 & n. 293 (noting that
    Georgia’s legislature denied bail for horse stealing despite
    constitutional guarantee that “excessive bail” shall not be
    “demanded”).
    The First Congress’s debates over the Bill of Rights
    contain no hint that the originally understood meaning of the
    Eighth Amendment’s Excessive Bail Clause was any
    different from the right guaranteed by the same words in the
    74               LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO
    English Bill of Rights or the State constitutions. Carlson,
    
    342 U.S. at
    545 & n. 44; see also Duker, supra, at 85–86.
    I tentatively conclude, therefore, based on the text of the
    Constitution and the history of the right to bail, that the
    Eighth Amendment secures a right to reasonable bail where
    a court has discretion to grant bail. Cf. Ex parte Watkins,
    32 U.S. (7 Pet.) 568, 573–74 (1833) (Story, J.) (“The [E]ighth
    [A]mendment is addressed to courts of the United States
    exercising criminal jurisdiction, and is doubtless mandatory
    to them and a limitation upon their discretion.”). It does not,
    however, restrict legislative discretion to declare certain
    crimes nonbailable. See Duker, supra, at 86–87 (“Although
    the amendment limits the discretion of the courts in setting
    bail, Congress is free to determine the cases for which bail
    shall be allowed, or whether it shall be allowed at all.”);
    Meyer, supra, at 1194 (The Constitution “reserved for
    Congress the right to make legislative changes [to bail]
    whenever required by changed circumstances.”). I have
    found no evidence to suggest that the Excessive Bail Clause,
    as originally understood, limited legislative discretion.7
    7
    Even Professor Foote, foremost proponent of the view that the Eighth
    Amendment was “meant to provide a constitutional right to bail,”
    conceded that “the underlying right to the remedy of bail itself . . . was
    omitted” from the Constitution, albeit through “inadvertence.” Foote,
    supra, at 968, 987. I agree with the perceptive law student who dismissed
    Foote’s argument as supported by “little more than speculation about the
    workings of the minds of George Mason and the Framers,” and “flawed”
    speculation at that. Donald B. Verrilli, Jr., Note, The Eighth Amendment
    and the Right to Bail: Historical Perspectives, 
    82 Colum. L. Rev. 328
    , 340
    (1982).
    LOPEZ-VALENZUELA V. ARPAIO                         75
    III
    During Congress’s debates on the Bill of Rights, the only
    comment on the Excessive Bail Clause was by Samuel
    Livermore, Representative for New Hampshire, “who
    remarked: ‘The clause seems to have no meaning to it, I do
    not think it necessary. What is meant by the terms excessive
    bail? Who are the judges . . . ?’”8 Ignoring the first question,
    regrettably, the majority firmly answers the second: “We
    are.”
    On the majority’s chosen ground, Judge Tallman has the
    better of the argument, so I happily join his dissent. But I
    regret the majority’s impulse to clash in the terra incognitia
    of substantive due process. Guided by text and history, we
    might have found surer footing by applying the Excessive
    Bail Clause.
    I respectfully dissent.
    8
    Duker, supra, at 86 (quoting 1 Cong. Deb. 754 (Gales & Seaton eds.
    1834)).