United States v. Manuel Guerrero-Jasso , 752 F.3d 1186 ( 2014 )


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  •                 FOR PUBLICATION
    UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
    FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT
    UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,                No. 12-10372
    Plaintiff-Appellee,
    D.C. No.
    v.                   5:11-cr-00363-DLJ-1
    MANUEL GUERRERO-JASSO,
    Defendant-Appellant.             OPINION
    Appeal from the United States District Court
    for the Northern District of California
    D. Lowell Jensen, Senior District Judge, Presiding
    Argued and Submitted
    July 8, 2013—San Francisco, California
    Filed May 27, 2014
    Before: Ferdinand F. Fernandez, Richard A. Paez,
    and Marsha S. Berzon, Circuit Judges.
    Opinion by Judge Berzon;
    Concurrence by Judge Fernandez;
    Concurrence by Judge Berzon
    2            UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    SUMMARY*
    Criminal Law
    The panel vacated a sentence and remanded for further
    proceedings in a case in which the defendant entered a plea
    of guilty to an information alleging that he reentered the
    country without authorization after being removed – a
    violation of 8 U.S.C. § 1326 – and received a 42-month
    sentence.
    The panel held that in applying the twenty-year statutory
    maximum penalty under 8 U.S.C. § 1326(b) instead of the
    two-year statutory maximum penalty, the district court
    impermissibly relied on a fact – that the defendant’s removal
    was subsequent to his aggravated felony conviction – that
    was neither admitted by the defendant nor found by a jury
    beyond a reasonable doubt, in violation of Apprendi v. New
    Jersey, 
    530 U.S. 466
    (2000).
    The panel rejected the government’s contention that the
    defendant’s admission to the necessary conviction/removal
    sequence is satisfied by documents and statements that were
    not dependent on the guilty plea.
    The panel wrote that the district court incorrectly
    interpreted United States v. Mendoza-Zaragoza, 
    567 F.3d 431
    (9th Cir. 2009), as holding that a guilty plea to a § 1326
    indictment which alleges multiple removal dates establishes
    as a fact each removal date. Because the defendant did not
    *
    This summary constitutes no part of the opinion of the court. It has
    been prepared by court staff for the convenience of the reader.
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                 3
    admit to the only alleged removal date that succeeded the
    qualifying conviction, the panel held that the sentence of
    more than two years did not rest on an admission by the
    defendant, and therefore violated Apprendi.
    Distinguishing United States v. Zepeda-Martinez,
    
    470 F.3d 909
    (9th Cir. 2006), the panel concluded that the
    Apprendi error was not harmless.
    Judge Fernandez concurred in the majority opinion, with
    the exception of a paragraph – which he deemed brumal,
    overbroad, and unnecessary – discussing why an out-of-court
    confession cannot alone suffice to meet Apprendi
    requirements.
    Concurring, Judge Berzon wrote separately to express her
    concern that, under this court’s case law, harmless-error
    review based on post-conviction factual submissions could
    swallow up the Apprendi rule.
    COUNSEL
    Cynthia C. Lie (argued), Assistant Federal Public Defender,
    Office of the Federal Public Defender, San Jose, California,
    for Defendant-Appellant.
    Anne M. Voigts, (argued) and Barbara Valliere, Assistant
    United States Attorney, Office of the United States Attorney,
    San Francisco, California, for Plaintiff-Appellee.
    4          UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    OPINION
    BERZON, Circuit Judge:
    Appellant Manuel Guerrero-Jasso’s mother brought him
    to the United States from Mexico when he was eleven years
    old. At age twenty-six, he was found unlawfully present in
    California. He entered a plea of guilty to a one-count
    information alleging that he reentered the country without
    authorization after being removed — a violation of 8 U.S.C.
    § 1326 — and received a forty-two-month sentence. He
    appeals the length of his sentence as exceeding the maximum
    sentence allowed under the operative statute. We hold that,
    in applying the twenty-year statutory maximum penalty
    instead of the two-year statutory maximum penalty, the
    district court impermissibly relied on facts that were neither
    admitted by the Defendant nor found by a jury beyond a
    reasonable doubt. See Apprendi v. New Jersey, 
    530 U.S. 466
    (2000). Accordingly, we vacate the sentence, and remand for
    further proceedings consistent with this opinion.
    I.
    A person convicted under 8 U.S.C. § 1326 is ordinarily
    subject to a fine and a maximum term of two years
    imprisonment. See United States v. Mendoza-Zaragoza,
    
    567 F.3d 431
    , 433 (9th Cir. 2009). “Section 1326(b),
    however, increases the maximum sentence to twenty years if
    the alien’s removal ‘was subsequent to a conviction for
    commission of an aggravated felony.’” 
    Id. (quoting 8
    U.S.C.
    § 1326(b)(2)). As the language of § 1326(b)(2) makes plain,
    for the penalty enhancement to apply, the removal on which
    the conviction is predicated must have occurred after the
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                  5
    aggravated felony conviction. See United States v. Covian-
    Sandoval, 
    462 F.3d 1090
    , 1097 (9th Cir. 2006).
    Guerrero-Jasso was charged with one count of being an
    alien “found in” the United States in violation of 8 U.S.C.
    § 1326. The government’s information alleged that he had
    been removed from the United States “on or about April 7,
    2009, April 16, 2009, and January 19, 2011.” Although the
    information did not so specify, Guerrero-Jasso had been
    convicted on May 20, 2010 of an aggravated felony, namely,
    possession of a controlled substance for sale. 8 U.S.C.
    § 1101(a)(43)(B); see Rendon v. Mukasey, 
    520 F.3d 967
    , 976
    (9th Cir. 2008).
    Guerrero-Jasso pled guilty to the § 1326 count without a
    plea agreement. In an Application for Permission to Enter
    Plea of Guilty, he admitted that “[o]n or about February 12,
    2011, [he] was found in . . . the United States after having
    previously been removed” and without authorization to re-
    enter the country. The Application acknowledged that his
    counsel informed him that the maximum sentence was twenty
    years. He did not admit the dates of the prior removals.
    At the plea colloquy, Guerrero-Jasso affirmed his
    understanding that he could face up to twenty years in prison.
    Guerrero-Jasso also affirmed that the Application contained
    a “true statement of what [he] did.” He did not otherwise
    admit any facts alleged in the information, including any of
    the prior removal dates. The government then proffered that
    Guerrero-Jasso had been removed “on or about April 7, 2009,
    April 16, 2009, and January 19, 2011.” Immediately
    thereafter, the district court turned to Guerrero-Jasso and
    stated: “Now, this is a case that is proceeding on the basis of
    an information. That means you didn’t go to the grand jury;
    6           UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    do you understand that?” Guerrero-Jasso responded that he
    understood. The district court then accepted Guerrero-Jasso’s
    guilty plea, without asking him to admit to any of the alleged
    dates of removal.
    Prior to sentencing, the probation office prepared a
    presentence report, “PSR,” which listed each of the three
    alleged removal dates. The PSR also stated that “[o]n March
    28, 2011 . . . Guerrero-Jasso provided a written statement” to
    an Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent “attesting to
    his . . . prior deportations.” The PSR recommended that
    because Guerrero-Jasso had reentered the United States after
    being removed in January 2011 following his 2010
    aggravated felony conviction, the maximum sentence was
    twenty years. See 8 U.S.C. § 1326(b)(2).
    In his sentencing memorandum, Guerrero-Jasso objected
    to the PSR on the ground that his guilty plea “admitt[ed] only
    the facts necessary for a bare conviction” under 8 U.S.C.
    § 1326, not the “sentence-enhancing fact[ ]” that he had been
    removed after conviction for an aggravated felony. After the
    government obtained three continuances of the sentencing
    hearing, it introduced three execution of warrant forms,
    indicating that an immigration officer had witnessed
    Guerrero-Jasso’s removal on each of the three dates in
    question.
    At the final sentencing hearing, the district court stated
    that it was not relying on the warrants of removal (although
    it rejected the defense’s motion to strike those documents).
    Instead, the court ruled that Guerrero-Jasso could be subject
    to the enhanced twenty-year maximum sentence because he
    had sufficiently admitted to all the dates of removal by
    pleading guilty to the information. Accordingly, Guerrero-
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                   7
    Jasso was sentenced to forty-two months, considerably more
    than the twenty-four-month maximum penalty for violations
    of § 1326 without the enhancement.
    II.A
    Guerrero-Jasso’s sole contention on appeal is that under
    Apprendi, it was error to apply 8 U.S.C. § 1326(b)’s increased
    statutory maximum, because his guilty plea to the essential
    elements of 8 U.S.C. § 1326(a) did not establish that he had
    been removed after an aggravated felony conviction.
    The rule established in Apprendi requires that, “‘[o]ther
    than the fact of a prior conviction, any fact that increases the
    penalty for a crime beyond the prescribed statutory maximum
    . . . be submitted to a jury, and proved beyond a reasonable
    doubt,’” 
    Mendoza-Zaragoza, 567 F.3d at 434
    (quoting
    
    Apprendi, 530 U.S. at 490
    ) (first alteration in original), or
    “admitted by the defendant,” United States v. Zepeda-
    Martinez, 
    470 F.3d 909
    , 910 (9th Cir. 2006). As applied to
    § 1326, the Apprendi principle requires that to trigger
    § 1326(b)’s twenty-year-maximum sentence, facts
    establishing that the removal occurred after an aggravated
    felony conviction must be admitted by the defendant or
    proved to a jury.
    Such facts can be established in one of two ways. First,
    the defendant can admit to, or the jury could find, the
    requisite sequence — i.e., the “fact that [the defendant] had
    been removed after his conviction.” 
    Mendoza-Zaragoza, 567 F.3d at 434
    (emphasis in original). In that event, the
    precise date of the post-conviction removal need not be
    proven or admitted. 
    Id. Alternatively, the
    date of the
    defendant’s post-conviction removal can be admitted by the
    8           UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    defendant or proven to a jury. As the date of a prior
    conviction need not itself be proven beyond a reasonable
    doubt, see United States v. Pacheco-Zepeda, 
    234 F.3d 411
    ,
    414 (9th Cir. 2000) (explaining that Apprendi preserved the
    rule of Almendarez-Torres v. United States, 
    523 U.S. 224
    (1998), and “carved out an exception [to the Apprendi rule]
    for ‘prior convictions’”), admission or proof of the removal
    date is sufficient to establish eligibility for the § 1326(b)
    enhancement. Such admission or proof allows for a
    constitutionally proper determination of “whether the
    removal had followed the [qualifying] conviction in time.”
    
    Mendoza-Zaragoza, 567 F.3d at 434
    (emphasis in original)
    (quoting United States v. Salazar-Lopez, 
    506 F.3d 748
    , 751
    (9th Cir. 2007)).
    In this case, however, Guerrero-Jasso entered a guilty plea
    to a criminal information that listed three separate removal
    dates, in the conjunctive. “[W]hen either ‘A’ or ‘B’ could
    support a conviction, a defendant who pleads guilty to a
    charging document alleging ‘A and B’ admits only ‘A’ or
    ‘B.’” Young v. Holder, 
    697 F.3d 976
    , 988 (9th Cir. 2012) (en
    banc). We therefore treat Guerrero-Jasso’s guilty plea as
    admitting only that one of the three removal dates is correct,
    not that all are correct.
    As it turns out, just one of the three removal dates, the
    removal on January 19, 2011, occurred after May 20, 2010,
    the date of the qualifying conviction. Guerrero-Jasso did not
    admit that he was removed on the 2011 date; he only
    admitted that he was removed on one of the three dates
    alleged, not which one. So the entry of the guilty plea alone
    could not justify application of the § 1326(b) enhancement.
    See 
    id. at 987–88.
    And it was the “government[’s] . . . burden
    ‘at the plea colloquy to seek an explicit admission of any
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                  9
    unlawful conduct it [sought] to attribute to the defendant,’”
    United States v. Hunt, 
    656 F.3d 906
    , 912 (9th Cir. 2011)
    (quoting United States v. Thomas, 
    355 F.3d 1191
    , 1199 (9th
    Cir. 2004)), here, the fact of a removal date subsequent to the
    qualifying conviction. The government sought no such
    admission, and Guerrero-Jasso did not make one.
    This much the government concedes, acknowledging both
    that, “to support the application of Section 1326(b)’s penalty
    provision, Guerrero-Jasso had to admit the January 19, 2011[]
    removal date,” and that “[h]is plea to the conjunctively[]
    phrased information does not provide a specific admission to
    that single removal date.” The government goes on to base
    its opposition to Guerrero-Jasso’s appeal on three factors not
    dependent on the guilty plea itself: First, the government
    maintains that Guerrero-Jasso constructively accepted the
    facts contained in the PSR; second, the government points to
    Guerrero-Jasso’s post-arrest, written confession; and third,
    the government relies upon the court’s statement during the
    plea colloquy that Guerrero-Jasso faced a twenty-year
    maximum sentence. According to the government, these
    documents and statements have the same legal effect as an
    express admission during a plea colloquy. We disagree.
    First, as to the PSR, Guerrero-Jasso was not presented
    with the PSR’s alleged removal dates until after his
    conviction, and never specifically acceded to them. “When
    a conviction is obtained through a guilty plea rather than a
    jury verdict,” it is the government’s burden “to seek an
    explicit admission of any unlawful conduct it seeks to
    attribute to the defendant” for Apprendi purposes. 
    Hunt, 656 F.3d at 912
    (internal quotation marks and citations
    omitted). Guerrero-Jasso’s non-objection at sentencing to
    facts recited in the PSR cannot meet this standard.
    10         UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    With regard to the “post-arrest confession” cited by the
    government, the confession itself is not in the record. The
    government cites the PSR as support for its interpretation of
    the confession, but the PSR states only that “Mr. Guerrero-
    Jasso provided a written statement attesting to his illegal
    status [and] prior deportations.” The PSR’s recitation of the
    confession thus neither specifies the removal dates nor
    specifies that Guerrero-Jasso admitted any particular removal
    dates.
    At any rate, an out-of-court confession cannot alone
    suffice to meet the Apprendi trial-by-jury and beyond-a-
    reasonable-doubt requirements with regard to facts essential
    to establishing the maximum penalty for the crime of
    conviction. If it could, there would be no need ever to have
    a trial or an in-court plea and admission in a case in which
    there was an out-of-court confession — obviously a
    nonsensical proposition, even where the admissibility (as
    opposed to the content) of the out-of-court confession is not
    at issue. We treat defendant admissions as analogous to jury
    findings beyond a reasonable doubt for Apprendi purposes
    only when those admissions are made with knowledge of the
    penal consequences that attend those admissions. See United
    States v. Cazares, 
    121 F.3d 1241
    , 1247 (9th Cir. 1997)
    (noting that “to attribute to a defendant an admission which
    was never subject to a plea colloquy under Fed. R. Crim. P.
    11 would undermine the rule’s prophylactic purposes”).
    Finally, Guerrero-Jasso’s acknowledgment of a twenty-
    year statutory maximum sentence during the plea colloquy
    was not an admission of the conviction/removal sequence,
    nor of the dates of removal. During a plea colloquy, judges
    are not required “to predict the precise maximum penalty at
    sentencing. Instead, the court need only tell defendants the
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                  11
    maximum sentence that they could possibly face.” Garcia-
    Aguilar v. U.S. Dist. Court for the S. Dist. of Cal., 
    535 F.3d 1021
    , 1025 (9th Cir. 2008) (internal citation omitted).
    Here, it was entirely proper for the court to ensure
    Guerrero-Jasso was aware of the twenty-year penalty. At that
    point in the colloquy, it was not yet clear whether the district
    court would require Guerrero-Jasso to admit the 2011
    removal date as a condition of accepting his plea. So the
    maximum sentence Guerrero-Jasso could “possibly” face
    going into the plea colloquy was twenty years: His
    acknowledgment that he was advised of this possibility is not
    an admission of the facts essential to establish the
    applicability of the twenty-year maximum sentence.
    B.
    As none of the government’s current arguments are
    adequate to sustain the conclusion that Guerrero-Jasso
    admitted to the necessary sequencing facts, we must assess
    the district court’s quite different rationale for adopting the
    enhanced twenty-year maximum. In deciding to sentence
    Guerrero-Jasso in accordance with the twenty-year statutory
    maximum, the district court read Mendoza-Zaragoza,
    
    567 F.3d 431
    , as holding that a guilty plea to a § 1326
    indictment which alleges multiple removal dates establishes
    as a fact each removal date. That interpretation of Mendoza-
    Zaragoza is not correct.
    Mendoza-Zaragoza was charged with removal dates, but
    not with a prior conviction. He sought to enter a guilty plea
    that did not “admit any facts that would subject him to
    § 1326(b)’s sentence enhancement.” 
    Id. at 433.
    The district
    court “refused to accept” such a plea, and, as a condition of
    12          UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    accepting the plea, required the defendant to “admit[] his
    removal dates.” 
    Id. On appeal,
    we held that the district court
    did not abuse its discretion in conditioning acceptance of the
    plea on the detailed admission, because the indictment
    “alleged facts (his removal dates) sufficient to support the
    sentence enhancement under § 1326(b).” 
    Id. at 437.
    More specifically, Mendoza-Zaragoza held, first, “that an
    indictment will support the § 1326(b) sentence enhancement
    if it alleges a removal date.” 
    Id. at 434.
    That is true as far as
    the sufficiency of the indictment is concerned. Although
    Apprendi requires that “any fact . . . that increases the
    maximum penalty for a crime must be charged in an
    
    indictment,” 530 U.S. at 476
    (internal quotation marks
    omitted), Almendarez-Torres excepts prior convictions from
    all of Apprendi’s requirements, including the requirement that
    facts essential to establishing penalty exposure be alleged in
    the indictment, 
    Almendarez-Torres, 523 U.S. at 226
    –27.
    Thus, for purposes of a § 1326(b) enhancement, no allegation
    in the indictment of the date of the pre-removal conviction is
    necessary: “[A]n indictment will support a 20-year maximum
    sentence under § 1326(b) if it alleges a removal date, thus
    enabling a sentencing court to determine whether the
    conviction predated the defendant’s removal to establish the
    necessary sequence.” 
    Mendoza-Zaragoza, 567 F.3d at 436
    .
    In addition to an indictment alleging facts essential to
    establish the maximum sentence, Apprendi mandates proof to
    a jury of those essential facts beyond a reasonable doubt, or
    a clear admission to the pertinent fact, adequate to waive the
    constitutional proof requirement. As to this aspect of
    Apprendi, Mendoza-Zaragoza held only that a district court
    has the discretion to require a defendant to admit a specific
    removal date before accepting a guilty plea to a § 1326
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                  13
    charge, thereby satisfying the Apprendi proof requirements.
    
    Id. at 437.
    The district court in this case accepted Guerrero-Jasso’s
    plea without requiring him to admit to the removal date
    essential to the enhanced sentence. As Guerrero-Jasso did not
    admit to the 2011 removal date, the district court’s sentence
    of more than two years, unlike the sentence in Mendoza-
    Zaragoza, did not rest on an admission by the defendant, and
    so violated Apprendi.
    III.
    Not all violations of Apprendi warrant reversal. A
    properly preserved Apprendi error is reviewed for harmless
    error, see Washington v. Recuenco, 
    548 U.S. 212
    , 222 (2006),
    under the standard articulated in Neder v. United States,
    
    527 U.S. 1
    (1999). See 
    Zepeda-Martinez, 470 F.3d at 913
    .
    Guerrero-Jasso preserved his Apprendi claim by expressly
    stating at sentencing that he had never admitted the January
    2011 removal date and arguing that his sentence thus could
    not exceed two years. The Apprendi error was, of course, a
    constitutional one. We must therefore reverse unless we
    “find[] beyond a reasonable doubt that the result ‘would have
    been the same absent the error.’” 
    Zepeda-Martinez, 470 F.3d at 913
    (quoting 
    Neder, 527 U.S. at 19
    ); see Chapman v.
    California, 
    386 U.S. 18
    (1967). “[W]here the record contains
    ‘overwhelming’ and ‘uncontroverted’ evidence supporting an
    element of the crime, the error is [constitutionally] harmless.”
    
    Zepeda-Martinez, 470 F.3d at 913
    (quoting 
    Neder, 527 U.S. at 17
    , 18).
    14          UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    The government asks us to approve Guerrero-Jasso’s
    sentence on the basis of (1) a warrant of removal it introduced
    post-conviction and (2) Guerrero-Jasso’s alleged acceptance
    of the PSR. The government maintains that this post-
    conviction evidence proves any constitutional error harmless
    beyond a reasonable doubt, arguing that the circumstances of
    this case are indistinguishable from the facts of Zepeda-
    Martinez.
    In Zepeda-Martinez, a warrant of removal showed
    “Zepeda was ordered removed on June 8, 2004 and was
    physically removed . . . on foot on June 17, 2004.” 
    Id. The warrant
    included “Zepeda’s name, signature, fingerprint, and
    immigration case number, as well as the name, title, and
    signature of an immigration officer who witnessed the
    removal.” 
    Id. Noting that
    “Zepeda did not dispute the
    authenticity of this document,” and that “Zepeda himself had
    offered the first page of the same warrant as an exhibit” pre-
    trial, the court concluded that the warrant was “sufficient
    alone to support a finding of removal beyond a reasonable
    doubt.” 
    Id. As a
    result, the evidence of the essential removal
    date was “overwhelming” as well as “uncontroverted,”
    thereby satisfying the constitutional harmless error standard.
    
    Id. The record
    before this court includes a somewhat similar
    document. But unlike the document in Zepeda-Martinez, the
    first page of which was filed pre-trial by the defendant
    himself, Guerrero-Jasso has never vouched for the accuracy
    and reliability of this document. Indeed, unlike Zepeda-
    Martinez, who “did not contest . . . the authenticity of the
    warrant of removal,” 
    Hunt, 656 F.3d at 914
    , Guerrero-Jasso
    made a timely objection that the removal warrant should not
    be admitted, arguing that it was aimed solely at the appellate
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                 15
    court’s harmless-error determination, was “inadequately
    authenticated,” “insufficient,” and included only the
    execution-of-warrant documentation, “not the warrant itself.”
    The district court never resolved these objections, because it
    found — erroneously, as we have explained — that Guerrero-
    Jasso had adequately admitted to the pertinent removal date.
    We thus disagree that the facts before us are
    indistinguishable from those in Zepeda-Martinez, and cannot
    conclude beyond a reasonable doubt, on the record before us,
    that the Apprendi error in Guerrero-Jasso’s case was
    harmless.
    By objecting to the execution-of-warrant form as
    inauthentic and incomplete, Guerrero-Jasso challenged the
    government’s belated evidentiary basis for proving his
    removal date. The government’s evidence cannot, therefore,
    be described as “uncontroverted.” See Black’s Law
    Dictionary (9th ed. 2009) (defining “controvert” as “[t]o
    dispute or contest; esp. to deny (as an allegation in a
    pleading) or oppose in argument”). And we cannot say
    beyond a reasonable doubt that a jury would necessarily have
    relied on this evidence, even if it were admitted as prima
    facie authentic.
    In Hunt, we refused to declare an Apprendi error
    harmless, in part because, as the essential, omitted fact was
    “never litigated,” the “plea and sentencing proceedings . . .
    provide[d] an inadequate record” for our harmless-error
    
    review. 656 F.3d at 915
    . In so concluding, we noted that:
    If Hunt’s case had proceeded to trial, he
    could have raised Sixth Amendment or
    evidentiary objections, he could have
    16         UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    presented expert testimony to counter the
    opinions of Detective Feliciano, he could have
    cross-examined the various civilian and
    government witnesses called by the
    government, and he could have decided to
    testify to tell his side of the story.
    
    Id. at 916.
    Here, had Guerrero-Jasso had the opportunity to
    challenge the authenticity of the warrant at trial, he could
    have pointed out the absence of live testimony from the
    immigration officer who signed the execution of warrant, as
    well as the absence of any testimony as to the form’s chain of
    custody. Cf. United States v. Estrada-Eliverio, 
    583 F.3d 669
    ,
    671–73 (9th Cir. 2009) (holding that the government made a
    prima facie showing of authenticity of a warrant of removal
    where the immigration agent who maintained the defendant’s
    immigration file testified at trial as to his record-keeping
    practices and that the warrant admitted was a true and correct
    copy of the warrant in the defendant’s file). On those bases,
    Guerrero-Jasso could have argued that there was not proof
    beyond a reasonable doubt that the document was what it
    purported to be.
    The government contends that Guerrero-Jasso’s
    objections did not sufficiently controvert the government’s
    evidence, because he did not meaningfully place the accuracy
    of the document into dispute and failed to “raise[] evidence
    sufficient to support a contrary finding.” 
    Neder, 527 U.S. at 19
    .
    We disagree that Guerrero-Jasso’s challenge to the
    authenticity of the government’s evidence was not
    “meaningful.”       By challenging the document as
    unauthenticated, he disputed the government’s assertion that
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                  17
    the document was what the government said it was. This
    challenge is a meaningful one, as it goes to the likelihood that
    a jury would find the necessary removal date beyond a
    reasonable doubt. Cf. 
    Zepeda-Martinez, 470 F.3d at 913
    . In
    similar circumstances, Hunt refused to characterize the
    government’s evidence of a post-arrest confession as
    “overwhelming” evidence of an essential, omitted fact, where
    the defendant “presented non-frivolous arguments contesting
    the reliability of the 
    statement.” 656 F.3d at 915
    .
    More fundamentally, we reject the government’s
    suggestion that a defendant in Guerrero-Jasso’s position has
    an affirmative obligation to introduce evidence post hoc to
    defeat the government’s harmlessness argument. The
    government cites the statement in Zepeda-Martinez that a
    constitutional “error is not harmless if ‘the defendant
    contested the omitted element and raised evidence sufficient
    to support a contrary 
    finding,’” 470 F.3d at 913
    (quoting
    
    Neder, 527 U.S. at 19
    ), as support for such a requirement.
    But when placed in its proper context, this statement does not
    obligate a defendant to introduce evidence during sentencing
    to establish that the government’s error was harmless.
    Zepeda-Martinez was quoting Neder, in which the Court
    explained that, to “safeguard[] the jury guarantee,” courts will
    often need to “conduct a thorough examination of the record”
    before concluding that a constitutional error was 
    harmless. 527 U.S. at 19
    . Neder went on to explain: “If . . . the court
    cannot conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that the jury
    verdict would have been the same absent the error — for
    example, where the defendant contested the omitted element
    and raised evidence sufficient to support a contrary finding —
    it should not find the error harmless.” 
    Id. (emphasis added).
    18          UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    The example provided in Neder is not the only way a
    constitutional error can be ruled not harmless; it is one way.
    Where, as here, there was no trial but a guilty plea, and the
    evidence is introduced post-conviction by the government
    only to demonstrate harmlessness, it would fundamentally
    undermine the Apprendi protections to require the defendant
    affirmatively to present evidence to counter facts that were
    never properly established in accord with Apprendi in the first
    place.
    Finally, the government asserts that any constitutional
    error was harmless because Guerrero-Jasso “accepted” the
    prior removal dates as expressed in the PSR. But in his
    sentencing memorandum, Guerrero-Jasso continued to assert
    that his plea “admitted only the facts necessary for a bare
    conviction,” not the “sentence-enhancing fact” of a specific
    removal date, and he objected to the PSR’s sentencing
    calculations, insisting that the two-year statutory maximum
    cabined his sentence. At sentencing, Guerrero-Jasso
    continued to object to the enhancement and did not
    specifically accede to the PSR’s recitation of the dates of
    removal. In light of Guerrero-Jasso’s challenges to the
    removal warrant and his continued protestations at
    sentencing, the lack of an express objection to the removal
    dates recited in the PSR does not alone satisfy the
    “overwhelming and uncontroverted” evidentiary standard in
    this case.
    For these reasons, the sentence must be vacated, and the
    case remanded. On remand, the district court must sentence
    Guerrero-Jasso in accordance with the statutory maximum
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                 19
    penalty applicable to the offense he admitted when he entered
    his guilty plea. See 
    Hunt, 656 F.3d at 917
    .
    VACATED and REMANDED.
    FERNANDEZ, Circuit Judge, concurring:
    I concur in the majority opinion, with the exception of the
    paragraph that commences at line 10 on page 10, which I
    believe is brumal, overbroad, and unnecessary to our
    decision. On the record in this case, the result we reach is
    compelled without that embellishment.
    BERZON, Circuit Judge, concurring:
    I write separately to express my concern that, under our
    case law, harmless-error review based on post-conviction
    factual submissions could swallow up the rule of Apprendi v.
    New Jersey, 
    530 U.S. 466
    (2000). We need to re-think our
    doctrine on this important point.
    I.
    First, some context:
    After Guerrero-Jasso filed a sentencing memorandum
    objecting to the Pre-Sentence Report’s conclusion that he was
    subject to a mandatory twenty-year statutory maximum
    sentence, the government asked for more time to check
    Guerrero-Jasso’s assertion that he had not, in fact, admitted
    20         UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    each date of removal alleged in the conjunctively phrased
    information. Guerrero-Jasso agreed to continue sentencing to
    give the government the time it sought. After receiving the
    transcript of the change of plea proceeding (which confirmed
    that Guerrero-Jasso did not admit to each date of removal) the
    government “request[ed] additional time to compare [the]
    transcripts with case law.” The district court granted the
    government’s request. The day before the continued
    sentencing hearing, the government filed a “Supplemental
    Exhibit” in support of its sentencing memorandum. The
    exhibit comprises three one-page documents, each entitled
    “Warrant of Removal/Deportation” and each purporting to
    show that Guerrero-Jasso was removed to Mexico on the date
    indicated.
    At sentencing, Guerrero-Jasso renewed his position that
    he was not subject to the twenty-year maximum penalty
    because he had not admitted the requisite removal date. The
    government argued, and the court responded, as follows:
    THE GOVERNMENT: [T]here’s enough in
    the record for the Court to find that the date
    was proven. The Supreme Court says that any
    Apprendi error is reviewed for harmlessness.
    THE COURT: That’s when the Circuit gets
    their hands on it — I mean after I’m through.
    I mean, if you tell me that if I commit an
    error, “It’s okay. Don’t worry about it
    because the Ninth Circuit is not going to pay
    any attention to it.” To me that doesn’t
    impress me in terms of whether I should
    commit an error or not. So I don’t think I
    should be committing any errors even if I
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                         21
    know that if I commit an error, the Ninth
    Circuit isn’t going to care.
    THE GOVERNMENT: The cases that say
    Apprendi error is reviewed for harmlessness
    don’t draw a distinction between whether the
    district court judge is aware of this error or
    not. What they ask the district court to
    consider is whether there is overwhelming and
    uncontroverted evidence of, in this case, the
    fact of the prior deport.
    And the Government submitted exhibits to
    this Court that prove the prior deport, the
    warrants of deport. The Government notes
    that the PSR — the Court is allowed to look at
    the failure to object to [the date of] deport in
    the PSR . . . .
    And maybe most tellingly, the defendant
    is never telling this Court he wasn’t deported
    on those dates. There’s no chance that the
    result in this Court would be different. And
    that’s what Apprendi error asks this Court and
    asks the Ninth Circuit to look at: Would the
    result be different if the error this Court is
    worried about committing didn’t occur? In
    this case the result wouldn’t be different.1
    1
    The government also pointed to Guerrero-Jasso’s failure to object to
    the court’s representation that he was subject to the twenty-year maximum
    penalty as an admission of post-conviction removal. For the reasons
    expressed in the majority opinion, Guerrero-Jasso’s preliminary
    22          UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    Combined with the timing of the government’s evidentiary
    submission, this exchange makes it obvious that the sole point
    of introducing the warrants of removal was to “prove” the
    essential removal date, thereby justifying a twenty-year
    statutory ceiling.
    Even though the district court’s sentence violated
    Apprendi, the government asks us to uphold the sentence on
    the basis of the “warrant of removal/deportation” purporting
    to show that Guerrero-Jasso was removed to Mexico on
    January 19, 2011. As our opinion in this case indicates, there
    is support in this court’s case law for permitting such post-
    conviction governmental submissions as proof of Apprendi
    harmlessness — although, as the result reached in this case
    demonstrates, such after-the-fact submissions can establish
    Apprendi harmlessness only in limited circumstances.
    One would think that a constitutional protection designed
    to assure that juries rather than judges decide facts essential
    to determining the potential maximum sentence could never
    be satisfied by post-conviction evidentiary submissions,
    reviewed by a judge and directed at demonstrating that had
    the submissions been introduced at a jury trial, a jury would
    have found the facts in the government’s favor beyond a
    reasonable doubt. Such an approach is entirely different from
    the usual harmless-error analysis, which reviews the record
    of an actual trial to determine what the actual jury in that case
    would have decided on the record before it. See, e.g.,
    Chapman v. California, 
    386 U.S. 18
    , 25–26 (1967). It is,
    after all, out of respect for “the jury-trial guarantee,” that the
    Supreme Court “instructs . . . reviewing court[s] to consider
    acceptance of the court’s maximum-sentence representation was
    insufficient for that purpose.
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                   23
    . . . not what effect [a] constitutional error might generally be
    expected to have upon a reasonable jury, but rather what
    effect it had upon the guilty verdict in the case at hand.”
    Sullivan v. Louisiana, 
    113 S. Ct. 2078
    , 2081 (1993).
    This case, of course, involved a guilty plea, so there was
    no jury trial. But that circumstance makes the post-
    conviction submission of evidence in an effort to demonstrate
    harmless error even more questionable: The defendant
    waived a jury trial, so there is no pre-conviction factual
    record at all. To create one after the fact is not only to
    undermine Apprendi but to broaden the defendant’s waiver,
    by allowing courts to make factual determinations concerning
    a trial that never occurred.
    Here, for example, the government neglected to elicit
    necessary admissions at the plea hearing. How can we, or the
    district court, know that it would have done better had a trial
    occurred — that is, that it would properly have submitted the
    necessary removal documents? And why is Guerrero-Jasso’s
    waiver of jury trial to be taken as waiving a jury trial as to
    that question, which did not arise until after the waiver?
    This state of affairs leads me to wonder: How did we get
    here? And can, and should, we reconsider?
    II.
    A review of our case law shows that we have not always
    treated Apprendi’s protections so carelessly:
    •   United States v. Tighe, 
    266 F.3d 1187
    , 1195 (9th Cir.
    2001), held that if the fact of a juvenile adjudication
    is used to increase the maximum statutory penalty,
    24           UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    that fact must be charged in an indictment and found
    by a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. “Because Tighe
    properly preserved his . . . Apprendi claim for appeal,
    his sentence [could not] stand unless the district
    court’s constitutional error was harmless beyond a
    reasonable doubt.” 
    Id. We then
    held, without further
    inquiry, that the error in that case was not harmless,
    simply because the defendant’s sentence exceeded
    “the applicable statutory maximum.” 
    Id. Like Guerrero-Jasso,
    Tighe’s conviction was the result of
    a guilty plea. 
    Id. at 1190.
    •   United States v. Velasco-Heredia, 
    319 F.3d 1080
    ,
    1085–86 (9th Cir. 2003), considered whether an
    Apprendi error resulting from judicial fact-finding as
    to drug quantity was harmless. The drug quantity
    found at sentencing increased what was otherwise a
    thirty-seven-to-forty-six month guidelines range and
    a statutory maximum of five years, to a mandatory
    five-year sentence and a maximum forty-year
    sentence. 
    Id. at 1083–84,
    1086. We reasoned that
    therefore “not only was the error not harmless, it was
    demonstrably harmful.” 
    Id. at 1086.
    We found it
    “too clever by half to permit the government in the
    guilt phase of a case to prove beyond a reasonable
    doubt that only one kilogram of marijuana was
    involved in the offense, and then at sentencing to
    prove 101 kilograms by a preponderance of the
    evidence and claim that such a finding . . . requires
    the maximum sentence of five years.” 
    Id. Rather, in
             our view, the increased penalty provision could not
    apply “unless and until 100 kilograms or more of
    marijuana are properly on the sentencing table,”
    which, “[a]fter Apprendi, . . . cannot happen until the
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                    25
    jury, or the court in a bench trial, finds beyond a
    reasonable doubt that this is the quantity involved in
    the violation.” 
    Id. Recognizing that
    “the Fifth
    Amendment to our Constitution does not permit
    Velasco-Heradia to be tried twice for the same
    offense[,]” we vacated his sentence and remanded for
    resentencing in accordance with an unspecified drug
    quantity. 
    Id. at 1086–87.
    •   United States v. Banuelos, 
    322 F.3d 700
    , 705 (9th Cir.
    2003), held that the district court erred by making a
    finding, by a standard lower than beyond a reasonable
    doubt, as to the amount of drugs for which a
    defendant involved in a drug conspiracy was
    personally responsible, where the finding increased
    the defendant’s maximum sentence exposure. The
    defendant in that case had entered a guilty plea to a
    drug conspiracy charge, but he never waived his right
    to have a jury determine the drug quantity attributable
    to him, and he refused to waive the beyond-a-
    reasonable-doubt standard as to drug quantity. 
    Id. at 703.
    We held that, “because Baneuelos did not
    allocute to drug quantity at the change of plea hearing
    or admit to drug quantity in a written plea
    agreement,” he was properly convicted of only the
    “general offense . . . charged in the indictment . . . the
    only offense for which there was a factual basis for
    conviction.” 
    Id. at 706–07.
    Because he challenged
    his sentence but not his conviction, we explained that
    the proper course on remand was for the district court
    to resentence him “subject to the maximum sentence
    supported by the facts found by the [fact-finder]
    beyond a reasonable doubt,” — the facts necessarily
    included in his plea to the general drug-conspiracy
    26           UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    offense. 
    Id. at 706
    (internal quotation marks omitted;
    alteration in original). And, although Banuelos did
    not raise the issue on appeal, we noted that “[t]he
    court’s finding of drug quantity attributable to
    Banuelos by any standard, without first advising
    Banuelos that he had a right to jury determination of
    that fact beyond a reasonable doubt, also violated
    Apprendi.” 
    Id. at 705
    n.3.
    Finally, we rejected the suggestion that the court
    should scour the record at sentencing to determine if
    the error was harmless beyond a reasonable doubt.
    
    Id. at 706
    & n.4. As “the very finding of an Apprendi
    violation means that it was improper for the district
    court to determine drug quantity attributable to
    Banuelos at sentencing without first informing
    Banuelos of his right to a jury determination of drug
    quantity to him beyond a reasonable doubt[,]” we
    deemed ourselves “prohibit[ed] . . . from considering
    admissions made at sentencing in evaluating an
    Apprendi violation for harmless error.” 
    Id. at 706
    n.4.
    •   United States v. Thomas, 
    355 F.3d 1191
    (9th Cir.
    2004), followed Banuelos and Velasco-Heradia. In
    that case, the defendant pled guilty to a drug offense,
    but refused to accept responsibility for any specific
    drug quantity during the plea colloquy. 
    Id. at 1192–93.
    Nevertheless, the judge sentenced him in
    accordance with a statutory maximum correlating to
    a specified drug quantity. 
    Id. at 1194.
    Because the
    error increased the defendant’s guidelines offense
    level and required a mandatory minimum sentence,
    we deemed the error “clearly harmful.” 
    Id. at 1201.
             We rejected the government’s argument that, on
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                  27
    remand, the judge could impose a sentence in
    accordance with the elevated statutory maximum
    penalty if the judge found the drug quantity beyond a
    reasonable doubt: As the defendant “did not . . . admit
    to possessing any specific quantity, nor . . . knowingly
    waive his right under Apprendi . . . to have a jury
    determine quantity beyond a reasonable doubt,” we
    held, “the district judge cannot determine any
    particular drug quantity that would affect the
    maximum statutory sentence to which [the defendant]
    is exposed.” 
    Id. at 1202.
    •   United States v. Patterson, 
    381 F.3d 859
    (9th Cir.
    2004), considered the effect of a guilty plea to
    manufacturing an unspecified amount of marijuana on
    the defendant’s sentence. The defendant entered, and
    the district court accepted, a guilty plea that did not
    admit to a specified amount of marijuana, with the
    understanding that the judge would determine the
    amount of marijuana at the time of sentencing. 
    Id. at 861–62.
    After the defendant entered his plea, but
    before sentencing, Apprendi issued, holding such
    judicial determinations unconstitutional, and the
    district court, on the government’s motion, vacated
    the defendant’s plea. 
    Id. at 862.
    The defendant was
    then tried and convicted by a jury, and the jury made
    a finding as to the specific drug quantity. 
    Id. This court
    reversed, reasoning that jeopardy attached the
    moment the defendant entered and the court accepted
    the guilty plea; that the court was not free to vacate
    the plea on the government’s motion; and that the trial
    therefore violated double jeopardy principles. 
    Id. at 864–65.
    Although it would have been a simple matter
    to review the trial record to determine whether there
    28           UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    was evidence to support a finding that the Apprendi
    violation was harmless beyond a reasonable doubt, we
    instead remanded with instructions to resentence the
    defendant in accordance with the maximum penalty
    allowable under the plea that he entered. 
    Id. at 866.
    •   Finally, United States v. Lococo, 
    514 F.3d 860
    , 865
    (9th Cir. 2007), held that a district court violated
    Apprendi by sentencing a defendant according to the
    statutory maximum penalty for knowing involvement
    in a conspiracy to distribute crack cocaine, because
    the defendant admitted only to knowing involvement
    in the conspiracy’s distribution of powder cocaine
    when he entered his guilty plea. In remanding for
    resentencing, we cited our prior decision in Banuelos,
    and instructed the district court that it could only base
    the defendant’s sentence on the amount of powder
    cocaine involved in the conspiracy, “because it is only
    powder cocaine that Lococo admits he knew about.”
    
    Id. at 866.
    Our interpretations of the Apprendi harmless-error review
    standard in these cases do not correspond with the
    “overwhelming and uncontroverted” standard described in
    Neder v. United States, 
    527 U.S. 1
    , 9 (1999), outside the
    Apprendi context, and adopted in United States v. Zepeda-
    Martinez, 
    470 F.3d 909
    , 913 (9th Cir. 2006), and United
    States v. Hunt, 
    656 F.3d 906
    , 913 (9th Cir. 2011), as
    applicable in Apprendi cases. The difference, in my view,
    rests largely on a critical distinction between post-conviction,
    harmless-error review of a preserved Apprendi claim and
    plain-error review of an unpreserved claim. See United States
    v. Minore, 
    292 F.3d 1109
    , 1122 n.12 (9th Cir. 2002).
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                              29
    United States v. Minore considered two potential
    methods, first outlined by United States v. Nordby, 
    225 F.3d 1053
    , 1060 (9th Cir. 2000), overruled in part by United States
    v. Buckland, 
    289 F.3d 558
    , 567–68 (9th Cir. 2002) (en banc),
    for reviewing an unpreserved Apprendi violation for plain
    
    error. 292 F.3d at 1121
    –22. We termed the two Nordby
    methods the “less stringent” approach and the “more
    stringent” approach. 
    Id. The more
    stringent approach
    followed Neder, asking “whether it was clear beyond a
    reasonable doubt that a rational jury would have found the
    defendant guilty absent the error.” 
    Id. at 1122
    (internal
    quotation marks omitted). We held the more stringent
    approach properly applicable to plain-error cases, where it is
    the defendant’s burden to prove the error “affected his
    substantial rights.”2 
    Id. at 1123;
    accord United States v.
    Covian-Sandoval, 
    462 F.3d 1090
    , 1098 (9th Cir. 2006);
    
    Buckland, 289 F.3d at 569
    –70 (9th Cir. 2002) (concluding
    that defendant’s substantial rights were not affected by
    Apprendi error in light of the unchallenged amount of
    narcotics attributed to him and therefore refusing to reverse
    under plain error review).
    2
    Similarly, United States v. Cotton held that failure to charge drug
    quantity in an indictment was error, but that where the evidence of drug
    quantity was “overwhelming and essentially uncontroverted,” the error did
    not “seriously affect[] the fairness, integrity or public reputation of judicial
    proceedings.” 
    535 U.S. 625
    , 632–33 (2002) (internal quotation marks
    omitted). Perceiving that “[t]he real threat . . . to the fairness, integrity,
    and public reputation of judicial proceedings would be if respondents,
    despite the overwhelming and uncontroverted evidence that they were
    involved in a vast drug conspiracy, were to receive a sentence prescribed
    for those committing less substantial drug offenses because of an error that
    was never objected to at trial[,]” the Court determined reversal for plain
    error improper. 
    Id. at 634
    (internal quotation marks omitted).
    30          UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    Minore described the less stringent approach as simply
    asking whether the defendant received a sentence greater than
    authorized, absent the error. 
    See 292 F.3d at 1121
    –22. And
    although we held the less stringent standard not applicable to
    plain-error cases, we recognized that we had previously
    applied it in harmless-error cases, and were careful “not [to]
    suggest that the less stringent approach is no longer available
    on harmless error review.” 
    Id. at 1122
    n.12. We then
    continued to review properly preserved Apprendi claims for
    harmless error by analyzing only the error’s effect on the
    sentence received, not combing the record for overwhelming,
    uncontroverted evidence of the sentencing-enhancing fact.
    See, e.g., 
    Thomas, 355 F.3d at 1201
    .
    Zepeda-Martinez, however, apparently deeming this long
    line of cases incompatible with Washington v. Recuenco,
    
    548 U.S. 212
    (2006), held that Neder’s brand of harmless-
    error review applies to “properly preserved” Apprendi
    violations, 
    too. 470 F.3d at 913
    . Accepting that “our prior
    case law may suggest otherwise,” Zepeda-Martinez cites
    Recuenco as holding that “Apprendi errors are reviewed
    under the harmless error standard as applied in Neder[.]” 
    Id. In my
    view, Recuenco did not so hold, and Zepeda-
    Martinez erred in assuming that it did. Recuenco affirmed a
    rule that already existed in our circuit, i.e., that Apprendi
    violations are reviewable for harmless error. But it did not
    mandate any particular method for conducting that review,
    and so did not require us to overrule our circuit precedents
    regarding the nature of that review where there is preserved
    Apprendi error.
    In Recuenco, the jury returned a guilty verdict for assault
    and a special verdict finding that the defendant was armed
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                           31
    with a deadly weapon. The jury was not asked to find, and
    did not find, that the defendant was armed with a 
    firearm. 548 U.S. at 215
    . Nonetheless, at sentencing, the defendant
    received a three-year enhancement for being armed with a
    firearm. 
    Id. The Court
    held Neder’s harmless-error ruling applicable
    under these circumstances, reasoning that, “[b]ecause Neder’s
    jury did not find him guilty of each of the elements of the
    offenses with which he was charged, its verdict is no more
    fairly described as a complete finding of guilt of the crimes
    for which the defendant was sentenced than is the verdict
    here.” 
    Id. at 221.
    As the case was in this respect
    “indistinguishable from Neder,” 
    id. at 220,
    the Court held the
    Apprendi error in Recuenco reviewable for harmless error.
    The Court did not, however, explain how harmless-error
    review of Apprendi errors should be conducted. Neder’s
    mode of harmless-error analysis is not discussed in Recuenco,
    and Recuenco specifically declined to rule on the question of
    whether the error in the case before it was harmless.3 
    Id. at 3
        The defendant-respondent in Recuenco had argued that at the time of
    his conviction, Washington state law did not provide a procedure whereby
    a jury could make the finding required by Apprendi. 
    Id. at 217.
    He went
    on to maintain that the Washington Supreme Court’s structural error
    holding regarding the Apprendi violation in his case thus rested on an
    adequate and independent state ground — the lack of a procedural
    mechanism allowing a jury to make the necessary factual finding. 
    Id. at 216–17.
    Recuenco rejected the argument that state law barred it from
    reaching the merits, but explained that the state’s mechanisms for
    presenting sentence enhancements to a jury were relevant to harmlessness.
    If the state had no such mechanism, Recuenco reasoned, “that . . . suggests
    that respondent will be able to demonstrate that the . . . violation in this
    particular case was not harmless.” 
    Id. at 218
    (emphasis in original)
    (citing 
    Chapman, 386 U.S. at 24
    ). Recuenco thus suggests that a sentence
    above the statutory maximum could not be deemed harmless if the penalty
    32          UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    217–18. Recuenco held only that “[f]ailure to submit a
    sentencing factor to the jury, like failure to submit an element
    to the jury, is not structural 
    error.” 548 U.S. at 222
    .
    Our rejection of our prior case law following Recuenco
    might not be so troubling if our mode of harmless-error
    review had been limited to reviewing the trial record with
    regard to what the jury would almost surely have found on
    the factual question essential to determining the maximum
    sentence. But we held in Nordby that review of an Apprendi
    violation should “encompass[ ] the ‘whole record,’” including
    evidence from sentencing 
    proceedings. 225 F.3d at 1061
    n.6
    (quoting Delaware v. Van Arsdall, 
    475 U.S. 673
    , 681 (1986)).
    We derived the notion of “whole record” review from the
    Supreme Court’s opinion in Delaware v. Van Arsdall,
    
    475 U.S. 673
    , 681 (1986), which held that a violation of the
    constitutional right to confront an adversarial witness does
    not require reversal if the error was harmless beyond a
    reasonable doubt.
    Van Arsdall, however, made no mention of sentencing
    proceedings. Instead, it concluded that “the Supreme Court
    of Delaware was wrong when it declined to consider whether
    [the adverse] ruling was harmless in the context of the trial as
    a 
    whole.” 475 U.S. at 674
    (emphasis added). And none of
    the cases Van Arsdall cites as support for “whole record”
    review mention sentencing proceedings after a trial or a
    guilty plea either. See United States v. Hasting, 
    461 U.S. 499
    , 509 (1983) (“[T]he Court has consistently made clear
    that it is the duty of a reviewing court to consider the trial
    record as a whole and to ignore errors that are harmless.”
    provision that increased the maximum sentence was not, and could not
    have been, submitted to a jury.
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                      33
    (emphasis added)); Moore v. Illinois, 
    434 U.S. 220
    , 232
    (1977); Harrington v. California, 
    395 U.S. 250
    , 253–54
    (1969).
    Nonetheless, our decision to consider sentencing
    proceedings in Nordby made a certain amount of sense, as we
    did so for the purpose of giving the defendant an opportunity
    to counter evidence that the government introduced at trial —
    evidence which the defendant might have failed to dispute
    because he was unaware of its relevance to the jury’s decision
    until it was declared relevant on appeal. We therefore looked
    to the sentencing proceedings for a limited purpose — “to
    assist us in determining what evidence Nordby would have
    introduced at trial [on the omitted fact] had that issue been
    relevant.” 
    Nordby, 225 F.3d at 1061
    n.6 (emphasis added).
    But we refused to consider any post-conviction admissions or
    stipulations made by the defendant, because we deemed “new
    admissions by Nordby at sentencing, made after the jury had
    already rendered its verdict . . . irrelevant to [the] inquiry.”
    
    Id. Unfortunately, we
    later threw Nordby’s limitations to the
    wind. All that is left of Nordby’s careful excision of the
    relevant post-conviction material from the irrelevant is the
    rule that we do not consider the defendant’s post-conviction
    admissions or stipulations in Apprendi harmless-error
    review.4 See Butler v. Curry, 
    528 F.3d 624
    , 648 n.16 (9th
    Cir. 2008) (noting “our long-standing rule that admissions at
    sentencing are not relevant to an Apprendi harmless error
    analysis”); 
    Lococo, 514 F.3d at 864
    (refusing to consider
    defendant’s statements at sentencing, even though they could
    4
    Even this rule has on occasion been breached. See 
    Zepeda-Martinez, 470 F.3d at 913
    .
    34          UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    be interpreted as an admission, in assessing the harmlessness
    of an Apprendi error in accepting a guilty plea); United States
    v. Salazar-Lopez, 
    506 F.3d 748
    , 755 (9th Cir. 2007) (“[W]e
    do not consider new admissions made at sentencing in our
    harmless error inquiry”); United States v. Jordan, 
    291 F.3d 1091
    , 1097 (9th Cir. 2002) (“A stipulation at sentencing does
    not address the jury’s finding and cannot be considered under
    Apprendi.”).
    Thus, several opinions of this court since Nordby have
    considered evidence introduced at sentencing by the
    government as part of harmless-error, rather than — as in
    Nordby — plain-error review, see, e.g., 
    Hunt, 656 F.3d at 913
    –16; 
    Zepeda-Martinez, 470 F.3d at 913
    , and other circuits
    have done likewise, see, e.g., United States v. Harakaly,
    
    734 F.3d 88
    , 96–97 & n.9 (1st Cir. 2013) (declining to decide
    whether post-conviction concessions “would independently
    suffice to establish harmlessness,” but relying on them for
    corroboration of the defendant’s “earlier concessions at his
    Rule 11 hearing”); United States v. Williams, 
    493 F.3d 763
    ,
    767–68 (7th Cir. 2007). Moreover — again, unlike in Nordby
    — we have applied this process of post-conviction
    evidentiary submission and fact-finding analysis to cases in
    which there was never a trial at all, even though Neder,
    Recuenco, and Nordby all involved jury verdicts. See 
    Hunt, 656 F.3d at 913
    –16 (guilty plea); 
    Zepeda-Martinez, 470 F.3d at 913
    (same). In the process, we expanded the scope of post-
    conviction evidence considered as to Apprendi harmlessness
    from evidence the defendant would have admitted at trial to
    evidence the parties would have admitted at trial, Zepeda-
    
    Martinez, 470 F.3d at 913
    n.3. The result was to pave the
    way for a post-conviction bench trial on a fact never
    conceded before conviction, even where no pre-conviction
    trial was ever held.
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                 35
    That is precisely what the government proposed here —
    a bench trial as a substitute for the trial by jury required by
    Apprendi, in which evidence never submitted to any jury is
    presented for the first and only time to a judge. To sanction
    such a procedure is to allow the protections accorded by
    Apprendi entirely to atrophy.
    Were we to countenance governmental introduction of
    evidence for the sole, explicit purpose of defeating harmless-
    error review, we would be approving a court doing “just what
    [the Supreme Court] ha[s] said it cannot: relying on its own
    finding about a non-elemental fact to increase a defendant’s
    maximum sentence.” Descamps v. United States, 
    133 S. Ct. 2276
    , 2288–89 (2013); see also Shepard v. United States,
    
    544 U.S. 13
    , 25 (2005) (plurality opinion); 
    id. at 28
    (Thomas,
    J., concurring in part and concurring in judgment). Descamps
    applied this prohibition broadly, resoundingly rejecting our
    circuit’s prior approach, which had authorized “the court to
    try to discern what a trial showed, or a plea proceeding
    revealed, about the defendant’s underlying conduct,” and
    emphasizing that “[t]he Sixth Amendment contemplates that
    a jury — not a sentencing court — will find such facts,
    unanimously and beyond a reasonable 
    doubt.” 133 S. Ct. at 2288
    .
    Zepeda-Martinez purportedly used post-conviction
    evidence as a mere “guide” to determining what would have
    ensued in a jury trial and then predicting whether a reasonable
    jury necessarily would have found the facts essential to the
    crime charged beyond a reasonable doubt. But this mode of
    analysis is judicial fact-finding of precisely the sort
    Descamps proscribes: It requires going behind the fact of
    conviction to establish what evidence the parties would have
    introduced at a trial, and then relies on evaluation of that
    36          UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO
    evidence to impose a sentence greater than the maximum
    sentence that Congress intended. Moreover, as in United
    States v. Aguila-Montes de Oca, 
    655 F.3d 915
    , 918 (9th Cir.
    2011) (en banc), abrogated by 
    Descamps, 133 S. Ct. at 2282
    –83, in cases like Zepeda-Martinez and Hunt, and this
    case, no trial occurred, so guesses about what would have
    occurred at trial are entirely hypothetical.
    III.
    The government’s proposal that we affirm the instant
    sentence on harmless-error review would require us to hold
    that because the government produced an execution-of-
    warrant form at sentencing, Guerrero-Jasso’s constitutional
    right, absent waiver, to have the essential fact of his removal
    date put to a jury and proved beyond a reasonable doubt can
    go by the wayside. Quite aside from the reasons we give in
    the panel opinion for rejecting this proposition, it is one that,
    in my view, should not be entertained at all. Neither Neder
    nor Recuenco support such a result. And, by affording
    penalty provisions that increase a maximum statutory
    sentence the protections of the Sixth Amendment and
    reasonable-doubt standard, the Supreme Court has forbid it.
    See 
    Apprendi, 530 U.S. at 477
    . Instead, harmless-error
    review in Apprendi cases must respect the principle that a
    court may not itself make a finding as to a disputed fact — as
    opposed to an assessment of harmless error on a pre-
    conviction trial record — in situations where fact-finding
    would increase the statutory maximum. If the defendant did
    not admit an essential fact during his plea colloquy and
    evidence concerning the fact was not put to a jury, it violates
    Apprendi for a court to allow the government, post-
    conviction, to introduce new evidence, find that evidence of
    the fact would have been introduced in a hypothetical jury
    UNITED STATES V. GUERRERO-JASSO                 37
    trial, and then determine that the essential fact would have
    been found by the hypothetical jury had the newly produced
    evidence been before it.
    With our expansive approach to harmless error in
    Apprendi cases, especially in guilty plea cases, Apprendi’s
    protections could become protections in name only. Indeed,
    although I have no reason to think that the Apprendi error in
    this case was engineered by the government, our current
    Apprendi harmless-error methodology could encourage
    prosecutors to do exactly that — consciously allow Apprendi
    error, and then introduce the omitted evidence for the first
    time at sentencing, thereby bypassing the jury trial protection
    underlying Apprendi. We should stop this process in its
    tracks by reconsidering en banc our Apprendi harmless-error
    cases, particularly Zepeda-Martinez.