In re T.G. ( 2020 )


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  • Filed 12/8/20
    CERTIFIED FOR PUBLICATION
    IN THE COURT OF APPEAL OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
    SECOND APPELLATE DISTRICT
    DIVISION SEVEN
    In re T.G. et al., Persons Coming   B303987
    Under the Juvenile Court Law.       (Los Angeles County
    Super. Ct.
    Nos. 17CCJP02322B-D)
    LOS ANGELES COUNTY
    DEPARTMENT OF CHILDREN
    AND FAMILY SERVICES,
    Plaintiff and Respondent,
    v.
    TAMARA S.,
    Defendant and Appellant.
    In re JAZMINE H., a Person          B304055
    Coming Under the Juvenile           (Los Angeles County Super.
    Court Law.                          Ct. No. 17CCJP02322A)
    LOS ANGELES COUNTY
    DEPARTMENT OF CHILDREN
    AND FAMILY SERVICES,
    Plaintiff and Respondent,
    v.
    JASON H.,
    Defendant and Appellant.
    APPEALS from orders of the Superior Court of Los Angeles
    County, Emma Castro, Juvenile Court Referee. The
    section 366.26 orders are conditionally reversed. The matters are
    remanded with directions.
    Pamela Deavours, under appointment by the Court of
    Appeal, for Defendant and Appellant Tamara S.
    Marissa Coffey, under appointment by the Court of Appeal,
    for Defendant and Appellant Jason H.
    Mary C. Wickham, County Counsel, Kim Nemoy, Acting
    Assistant County Counsel, and William D. Thetford, Principal
    Deputy County Counsel, for Plaintiff and Respondent.
    ________________
    Tamara S. is the mother of four children, 16-year-old
    Jazmine H., 14-year-old T.G., 12-year-old N.G. and eight-year-old
    P.G. Jason H. is the biological father of Jazmine. Shaka G. is the
    presumed father of T.G., N.G. and P.G. All four children were
    declared dependents of the juvenile court, removed from parental
    custody and placed with the same nonrelated extended family
    members who were subsequently appointed their legal guardians.
    In separate appeals Jason H. challenges the juvenile court’s order
    pursuant to Welfare and Institutions Code section 366.261
    granting a guardianship, appointing legal guardians and
    terminating its jurisdiction as to Jazmine (B304055), and Tamara
    challenges the section 366.26 orders granting guardianships,
    appointing legal guardians and terminating jurisdiction as to
    T.G., N.G. and P.G. (B303987).
    The sole issue in both appeals is whether the juvenile court
    and the Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family
    1     Statutory references are to this code unless otherwise
    stated.
    2
    Services (Department) complied with their duties of inquiry and
    notice under the Indian Child Welfare Act of 1978 (
    25 U.S.C. § 1901
     et seq.) (ICWA) and related California law. We agree the
    Department failed to adequately investigate Tamara’s claim of
    Indian ancestry and the juvenile court failed to ensure an
    appropriate inquiry had been conducted before concluding, if it
    ever actually did, ICWA did not apply to these proceedings.
    In reaching this result, we disagree with the holding in In re
    Austin J. (2020) 
    47 Cal.App.5th 870
    , 888-889 (Austin J.) that
    amendments enacted by Assembly Bill No. 3176 (2017-2018
    Reg. Sess.) (Assembly Bill 3176) were intended to limit the
    Department’s robust duty of inquiry. Accordingly, we
    conditionally reverse the orders for legal guardianship and
    remand the matters to allow the Department and the juvenile
    court to rectify their errors and to take all other necessary
    corrective actions.
    FACTUAL AND PROCEDURAL BACKGROUND
    1. The Dependency Proceedings
    The children were initially removed from parental custody
    on December 1, 2017. Jazmine and P.G. were placed with
    nonrelated extended family members Bridget L. and her
    husband, Eric L.2 T.G. and N.G. were initially placed with their
    maternal grandmother, Loretta S., but in July 2018 joined
    Jazmine and P.G. at Bridget and Eric’s home.
    On December 7, 2017 the Department filed a petition on
    behalf of the children pursuant to section 300, subdivisions (a)
    and (b)(1), alleging Tamara and Shaka had a history of domestic
    2     Bridget is the godmother for some of the children. She and
    Eric have known Tamara and her family for years and had been
    neighbors in the past.
    3
    violence in the presence of the children; Tamara had a history of
    mental and emotional problems; and Tamara allowed the
    children to reside with Jazmine’s paternal grandmother, who
    Tamara knew was an abuser of marijuana. At the initial
    detention hearing on December 8, 2017 the court found a prima
    facie case for detaining the children.
    In February 2018 the juvenile court ordered a paternity
    test be conducted for Jason and Jazmine. In March 2018 the
    court found Jason was Jazmine’s biological father based on the
    DNA test results.
    On March 28, 2018 the Department filed a first amended
    petition adding allegations concerning Tamara’s history of abuse
    of prescription drugs and Jason’s criminal history. In addition,
    the first amended petition alleged Tamara had neglected
    Jazmine’s medical needs.
    The court sustained in part the first amended petition, as
    further amended by interlineation, at a jurisdiction hearing on
    April 20, 2018.3 The children were declared dependents of the
    juvenile court and suitably placed under the supervision of the
    Department. The court ordered family reunification services for
    Tamara and Shaka. No services were ordered for Jason, who was
    3      The court sustained under section 300, subdivisions (a) and
    (b)(1), counts alleging Tamara and Shaka had a history of
    domestic violence and engaged in violent altercations in front of
    the children; under subdivision (b)(1) counts alleging Tamara had
    a history of mental and emotional problems and failed to
    regularly participate in mental health services, and Tamara
    failed to obtain necessary medical care for Jazmine; and under
    subdivision (j) a count alleging Tamara’s medical neglect of
    Jazmine endangered the other children. The remaining counts
    were dismissed. Jason was nonoffending.
    4
    a biological father only and was incarcerated with an estimated
    release date at least one year away.4
    At the six-month review hearing (§ 366.21, subd. (e)) in
    October 2018, the court found Tamara and Shaka had
    participated only minimally in their case plans. Further
    reunification services were ordered. At the 12-month review
    hearing (§ 366.21, subd. (f)) in February 2019, the court found
    Tamara’s and Shaka’s participation in services had been
    “nonexistent.” The court terminated reunification services and
    set the matter for a selection and implementation hearing
    pursuant to section 366.26.
    The Department initially recommended adoption as the
    permanent plan for the children. However, Bridget and Eric L.
    stated their preference for legal guardianships, and the
    Department modified its recommendation accordingly.
    At a continued section 366.26 hearing on January 7, 2020,
    applying section 366.26, subdivision (c)(1)(A)’s exception to the
    legislative preference for adoption as the permanent plan, the
    court found by clear and convincing evidence that the children
    were adoptable but were living with relatives who were unable or
    unwilling to adopt the children and were able to provide stability
    and permanency through legal guardianship. The court further
    found it would be detrimental to remove the children from their
    relatives’ home and would be detrimental to return them to their
    parents.5 Legal guardianship was ordered as the children’s
    4     Jason was apparently released from prison in April 2019.
    5     In addition to the court’s findings pursuant to
    section 366.26, subdivision (c)(1)(A), the minute orders for the
    January 7, 2020 hearing state the court found by clear and
    convincing evidence that the children were not likely to be
    5
    permanent plan, and Bridget and Eric L. were appointed the
    legal guardians of each child. Jurisdiction was terminated as to
    Jazmine. The matter was continued as to T.G., N.G. and P.G. to
    January 24, 2020 to resolve an issue of visitation. Jurisdiction
    was terminated as to those three children on that date.
    2. ICWA Information and Inquiry
    a. The initial ICWA forms and the detention hearing
    Judicial Council form ICWA-010(A), prepared by the
    Department and attached to the original dependency petition
    filed on December 7, 2017, stated the children may have Indian
    ancestry. The form indicated Tamara had been questioned in
    person on November 22, 2017 and reported her father (that is,
    the children’s maternal grandfather) had Indian ancestry, “but no
    connection to a tribe. No additional information was given.” The
    detention report filed December 7, 2017 contained the same
    information.
    On Tamara’s ICWA-020 form with Jazmine’s name and
    case designation, 17CCJP02322A, filed at the time of the
    detention hearing on December 8, 2017, the preparer checked the
    box for “I may have Indian ancestry,” inserted Cherokee as the
    name of the band or tribe on Tamara’s maternal side, and
    additionally indicated possible Indian ancestry on Tamara’s
    paternal side through her great-grandfather, Theodore S. The
    date “7-4-30” was written below the paternal great-grandfather’s
    name. On the ICWA-020 forms filed at the same time for the
    other three children, with case designations 17CCJP02322B-D,
    the preparer simply checked the box for “I may have Indian
    adopted. The reporter’s transcript of the January 7, 2020 hearing
    does not include any such finding.
    6
    ancestry,” omitting the additional details provided to the court on
    Jazmine’s form.6
    At the December 8, 2017 detention hearing for all
    four children, the court stated Tamara’s ICWA-020 indicated she
    may have American Indian ancestry. The court asked Loretta S.,
    who had been identified on the record as the maternal
    grandmother, if she had American Indian ancestry on her side of
    the family. Loretta S. answered, “Yes.” The court inquired, “And
    what tribe?” Loretta S. answered, “Cherokee.” The following
    colloquy then occurred:
    “The Maternal Grandmother: Well, that’s what—from my
    understanding from what my mother told me.
    “The Court: From family history, you’ve been told that you
    have Cherokee Nation Heritage?
    “The Maternal Grandmother: Yes.
    “The Court: Ms. S[.], Mother, is that where you’re claiming
    heritage is through your mother?
    “The Mother: On my father’s side.
    “The Court: Your mother and your father’s side. All right.
    So do you know—would it be fair to say you don’t know the
    ancestor through which you claim Cherokee heritage?
    “The Maternal Grandmother: No, I don’t.
    “The Court: And on your father’s side Ms. S[.], Mother,
    who do you claim heritage through?
    “The Mother: I don’t know
    “The Court: So, what do you know about American Indian
    heritage through your father’s side, if you can tell me?
    6   It appears counsel, not Tamara, may have prepared the
    ICWA-020 forms.
    7
    “The Mother: Through my grandfather. He’s deceased
    now. He told us about my background.
    “The Court: So that’s your father’s father?
    “The Mother: Yes.
    “The Court: And what was his name?
    “The Mother: Theodore S[.]. [¶] . . . [¶]
    “The Court: Okay. And is there anyone still living that
    knows the birth date for Theodore S[.]?
    “The Mother: My aunt.
    “The Court: So you’d be able to contact your aunt and find
    out more information about what relative claimed heritage and/or
    your grandfather’s birth date?
    “The Mother: Yes.
    “The Court: And if you’ll be kind enough to do that and
    report to the social worker by the end of next week.
    “The Mother: Yes. [¶] . . . [¶]
    “The Maternal Grandmother: I know the birth day.
    “The Court: Okay. For Theodore S[.]?
    “The Maternal Grandmother: Yes. 7-4-30.
    “The Court: Did they advise you what tribe was the Native
    American heritage?
    “The Mother: No.”
    The court then made the following order, the meaning and
    significance of which is disputed by the parties: “So, Cherokee on
    the maternal grandmother’s side. And unknown— The
    Department is to send notice to the Department of the Interior,
    the Bureau of Indian Affairs, and the Cherokee Nation. As to the
    Cherokee Nation, first, the Department—strike that. As to a
    specific tribe, on Mother’s statement that her paternal
    grandfather had American Indian heritage, once the mother
    8
    contacts her aunt, if there is a specific tribe that is identified, the
    Department is to provide notice to that tribe as well. Right now
    all we know from the maternal grandmother, Loretta S[.], who’s
    present in court, is that she believes it was the Cherokee Nation
    tribe on her side of the family. Correct?” Loretta S. responded,
    “Correct.”
    The reporter’s transcript from the detention hearing does
    not include any other ICWA discussion or ICWA finding by the
    court. Despite that, and notwithstanding the exchange among
    the court, Tamara and Loretta S. just quoted, the minute order
    for the December 8, 2017 detention hearing recited, “The Court
    does not have a reason to know that this is an Indian Child, as
    defined under ICWA, and does not order notice to any tribe or the
    BIA. Parents are to keep the Department, their Attorney and the
    Court aware of any new information relating to possible ICWA
    status.” The minute order additionally stated, “The
    determination of ICWA status is deferred for father’s
    appearance.”
    b. Further ICWA inquiry, the jurisdiction/disposition
    report and the jurisdiction hearing
    According to the Department’s February 6, 2018
    jurisdiction/disposition report, Tamara had advised the
    Department on January 18, 2018 that the paternal side of her
    family had “Khalifian Native American Ancestry.”7 She was
    unable to provide additional information, Tamara explained,
    because her paternal relatives did not talk about their
    background.
    7        The Khalifian (or Califian) is not a federally recognized
    tribe.
    9
    The jurisdiction/disposition report and subsequent court
    filings by the Department reflect ongoing contact between the
    Department and Loretta S., as well as with other maternal
    relatives, but no indication of any efforts to develop additional
    information concerning Indian ancestry through that side of
    Tamara’s family. The February 6, 2018 report stated ICWA
    “does or may apply.”
    The jurisdiction hearing was continued from February 6,
    2018 to April 12, 2018. At the February 6, 2018 hearing,
    however, in addition to formal detention findings as to Shaka and
    discussion of T.G., N.G. and P.G.’s possible American Indian
    ancestry through him, the Department’s counsel observed, “I also
    saw that the court ordered notice to Cherokee. Mother had
    alleged, I guess, Native American.” The court8 inquired, “Do we
    have that notice?” Counsel responded, “I don’t see it.” The court
    then ordered, “For the R.O.R. [a March 29, 2018 nonappearance
    receipt-of-report date], Notice to the Cherokee Nation. Also, if it
    was to the Cherokee Nation, it’s the Bureau of Indian Affairs and
    the Department of the Interior. I see that on the detention
    report.”
    The minute order for the February 6, 2018 hearing
    indicates the Department was ordered to investigate Shaka’s
    claim of possible American Indian ancestry and to include details
    regarding that investigation in its next report to the court. It
    also states, “DCFS is to send notice to appropriate tribe(s), the
    bureau of Indian affairs and the secretary of the interior,” but
    does not include the court’s express direction to provide notice to
    8     Juvenile Court Referee Emma Castro was the bench officer
    at both the detention hearing and the February 6, 2018 hearing.
    10
    the Cherokee Nation. There is no dispute that no ICWA notice of
    any sort was ever sent in these proceedings.
    c. Subsequent reports concerning ICWA status
    As had the February 2018 jurisdiction/disposition report,
    an interim review report dated April 12, 2018 and prepared for
    the continued jurisdiction hearing stated ICWA does or may
    apply.9 However, the interim review report filed the following
    month on May 11, 2018 simply stated ICWA does not apply; no
    explanation was provided. A status review report dated
    February 7, 2019, prepared for the 12-month review hearing,
    again stated ICWA does not apply and asserted the court had
    found ICWA did not apply at the detention hearing on
    December 8, 2017. That same statement was thereafter repeated
    in all subsequent reports, including the report for the
    section 366.26 selection and implementation hearings at issue in
    9     The April 12, 2018 report also stated Shaka had disclaimed
    any Indian ancestry during a February 21, 2018 telephone
    interview with one of the Department’s dependency investigators.
    Presumably, therefore, the continuing comment that ICWA may
    apply was based on Tamara’s statements.
    At the jurisdiction hearing on April 12, 2018 the court
    admitted exhibits presented by the parties, heard argument and
    then continued the hearing to April 20, 2018. The reporter’s
    transcript contains no mention of ICWA. The minute orders from
    that date state, “No Indian Ancestry is declared on [Shaka’s]
    ICWA-020 form.” The minute order contains no other reference
    to ICWA, and the minute orders from the continued jurisdiction
    hearing on April 20, 2018 do not mention ICWA. In subsequent
    reports the Department noted the reference in the April 12, 2018
    minute order to Shaka’s ICWA-020 form.
    11
    these appeals. None of the court’s subsequent orders includes
    ICWA findings.
    DISCUSSION
    1. ICWA and the Duties of Inquiry and Notice
    ICWA reflects a congressional determination to protect
    Indian children and to promote the stability and security of
    Indian tribes and families by establishing minimum federal
    standards a state court must follow before removing an Indian
    child from his or her family. (
    25 U.S.C. § 1902
    ; see In re
    Isaiah W. (2016) 
    1 Cal.5th 1
    , 7-8 (Isaiah W.); In re W.B. (2012)
    
    55 Cal.4th 30
    , 47.)10 As the Supreme Court explained in
    Isaiah W., “Congress enacted ICWA in 1978 in response to ‘rising
    concern in the mid-1970’s over the consequences to Indian
    children, Indian families, and Indian tribes of abusive
    child welfare practices that resulted in the separation of large
    numbers of Indian children from their families and tribes
    through adoption or foster care placement, usually in non-Indian
    homes.’” (Isaiah W., at p. 7.)11
    10     For purposes of ICWA, an “Indian child” is an unmarried
    individual under age 18 who is either a member of a federally
    recognized Indian tribe or is eligible for membership in a
    federally recognized tribe and is the biological child of a member
    of a federally recognized tribe. (See 
    25 U.S.C. § 1903
    (4)
    [definition of “‘Indian child’”] & (8) [definition of “‘Indian tribe’”];
    see also Welf. & Inst. Code, § 224.1, subd. (a) [adopting federal
    definitions].)
    11     In its executive summary to the federal regulations adopted
    in 2016 to promote ICWA compliance, the Bureau of Indian
    Affairs provided a further description of the tragic conditions that
    led to enactment of ICWA: “The empirical and anecdotal
    evidence showed that Indian children were separated from their
    12
    ICWA significantly limits state court actions concerning
    out-of-family placements for Indian children. “When ICWA
    applies, a state court may not, for example, make a foster care
    placement of an Indian child or terminate parental rights to an
    Indian child unless the court is satisfied ‘that active efforts have
    been made to provide remedial services and rehabilitative
    programs designed to prevent the breakup of the Indian family
    and that these efforts have proved unsuccessful.’ [Citations.]
    Prior to placing an Indian child in foster care, the court must also
    make ‘a determination, supported by clear and convincing
    evidence, including testimony of qualified expert witnesses, that
    the continued custody of the child by the parent or Indian
    custodian is likely to result in serious emotional or physical
    damage to the child.’” (Austin J., supra, 47 Cal.App.5th at
    p. 882.) ICWA and the controlling federal regulations
    (see 25 C.F.R. pt. 23 (2020)) simply set a floor for minimal
    procedural protections for Indian children, their families and
    their tribes; the statute authorizes states to provide “a higher
    families at significantly higher rates than non-Indian children.
    In some States, between 25 and 35 percent of Indian children
    were living in foster care, adoptive care, or institutions.
    [Citation.] Indian children removed from their homes were most
    often placed in non-Indian foster care and adoptive homes.
    [Citation.] These separations contributed to a number of
    problems, including the erosion of a generation of Indians from
    Tribal communities, loss of Indian traditions and culture, and
    long-term emotional effects on Indian children caused by loss of
    their Indian identity. [Citation.] [¶] Congress found that
    removal of children and unnecessary termination of parental
    rights were utilized to separate Indian children from their Indian
    communities.” (81 Fed.Reg. 38780 (June 14, 2016).)
    13
    standard of protection to the rights of the parent or Indian
    custodian of an Indian child than the rights provided under”
    ICWA. (
    25 U.S.C. § 1921
    ; see In re Abbigail A. (2016) 
    1 Cal.5th 83
    , 93; Austin J., at p. 883.)
    a. Notice when there is “reason to know”
    Notice to Indian tribes is central to effectuating ICWA’s
    purpose, enabling a tribe to determine whether the child involved
    in a dependency proceeding is an Indian child and, if so, whether
    to intervene in, or exercise jurisdiction over, the matter.
    (Isaiah W., supra, 1 Cal.5th at p. 8.) Notice to the parent or
    Indian custodian and the Indian child’s tribe is required
    by ICWA in state court proceedings seeking foster care placement
    or termination of parental rights “where the court knows or has
    reason to know that an Indian child is involved.” (
    25 U.S.C. § 1912
    (a).) Similarly, California law requires notice to the
    parent, legal guardian or Indian custodian and the Indian child’s
    tribe if the child protective agency or court “knows or has reason
    to know . . . that an Indian child is involved” in the proceedings.
    (Welf & Inst. Code, § 224.3, subds. (a), (b); see Austin J., supra,
    47 Cal.App.5th at pp. 884-885; In re D.S. (2020) 
    46 Cal.App.5th 1041
    , 1050; see also Cal. Rules of Court, rule 5.481(c)(1) [notice is
    required “[i]f it is known or there is reason to know that an
    Indian child is involved in a proceeding listed in rule 5.480,”
    which includes all dependency cases filed under Welfare and
    Institutions Code section 300].)12
    With respect to the notice requirement, in language
    substantially the same as that of the controlling federal
    regulation (
    25 C.F.R. § 23.107
    (c) (2020)), Welfare and Institutions
    12    References to rules are to the California Rules of Court.
    14
    Code section 224.2, subdivision (d), provides, “There is reason to
    know a child involved in a proceeding is an Indian child under
    any of the following circumstances: [¶] (1) A person having an
    interest in the child, including the child, an officer of the court, a
    tribe, an Indian organization, a public or private agency, or a
    member of the child’s extended family informs the court that the
    child is an Indian child. [¶] (2) The residence or domicile of the
    child, the child’s parents, or Indian custodian is on a reservation
    or in an Alaska Native village. [¶] (3) Any participant in the
    proceeding, officer of the court, Indian tribe, Indian organization,
    or agency informs the court that it has discovered information
    indicating that the child is an Indian child. [¶] (4) The child who
    is the subject of the proceeding gives the court reason to know
    that the child is an Indian child. [¶] (5) The court is informed that
    the child is or has been a ward of a tribal court. [¶] (6) The court
    is informed that either parent or the child possess an
    identification card indicating membership or citizenship in an
    Indian tribe.”13 (See also rule 5.481(b)(1).)
    13     As explained in Austin J., supra, 47 Cal.App.5th at
    pages 884-885, “In 2018, the Legislature enacted changes to the
    state’s ICWA-related statutes for the purpose of conforming state
    law to recent changes in federal ICWA regulations. [Citations.]
    The changes included a redefinition of the ‘reason to know’
    requirement that triggers the duty to give notice of the
    proceedings to Indian tribes. . . . . [¶] This definition . . . replaced
    a definition under which the court would have a ‘reason to know’
    that a ‘child is an Indian child’ based merely upon ‘information
    suggesting the child is a member of a tribe or eligible for
    membership in a tribe or one or more of the child’s biological
    parents, grandparents, or great-grandparents are or were a
    member of a tribe.’”
    15
    b. The initial inquiry and the duty of further inquiry
    Oral transmission of relevant information from generation
    to generation and the vagaries of translating from Indian
    languages to English combine to create the very real possibility
    that a parent’s or other relative’s identification of the family’s
    tribal affiliation is not accurate. Accordingly, just as proper
    notice to Indian tribes is central to effectuating ICWA’s purpose,
    an adequate investigation of a family member’s belief a child may
    have Indian ancestry is essential to ensuring a tribe entitled to
    ICWA notice will receive it. (See In re Elizabeth M. (2018)
    
    19 Cal.App.5th 768
    , 787.) Yet neither ICWA itself nor the
    implementing federal regulations in effect prior to 2016 imposed
    a duty on courts or child protective agencies to inquire whether a
    child involved in a dependency proceeding was an Indian child.
    (See In re A.B. (2008) 
    164 Cal.App.4th 832
    , 838; In re H.B. (2008)
    
    161 Cal.App.4th 115
    , 120.)
    Notwithstanding this gap in federal law, long-standing,
    albeit nonbinding, federal guidelines urged states to “make
    inquiries to determine if the child involved is a member of an
    The parties agree the law in effect in January 2020 when
    the section 366.26 hearings were held applies to these appeals.
    (See In re A.M. (2020) 
    47 Cal.App.5th 303
    , 321 [“[s]ince Mother is
    appealing from the findings made at the September 6, 2019
    section 366.26 hearing and not those in 2017 or 2018, the current
    ICWA statutes apply”]; see also Isaiah W., supra, 1 Cal.5th at
    p. 10 [“Properly understood, Ashlee’s present appeal does not
    seek to challenge the juvenile court’s finding of ICWA’s
    inapplicability underlying the January 2012 dispositional order.
    It instead seeks to challenge the juvenile court’s finding of
    ICWA’s inapplicability underlying the April 2013 order
    terminating her parental rights”].)
    16
    Indian tribe or if a parent of the child is a member of an Indian
    tribe and the child is eligible for membership in an Indian tribe.”
    (Guidelines for State Courts; Indian Child Custody Proceedings,
    44 Fed.Reg. 67584, 67588, § B.5(a) (Nov. 26, 1979); see In re H.B.,
    supra, 161 Cal.App.4th at p. 121.) Exercising its authority to
    provide a higher standard of protection to Indian families, the
    Legislature incorporated many of the Guideline’s best-practice
    recommendations into California law in 2006 with the passage of
    Senate Bill No. 678 (2005-2006 Reg. Sess.) (Stats. 2006, ch. 838,
    § 1, p. 6536), including enactment of former section 224.3,
    subdivision (a), which provided that courts and county welfare
    departments “have an affirmative and continuing duty to inquire
    whether a child for whom a petition under Section 300 . . . is to
    be, or has been, filed is or may be an Indian child in all
    dependency proceedings and in any juvenile wardship
    proceedings if the child is at risk of entering foster care or is in
    foster care.” (See Isaiah W., supra, 1 Cal.5th at p. 9.)
    Now found in section 224.2, subdivision (a), following
    enactment of Assembly Bill 3176, the court and child protective
    agencies remain under “an affirmative and continuing duty to
    inquire whether a child . . . is or may be an Indian child.” That
    duty to inquire begins with initial contact (§ 224.2, subd. (a)) and
    obligates the juvenile court and child protective agencies to ask
    all relevant involved individuals whether the child may be an
    Indian child. (§ 224.2, subds. (a)-(c); see In re D.F. (2020)
    
    55 Cal.App.5th 558
    , 566.)
    In addition to the court’s and agency’s responsibilities at
    the outset of the proceedings, section 224.2, subdivision (e), in
    effect in January 2020 when the section 366.26 hearings took
    place in these proceedings, imposed a duty of further inquiry
    17
    regarding the possible Indian status of the child “[i]f the court,
    social worker, or probation officer has reason to believe that an
    Indian child is involved in a proceeding.”14 That duty of further
    inquiry requires interviewing, “as soon as practicable,” extended
    family members, contacting the Bureau of Indian Affairs and
    “[c]ontacting the tribe or tribes and any other person that may
    reasonably be expected to have information regarding the child’s
    membership, citizenship status, or eligibility.” (§ 224.2,
    subd. (e)(1)-(3).) This informal contact with the tribe must
    include “sharing information identified by the tribe as necessary
    for the tribe to make a membership or eligibility determination.”
    (§ 224.2, subd. (e)(3); see In re D.F., supra, 55 Cal.App.5th at
    p. 567.)
    In addition, rule 5.481(a)(4) mandates further inquiry if a
    social worker or investigator “knows or has reason to know or
    believe that an Indian child is or may be involved.” Significantly,
    14     As several recent court of appeal decisions have observed,
    in requiring further inquiry when there is a reason to believe an
    Indian child is involved in the proceedings, the Legislature in
    Assembly Bill 3176 did not define the phrase “reason to believe.”
    (See, e.g., In re D.F., supra, 55 Cal.App.5th at p. 566; Austin J.,
    supra, 47 Cal.App.5th at p. 883.) To remedy that omission the
    Legislature in urgency legislation effective September 18, 2020
    amended section 224.2, subdivision (e), to provide, “There is
    reason to believe a child involved in a proceeding is an Indian
    child whenever the court, social worker, or probation officer has
    information suggesting that either the parent of the child or the
    child is a member or may be eligible for membership in an Indian
    tribe.” (Assem. Bill No. 2944 (2019-2020 Reg. Sess.); Stats. 2020,
    ch. 104, § 15.) Notwithstanding this amendment, we refer in our
    opinion to section 224.2, subdivision (e), as it read in January
    2020 when the section 366.26 hearings took place.
    18
    this rule, which is entitled to judicial deference (see In re Abbigail
    A., supra, 1 Cal.5th at p. 92), was amended by the Judicial
    Council, effective January 1, 2020, in conformity with Assembly
    Bill 3176 to add “or believe” to the triggering requirement that an
    Indian child “is or may be involved.” (See Judicial Council of
    Cal., Tribal Ct.– State Ct. Forum, and Family and Juvenile Law
    Advisory Com. Rep., Indian Child Welfare Act (ICWA):
    Implementation of AB 3176 for Indian Children, Sept. 5, 2019,
    p. 11.)15
    15     The California Constitution directs the Judicial Council to
    “adopt rules for court administration, practice and procedure.”
    (Cal. Const., art. VI, § 6, subd. (d); see Welf. & Inst. Code, § 265
    [concerning rules for juvenile courts].) Rules adopted by the
    Judicial Council “are entitled to a measure of judicial deference.”
    (Sara M. v. Superior Court (2005) 
    36 Cal.4th 998
    , 1014; accord,
    In re Abbigail A., supra, 1 Cal.5th at p. 92.) The Judicial Council,
    however, may not adopt rules that are inconsistent with the
    governing statutes. (See In re W.B., supra, 55 Cal.4th at p. 58,
    fn. 17; In re Richard S. (1991) 
    54 Cal.3d 857
    , 863.) “‘In this
    context, a rule is inconsistent with a statute if it conflicts with
    either the statute’s express language or its underlying legislative
    intent.’” (Abbigail A., at p. 92.) Here, the amendment’s inclusion
    of the phrase “reason to know or believe” simply parallels
    Assembly Bill 3176’s use of “reason to believe” in section 224.2,
    subdivision (e), and is fully consistent with the statute’s express
    language, as well as with legislative intent as reflected not only
    in Assembly Bill 3176 but also in the recent amendment to
    section 224.2, subdivision (e), discussed in the preceding footnote.
    19
    2. Jason Has Standing To Appeal as a “Parent” Under
    ICWA
    Describing Jason as “a mere biological father” and citing
    In re Joseph G. (2000) 
    83 Cal.App.4th 712
    , 716, which held an
    alleged biological father who is not a party of record in the
    juvenile court has no standing to appeal an order terminating
    parental rights, the Department urges us to dismiss Jason’s
    appeal for lack of standing. It argues, because Jason never
    appeared and asserted a position in Jazmine’s dependency case,
    he was not a party of record and is not “aggrieved” by the order
    for legal guardianship, a requirement for standing to appeal.
    (See Code Civ. Proc., § 902 [“[a]ny party aggrieved may appeal in
    the cases prescribed in this title”]; Welf. & Inst. Code, § 395,
    subd. (a)(1) [“[a] judgment in a proceeding under Section 300 may
    be appealed in the same manner as any final judgment”].)
    Whatever merit the Department’s standing argument
    regarding a “mere biological parent” may have in other contexts,
    it fails here. Non-Indian parents have standing to raise issues of
    ICWA compliance on appeal. (In re A.W. (2019) 
    38 Cal.App.5th 655
    , 663; In re B.R. (2009) 
    176 Cal.App.4th 773
    , 779-780.) ICWA
    defines a “‘parent’” to include “any biological parent,” while
    excluding “the unwed father where paternity has not been
    acknowledged or established.” (
    25 U.S.C. § 1903
    (9).) As
    discussed, Jason’s status as Jazmine’s biological father was
    established by DNA testing and confirmed by the juvenile court.
    Accordingly, Jason is entitled to appeal the order for legal
    guardianship, challenging the Department’s and the court’s
    compliance with ICWA inquiry and notice requirements.
    20
    3. The Department Did Not Adequately Investigate
    Tamara’s Claim of Indian Ancestry
    Tamara filed an ICWA-020 form at the time of the
    detention hearing declaring her belief she had Cherokee ancestry
    on her maternal side and indicating possible Indian ancestry
    through her paternal grandfather, Theodore S., without
    identifying a tribe. That information was confirmed during the
    detention hearing by both Tamara and Loretta S. Tamara stated
    an aunt might have information about the family’s ancestry on
    the paternal side, and the court asked her to contact the aunt and
    report any additional details she learned. Loretta S., replying to
    the court, said she did not know the ancestor through whom the
    family’s Cherokee ancestry could be traced. The court did not ask
    either Tamara or Loretta S. if other relatives might have
    additional information about the family’s Cherokee ancestry or
    whether anyone other than Tamara’s aunt might have
    information about Indian ancestry on her paternal side.
    These preliminary responses from the mother and
    maternal grandmother of Jazmine, T.G., N.G. and P.G.
    unquestionably provided reason to believe Indian children might
    be involved in these dependency proceedings and triggered the
    Department’s duty to make further inquiry, as mandated by
    section 224.2, subdivision (e), and rule 5.481(a)(4). (See In re
    A.M. (2020) 
    47 Cal.App.5th 303
    , 322 [mother’s statement she had
    been told she may have Indian ancestry with Blackfeet and
    Cherokee tribes and identification of her grandfather as having
    possible Indian ancestry, while not requiring ICWA notice, were
    sufficient to require further inquiry under section 224.2,
    subdivision (e), as amended by Assembly Bill 3176]; see also In re
    Elizabeth M., 
    supra,
     19 Cal.App.5th at pp. 786-787.) The
    21
    Department’s breach of that duty and the juvenile court’s failure
    to ensure compliance require a conditional reversal of the orders
    made at the section 366.26 hearings and a remand for an
    adequate investigation of the children’s Indian ancestry.
    The Department’s arguments that no duty of further
    inquiry existed in this case fail. First, it notes Tamara’s
    ICWA-020 forms for T.G., N.G. and P.G., although reflecting a
    checked box for the statement she may have American Indian
    ancestry, did not include any additional detail regarding the
    children’s possible tribal membership. By that omission, the
    Department contends, Tamara “affirmatively communicated to
    the juvenile court that neither she nor the children were
    members of any Indian tribe.” This argument, which can only be
    described as disingenuous, ignores that Tamara’s ICWA-020 form
    for Jazmine, submitted to the court at the same time as the other
    three forms and before the court at the detention hearing,
    contained the information she knew regarding her maternal and
    paternal relatives. It also fails to acknowledge that Tamara
    again provided this information to the court at the hearing.16
    Tamara affirmatively, and repeatedly, provided the information
    the Department now claims was missing.
    Moreover, even if the additional information had not been
    provided in the ICWA-020 forms, the absence of information
    regarding possible Indian ancestry does not relieve the court of
    its affirmative responsibility to inquire at the first appearance of
    each party whether he or she has reason to know that the
    16    As discussed, the Department’s detention report also
    included information from a November 22, 2017 interview with
    Tamara concerning possible Indian ancestry on the paternal side
    of her family.
    22
    children involved are Indian children. As this court has
    observed, “[T]he burden of coming forward with information to
    determine whether an Indian child may be involved and ICWA
    notice required in a dependency proceeding does not rest
    entirely—or even primarily—on the child and his or her family.”
    (In re Michael V. (2016) 
    3 Cal.App.5th 225
    , 233.) The court here
    fulfilled its initial obligation to ask about Tamara’s possible
    Indian ancestry; it failed, however, to ensure the Department
    complied with its duty of further inquiry based on the responses
    the court had received from Tamara and Loretta S.
    Second, relying on Austin J., supra, 
    47 Cal.App.5th 870
    , the
    Department argues the information provided suggested a “mere
    possibility of Indian ancestry” that was insufficient to trigger the
    need for further inquiry. Austin J. concerned ICWA compliance
    in connection with jurisdiction/disposition hearings held in July
    2019 at which the juvenile court held ICWA did not apply. The
    children’s mother and a maternal great aunt had stated their
    family may have Cherokee ancestry. After observing “[t]ribal
    ancestry is not among the criteria for having a reason to know
    the child is an Indian child” under ICWA or California law after
    the Assembly Bill 3176 amendments (Austin J., at p. 885), the
    court of appeal rejected the mother’s argument the Department
    was required to provide ICWA notice to the children. (Id. at
    p. 887.) The court additionally held the juvenile court had
    satisfied its initial duty of inquiry and no duty of further inquiry
    existed based on the mother’s and a maternal great aunt’s
    statements. (Id. at p. 889.)
    Explaining that “[i]nformation about a tribal connection
    that ‘is too vague, attenuated and speculative’ will not support a
    ‘reason to believe the children might be Indian children,’” the
    23
    Austin J. court held the mother’s statement she may have Indian
    ancestry and had been told her mother had Cherokee ancestry
    and similar statements by the great aunt did not establish a
    reason to believe the children were Indian children as defined in
    ICWA. “At most, they suggest a mere possibility of Indian
    ancestry. Indian ancestry, heritage, or blood quantum, however,
    is not the test; being an Indian child requires that the child be
    either a member of a tribe or a biological child of a member. . . .
    Indian ancestry, without more, does not provide a reason to
    believe that a child is a member of a tribe or is the biological child
    of a member. Here, there is nothing more.” (Austin J., supra,
    47 Cal.App.5th at pp. 888-889.) Even if a claim of Indian
    ancestry suggested the possibility of Indian tribal membership,
    the Austin J. court continued, “that bare suggestion is
    insufficient by itself to establish a reason to believe a child is an
    Indian child.” (Id. at p. 889.)
    We do not agree with Austin J.’s narrow reading of the
    nature and quality of information sufficient to trigger the duty of
    further inquiry.17 In particular, that court’s insistence a parent’s
    express statement of Indian ancestry does not constitute a reason
    to believe an Indian child may be involved is fundamentally at
    odds with well-established ICWA law. To be sure, an “Indian
    child” is defined in terms of tribal membership, not ancestry. But
    the question of membership is determined by the tribes, not the
    17    Although Austin J., supra, 
    47 Cal.App.5th 870
     was decided
    in 2020, because it was reviewing ICWA findings from hearings
    in 2019, the court of appeal did not consider the January 1, 2020
    amendment to rule 5.481(a)(4), which applies in this case and
    requires further inquiry whenever a social worker has reason to
    believe an Indian child may be involved in the proceeding.
    24
    courts or child protective agencies. (See Santa Clara Pueblo v.
    Martinez (1978) 
    436 U.S. 49
    , 65, fn. 21 [
    98 S.Ct. 1670
    , 
    56 L.Ed.2d 106
    ] [Indian tribe is final arbiter of its membership rights];
    § 224.2, subd. (h) [“A determination by an Indian tribe that a
    child is or is not a member of, or eligible for membership in, that
    tribe . . . shall be conclusive. Information that the child is not
    enrolled, or is not eligible for enrollment in, the tribe, is not
    determinative of the child’s membership status unless the tribe
    also confirms in writing that enrollment is a prerequisite for
    membership under tribal law or custom”].) That determination
    often requires providing a tribe with extensive biographical data
    (that is, information about ancestors and ancestry), which is why
    section 224.3, subdivision (a)(5)(C), prescribes in detail the
    information about parents, grandparents and great-grandparents
    that must be included in an ICWA notice.18
    Indeed, the imposition of a duty to inquire that is
    significantly more expansive than the duty to provide ICWA
    notice is premised on the common sense understanding that, over
    time, Indian families, particularly those living in major urban
    centers like Los Angeles, may well have lost the ability to convey
    accurate information regarding their tribal status.19 As a result,
    18    Section 224.3, subdivision (a)(5), requires that an ICWA
    notice contain the names of the child’s “biological parents,
    grandparents, and great-grandparents, or Indian custodians,
    including maiden, married, and former names or aliases, as well
    as their current and former addresses, birth dates, places of birth
    and death, tribal enrollment information of other direct lineal
    ancestors of the child, and any other identifying information, if
    known.”
    19    The Indian Relocation Act of 1956 (Pub.L. No. 84-959,
    
    70 Stat. 986
    ), part of the federal government’s Indian termination
    25
    the information available at the outset of dependency proceedings
    will often be inadequate to ensure the necessary protection of the
    rights and cultural heritage of Indian children, Indian families
    and Indian tribes. (See Cal. ICWA Compliance Task Force, Rep.
    to Cal. Atty. Gen.’s Bur. of Children’s Justice (2017) pp. 26-30.)
    General information from the family about its ancestry
    frequently provides the only available basis to believe an Indian
    child may be involved. (Cf. In re A.M., supra, 47 Cal.App.5th at
    p. 322.) Additional investigation may not develop further
    information establishing the need for ICWA notice, but it is
    essential to the enforcement of the court’s and child protective
    agency’s “affirmative and continuing duty to inquire” to construe
    broadly the duty to make further inquiry. (See Robinson v. Fair
    Employment & Housing Com. (1992) 
    2 Cal.4th 226
    , 233 [remedial
    legislation is to be given a liberal construction to promote its
    objective].)
    We also reject Austin J.’s related assumption that
    Assembly Bill 3176, in addition to conforming language in
    California’s ICWA-based statutes to the language in recently
    adopted federal regulations, was intended to weaken the robust
    requirements for making further inquiry established by then-
    existing case law construing former section 224.3, subdivision (c).
    Under that former statute, further inquiry was required if a
    social worker or court-connected investigator “knows or has
    reason to know that an Indian child is involved.” When Assembly
    policy, “encouraged” Indians to leave their traditional lands and
    to assimilate into the general population in urban areas. (See
    Oeser, Avoiding Extinction, Preserving Culture: Sustainable,
    Sovereignty-Centered Tribal Citizenship Requirements (2015)
    91 N.D. L.Rev. 1, 29 & fn. 146.)
    26
    Bill 3176 modified the definition of “reason to know” to track the
    language in the federal regulations and removed from that
    definition “information suggesting the child is a member of a
    tribe or eligible for membership in a tribe,” it simultaneously
    expanded the language triggering the duty to make further
    inquiry from “knows or has reason to know” to “reason to believe
    an Indian child is involved.” (§ 224.2, subd. (e).) As the Austin J.
    court observed, the phrase “information suggesting” was not
    included in the new “reason to believe” standard. (See Austin J.,
    supra, 47 Cal.App.5th at p. 889.) Nonetheless, it is difficult to
    understand how, as a matter of plain meaning, a parent’s
    statement that she has been told she has Indian ancestry
    through a particular tribe or a specific relative “suggests” her
    child is eligible for tribal membership (see, e.g., In re N.G. (2018)
    
    27 Cal.App.5th 474
    , 481 [duty to make further inquiry triggered
    by initial report that children may have Blackfeet, Navajo or
    Cherokee ancestry]; In re K.R. (2018) 
    20 Cal.App.5th 701
    , 705-
    707 [duty triggered by information children “might have
    Cherokee heritage through their father”]), but does not also
    provide “a reason to believe” the child may be eligible under the
    current statute. (See generally Gund v. County of Trinity (2020)
    
    10 Cal.5th 503
    , 511 [statutory construction begins by considering
    the ordinary meaning of the statutory language].)
    The legislative history of Assembly Bill 3176, moreover,
    belies any inference the amendments were intended to dilute the
    court’s and child protective agency’s affirmative duty of inquiry.
    The report of the Assembly Committee on Judiciary for its
    April 17, 2018 hearing on the legislation, for example, after
    noting the bill codified changes required by the new federal
    regulations into the Welfare and Institutions Code, explained, “In
    27
    this bill, California has a higher standard for determining if a
    child may be an Indian child and requires that further inquiry
    must be undertaken for those children.” (Assem. Com. on
    Judiciary, Rep. on Assem. Bill No. 3176 (2017-2018 Reg. Sess.) as
    amended Apr. 11, 2018, p. 10, italics in original.) Similarly, a
    report from the Senate Rules Committee discussing the final
    version of new section 224.2, subdivision (e), described the
    amendments as “revis[ing] the specific steps a social worker,
    probation officer, or court is required to take in making an
    inquiry of a child’s possible status as an Indian child.” (Sen.
    Rules Com., Off. of Sen. Floor Analyses, 3d reading analysis of
    Assem. Bill No. 3176 (2017-2018 Reg. Sess.) as amended Aug. 17,
    2018, p. 4.) Nothing in that report, or anywhere else in Assembly
    Bill 3176’s legislative history, indicates that, in addition to
    specifying in greater detail how further inquiry is to be
    conducted, the legislation was intended to limit the information
    that would trigger the duty to make further inquiry into a child’s
    “possible status” as an Indian child.
    Finally, the recent amendment to section 224.2,
    subdivision (e), although not directly applicable to these appeals,
    confirms the Legislature’s view the “reason to believe” standard
    requiring further inquiry concerning a child’s possible status as
    an Indian child should be broadly interpreted. As noted, in
    urgency legislation effective September 18, 2020, the Legislature
    amended section 224.2, subdivision (e), to provide in a new
    subdivision (e)(1), “There is reason to believe a child involved in a
    proceeding is an Indian child whenever the court, social worker,
    or probation officer has information suggesting that either the
    parent of the child or the child is a member or may be eligible for
    membership in an Indian tribe. Information suggesting
    28
    membership or eligibility for membership includes, but is not
    limited to, information that indicates, but does not establish, the
    existence of one or more of the grounds for reason to know
    enumerated in paragraphs (1) to (6), inclusive, of subdivision (d).”
    (Assem. Bill No. 2944 (2019-2020 Reg. Sess.); Stats. 2020,
    ch. 104, § 15.)
    In sum, further inquiry is required in these cases. As
    mandated by section 224.2, subdivision (e), on remand the
    juvenile court must promptly direct the Department to make a
    meaningful and thorough inquiry regarding Jazmine’s, T.G.’s,
    N.G.’s and P.G.’s possible Indian ancestry, including interviews
    with extended family members and any other persons who may
    reasonably be expected to have information regarding the
    children’s tribal membership or eligibility for membership and
    contact with any tribes that may have such information. If that
    information establishes a reason to know Indian children are
    involved, notice in accordance with section 224.3 must be
    provided to any tribe that has been identified or, if the tribe could
    not be determined, to the Bureau of Indian Affairs. The
    Department shall thereafter notify the court of its actions and file
    certified mail return receipts for any ICWA notices that were
    sent, together with any responses received. The court must
    determine, on the record, whether the ICWA inquiry and notice
    requirements have been satisfied and whether Jazmine, T.G.,
    N.G. and P.G. are Indian children. If the court finds they are
    Indian children, it is to conduct new section 366.26 hearings, as
    well as all further proceedings, in compliance with ICWA and
    related California law. If not, the court’s original section 366.26
    orders may be reinstated.
    29
    4. The Department’s Failure To Comply with the Order To
    Provide Notice to the Cherokee Nation and the Court’s
    Failure To Make Required ICWA Findings Must Be
    Addressed on Remand
    In their appeals Tamara and Jason point to two additional
    errors that occurred in these proceedings. First, although the
    court at the December 8, 2017 detention hearing ordered the
    Department to provide ICWA notice to the Cherokee Nation, no
    notice was ever given. Second, notwithstanding the statement in
    the minute order from the December 8, 2017 hearing, the
    reporter’s transcript from that hearing reveals the court did not
    make a finding that there was no reason to know Jazmine, T.G.,
    N.G. and P.G. were Indian children and that ICWA did not apply
    to their case; and the court failed thereafter to make the required
    ICWA findings. (See rule 5.482(c) [determination of applicability
    of ICWA].) The Department disputes both contentions.
    As to the order for notice, as discussed, the court, after
    repeating that Tamara had identified Cherokee ancestry on the
    maternal grandmother’s side, ordered, “The Department is to
    send notice to the Department of the Interior, the Bureau of
    Indian Affairs, and the Cherokee Nation.” The court then
    continued, “As to the Cherokee Nation, first, the Department—
    strike that. As to a specific tribe, on Mother’s statement that her
    paternal grandfather had American Indian heritage, once the
    mother contacts her aunt, if there is a specific tribe that is
    identified, the Department is to provide notice to that tribe as
    well.” The Department interprets the court’s statement, “strike
    that,” as applying to its order for notice to the Cherokee Nation,
    eliminating any requirement that the Department send ICWA
    notice at that point. Tamara and Jason argue the court intended
    only to restart its order with respect to the paternal grandfather’s
    30
    potential Indian ancestry, deferring notice concerning that side of
    Tamara’s family until there was information about a specific
    tribe, but not modifying its order based on the maternal
    grandmother’s statement of Cherokee ancestry. Why else, they
    ask, would the court have said the phrase “as well”?
    Looking only to the court’s December 8, 2017 comments,
    the Department’s explanation might be described as unlikely but
    plausible.20 But two months later, advised by the Department’s
    counsel there did not appear to be evidence that notice had been
    given to the Cherokee Nation, the court again ordered notice to
    the tribe, the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the Department of the
    Interior. That order was explicit and unambiguous. The
    Department’s failure to comply was error. Nonetheless, at this
    point the error is harmless. Either further inquiry will establish
    there is, in fact, reason to know the children are Indian children
    and notice as required by section 224.3, subdivisions (a) and (b),
    will be provided to the Cherokee Nation and/or other tribes, or it
    will not. If notice is given and it is determined the children are
    Indian children, the juvenile court will be required to revisit its
    prior orders regarding removal and placement in light of the
    requirements of ICWA and related state law. If the children are
    20     The minute order from the detention hearing states the
    court did not order ICWA notice to any tribe or the Bureau of
    Indian Affairs. Throughout our review of the record in these
    appeals, however, we have encountered minute orders that
    include findings that were not made or, on occasion, are in direct
    conflict with the statements as reported in the hearing
    transcripts. Even under better circumstances the record of the
    court’s oral pronouncements prevails over conflicting minute
    orders. (See In re Nia A. (2016) 
    246 Cal.App.4th 1241
    , 1247,
    fn. 1; In re A.C. (2011) 
    197 Cal.App.4th 796
    , 799-800.)
    31
    not found to be Indian children or notice is not required under
    section 224.3, the failure to comply with the earlier order will not
    have adversely affected the outcome of the proceedings or the
    rights of any Indian tribes. (See In re Breanna S. (2017)
    
    8 Cal.App.5th 636
    , 653.)
    We likewise find the juvenile court erred in failing to make
    findings regarding the applicability of ICWA to these
    proceedings, but leave it to the court to correct that omission on
    remand. We recognize the minute orders for the December 8,
    2017 detention hearing recite the court found it had no reason to
    know that any of the children were Indian children as defined by
    ICWA. But that statement is inconsistent with the reporter’s
    transcript and is contradicted by the Department’s continued
    statement for months after the detention hearing that ICWA does
    or may apply to the case. As just noted, “‘When there is a
    discrepancy between the minute order and the oral
    pronouncement of judgment, the oral pronouncement controls.’”
    (In re Nia A. (2016) 
    246 Cal.App.4th 1241
    , 1247, fn. 1.)
    DISPOSITION
    The section 366.26 orders of the juvenile court are
    conditionally reversed. The matters are remanded to the juvenile
    court for full compliance with the inquiry and notice provisions of
    ICWA and related California law and for further proceedings not
    inconsistent with this opinion.
    PERLUSS, P. J.
    We concur:
    SEGAL, J.                     FEUER, J.
    32