People v. Chambers , 2023 IL App (4th) 210160-U ( 2023 )


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  •             NOTICE                       
    2023 IL App (4th) 210160-U
    FILED
    This Order was filed under
    NOS. 4-21-0160, 4-21-0161, 4-21-0364 cons.                 May 9, 2023
    Supreme Court Rule 23 and is                                                               Carla Bender
    not precedent except in the                                                            4th District Appellate
    limited circumstances allowed           IN THE APPELLATE COURT
    Court, IL
    under Rule 23(e)(1).
    OF ILLINOIS
    FOURTH DISTRICT
    THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS,                        )    Appeal from the
    Plaintiff-Appellee,                              )    Circuit Court of
    v.                                               )    Livingston County
    JONATHAN A. CHAMBERS,                                       )    Nos. 16CF298,
    Defendant-Appellant.                             )         16CF299,
    )         17CF107
    )
    )    Honorable
    )    Jennifer H. Bauknecht,
    Judge Presiding.
    JUSTICE KNECHT delivered the judgment of the court.
    Justices Turner and Cavanagh concurred in the judgment.
    ORDER
    ¶1       Held: (1) Defendant has not established he was denied the effective assistance of
    counsel when counsel failed to object to the admission of allegedly overly
    prejudicial statements during police interviews when the record establishes no
    reasonable probability the outcome of the trial would have been different had
    counsel made the objection.
    (2) The Krankel inquiries into defendant’s pro se posttrial claims of ineffective
    assistance of counsel were adequate.
    (3) Defendant failed to establish plain error in the admission of an alleged
    statement as hearsay.
    ¶2               In this consolidated appeal of three separate direct appeals, defendant, Jonathan
    Chambers, seeks the reversal of three separate convictions. Two of the convictions are for
    unlawful delivery of a controlled substance (720 ILCS 570/401(d)(i) (West 2016)). The third
    conviction is for attempted harassment of a witness (720 ILCS 5/8-4(a), 32-4a(a)(2) (West
    2016)). Defendant was sentenced to concurrent five-year terms of imprisonment for the
    unlawful-delivery offenses and sentenced to eight years’ imprisonment for attempted
    harassment, to be served consecutively to the concurrent five-year terms. Among the arguments
    raised in his appeals are claims he was denied the right to the effective assistance of counsel at
    trial; the preliminary inquiries pursuant to People v. Krankel, 
    102 Ill. 2d 181
    , 
    464 N.E.2d 1045
    (1984), were inadequate; and hearsay was improperly admitted. We affirm.
    ¶3                                      I. BACKGROUND
    ¶4                      A. Trial, Livingston County Case No. 16-CF-298
    ¶5             In case No. 16-CF-298, defendant was charged with the September 2016 unlawful
    delivery of a controlled substance, less than one gram of heroin, to a confidential source and tried
    before a jury in August 2017.
    ¶6             At trial, in addition to witness testimony, the jury heard two video recordings of
    police interrogations of defendant. The confidential source, Amy Spaniol, was the first to testify.
    ¶7             According to Spaniol, she agreed to purchase drugs for the police. On September
    13, 2016, Spaniol learned she could buy heroin from Angela Huffman. She contacted Inspector
    Zachary Benning to inform him of this opportunity. Spaniol then met with Inspector Benning.
    She and her vehicle were searched. Inspector Benning gave Spaniol $40 to purchase the heroin.
    Spaniol left in her vehicle to pick up Huffman at Huffman’s home. The two drove to Sherman
    Avenue in Pontiac. There, defendant, whom she had not seen before this day, approached the
    vehicle on a bicycle. He leaned into the passenger window. Huffman handed defendant the
    money. Defendant handed Huffman the heroin. Huffman then gave the heroin to Spaniol. The
    interaction with defendant lasted “probably” 10 to 15 seconds. Spaniol returned Huffman to her
    house. Spaniol drove to the police station to meet with Inspector Benning and to give him the
    -2-
    heroin.
    ¶8             According to Spaniol, she had not purchased drugs for the police before that day.
    Spaniol agreed to participate in the controlled buy because she “needed to do something to make
    up for what [she] did.” Spaniol testified she had a case pending where she pleaded guilty to
    possession of heroin and was awaiting sentencing. When Spaniol was asked if she hoped the
    sentencing court would take into account her work as a confidential source, Spaniol stated,
    “There’s no guarantee of that.”
    ¶9             Inspector Benning testified he worked as a narcotics officer with the Livingston
    County Sheriff’s Office. After Spaniol contacted him regarding an opportunity to purchase
    heroin, he met with her. A female correctional officer searched Spaniol. Inspector Benning and
    Officer Brian Maier searched Spaniol’s vehicle. No contraband or anything larger than “loose
    change” were found. Officers, including Inspector Benning, followed and observed Spaniol
    during the controlled buy. The location of the transaction was moved twice while Spaniol was
    being surveilled. Inspector Benning learned of the changes in location through text messages he
    was receiving from Spaniol as she was driving. Inspector Benning observed defendant ride the
    bicycle away from Spaniol’s car. At the sheriff’s department, Spaniol handed two bags of heroin
    to Inspector Benning.
    ¶ 10           Inspector Benning interviewed defendant about this transaction in December
    2016. The interview did not occur earlier due to a pending investigation. A video of this
    interview was played for the jury. According to the video, which is a little over three minutes
    long, Inspector Benning asked defendant how long he had been selling heroin in Pontiac.
    Defendant responded he mostly got it for himself. From time to time, defendant had given heroin
    to someone for free. Defendant admitted he had charged someone before. When he did, he
    -3-
    charged $10 for a bag. Defendant could not remember the last time he had provided heroin to
    someone. Inspector Benning informed defendant they watched him deliver to a confidential
    source while on a bike. Defendant asked, “On a bike?” Defendant shook his head and said, “I
    don’t know.” Inspector Benning informed defendant that transaction from a bicycle occurred in
    September. Defendant said he could not “picture that date.” Defendant denied selling heroin to
    Angela Huffman. He said he hung out with her “a lot” and Huffman got heroin from everyone.
    Defendant said Huffman was never a passenger in a car when he was on a bike. Defendant had
    not seen Huffman sitting on the passenger side of a car “ever.” Huffman always rode in the
    backseat. Inspector Benning told defendant he saw him throw a bag of heroin at her.
    ¶ 11           Inspector Benning testified, after the interview, as he was walking with defendant
    from the sheriff’s department to the jail, defendant said he wanted to work for the police and help
    himself. Inspector Benning declined, saying he did not trust defendant as defendant was not
    being honest with him. Defendant then “admitted that he probably did it[,] but he [didn’t]
    remember exactly doing it.”
    ¶ 12           On cross-examination, Inspector Benning testified sometimes it was normal
    operating procedure to have “an audio overhear” or microphone on the confidential source. That
    was not done in this case. Inspector Benning also stated the transaction was not videotaped as the
    vehicles were moving and he believed it was unsafe to drive and record with his cell phone.
    Huffman was the original target of the controlled buy. Inspector Benning agreed Huffman was
    not searched. Inspector Benning did not observe the transaction. He only saw defendant as he
    was walking away. At that time, defendant “was approximately maybe a couple hundred feet”
    from him. Defendant was not stopped or interrogated that day. Marked money used to purchase
    the heroin was not recovered.
    -4-
    ¶ 13           Officer Maier, a police officer with the Dwight police department, testified he
    assisted Inspector Benning with the September 13, 2016, controlled buy. On that day, Officer
    Maier saw defendant on a bicycle. Defendant rode the bicycle to the passenger side of a vehicle.
    Within seconds of his arrival, defendant reached inside the passenger window with a closed fist.
    When defendant pulled his arm from inside the passenger side of the vehicle, he had a closed
    fist. The encounter lasted less than 30 seconds. Spaniol was the driver of the vehicle. Huffman
    sat on the passenger side.
    ¶ 14           According to Officer Maier, he interviewed defendant in December 2016 at the
    sheriff’s department. Over defendant’s standing objection on the ground the interview revealed
    prior bad acts, the recording of that interview was played for the jury.
    ¶ 15           At the beginning of the video, Officer Maier told defendant he knew defendant
    had been selling heroin for quite some time and he was trying to determine why defendant chose
    to sell heroin. Officer Maier questioned whether the motive was for money. Defendant did not
    answer. Officer Maier asked defendant if he was working. Defendant said he was not. Officer
    Maier explained he bought drugs from dealers and from people who sold drugs to support their
    habit. Officer Maier told defendant he had bought drugs from defendant. Defendant repeatedly
    denied Officer Maier purchased drugs from him. Officer Maier insisted he did: “[L]isten, I’m
    telling you I bought drugs off of you. *** Listen, listen to me. I’m telling you, you are selling
    heroin to support your habit. That’s exactly what you are doing. *** You are selling heroin.”
    Officer Maier guaranteed defendant he bought heroin from him. Officer Maier stated he had seen
    defendant sell heroin from a bicycle. Officer Maier repeated he was simply trying to determine
    defendant’s motive for doing so. He said, “It doesn’t seem like you’re trying to be the El Chapo
    of Pontiac.” Officer Maier asked if he was selling to kids. Defendant replied, “F*** no.” Officer
    -5-
    Maier then asked if he was doing it to bring in some extra money as he was out of work.
    Defendant said, “People come down here and sell drugs and they ask me to help them.”
    Defendant said he would help them by talking to a person, but once inside, defendant would not
    touch anything.
    ¶ 16           Officer Maier, according to the video, repeatedly told defendant he watched him
    deal drugs. He emphasized he watched defendant sell “from a bike [—] reach inside a car and do
    a hand[-]to[-]hand.” Shortly after being asked if he wanted to be “the big drug dealer of
    Livingston County” or if he was simply trying to support his children, defendant admitted, “I
    probably have sold a couple bags to somebody to support my habit,” but he denied having sold
    heroin while riding a bike. Officer Maier again asked defendant if he was selling heroin to
    provide for his children. Defendant told Officer Maier that Officer Maier could not help him.
    Wiping tears from his eyes, defendant stated he “did it to buy my kids Christmas gifts.”
    Defendant stated he attempted to stop “cold turkey” but he got “sweats at night.”
    ¶ 17           On cross-examination, Officer Maier testified he was “[p]robably less than” 50
    feet from the transaction. He did not photograph the transaction for fear of jeopardizing
    Spaniol’s safety. Officer Maier agreed he did not observe an actual exchange of drugs for
    money.
    ¶ 18           The State presented testimony establishing the contents of the bags contained
    heroin and Spaniol was searched before the controlled buy. Defendant was found guilty.
    ¶ 19                    B. Trial, Livingston County Case No. 16-CF-299
    ¶ 20           In case No. 16-CF-299, defendant was charged with the December 15, 2016,
    offense of unlawful delivery of a controlled substance, heroin (720 ILCS 570/401(d)(i) (West
    2016)). Because of a mistrial, two trials were held on the charge. Only the testimony from the
    -6-
    retrial is relevant to this appeal.
    ¶ 21            At the June 2017 trial, the State called multiple witnesses. The first to testify was
    Jamie Ware, a confidential informant who worked with Officer Maier. On December 15, 2016,
    Ware testified she called defendant to see if she could get “three for 50,” meaning three bags for
    $50. After the call, Ware contacted Officer Maier. The two met at the liquor store in Dwight,
    Illinois, and then went to the sheriff’s department in Pontiac, Illinois. Ware was provided
    “audio,” which she put in her jacket pocket. Ware was searched and then provided cash from the
    police department to purchase the heroin. Officer Maier drove Ware to about four houses from
    where she was meeting defendant. At the meeting location, Ware went inside and followed
    defendant to the kitchen, where Ware and defendant exchanged the money for drugs. Ware left
    immediately after the exchange. She returned to Officer Maier and gave him the plastic bags.
    ¶ 22            Ware acknowledged, between 2007 and 2011, she had some convictions for theft,
    obstructing, aggravated battery, and retail theft. In 2017, Ware was charged with retail theft, and
    that case remained pending. Ware testified she was not promised anything for her testimony
    other than “consideration.”
    ¶ 23            Officer Maier testified on December 15, 2016, Ware contacted Officer Maier
    regarding the potential to purchase heroin from defendant. When Ware arrived at the police
    department, she was searched for contraband. Ware was provided “prerecorded police money” to
    use for the transaction. This is money the police photocopy. The money was placed in Ware’s
    pocket. Officer Maier and another officer drove Ware to the residence. They dropped off Ware
    directly in front of the residence. Ware exited the vehicle and walked to the front door. Ware was
    under surveillance from the time she entered the residence through the time she exited and
    returned to Officer Maier’s vehicle. Ware handed Officer Maier plastic bags that had a logo
    -7-
    “with a devil’s head.” Those baggies contained a white powdery substance.
    ¶ 24           Officer Maier testified he interviewed defendant “some weeks” after December
    15, 2016, at the Livingston County Sheriff’s Office. A video and audio recording was made of
    that interview and was played for the jury. In the video, defendant admitted he got drugs from
    “Rico.” Defendant stated he was not the only one “doing hand-to-hand [buys].” He admitted
    being a user and having tried to go “cold turkey.” Officer Maier suggested defendant was selling
    heroin to get his children Christmas gifts. Defendant admitted having “probably sold it once or
    twice or something like that.”
    ¶ 25           Two officers testified they searched Ware on December 15, 2016, and found no
    contraband on her. A forensic scientist testified the substance in one of the bags contained
    heroin. The other two bags were not tested, as “the total weight of the three wasn’t going to go
    over any weight statute.”
    ¶ 26           Defendant was found guilty.
    ¶ 27            C. Posttrial Proceedings in Case Nos. 16-CF-298 and 16-CF-299
    ¶ 28           In January 2018, defendant filed multiple pro se motions alleging he was denied
    the effective assistance of counsel. In these motions, he stated the motions applied to his
    conviction for the September 2016 offense, as well as to his conviction for the December 2016
    offense. Reasoning defendant was represented by counsel, the trial court did not address the
    ineffectiveness claims but struck the pro se motions.
    ¶ 29           A joint sentencing hearing was held on his unlawful-delivery convictions. The
    trial court sentenced defendant to concurrent terms of five years in prison.
    ¶ 30                    D. Trial, Livingston County Case No. 17-CF-107
    ¶ 31           In April 2017, the State initially charged defendant with three offenses when he
    -8-
    indirectly contacted Jamie Ware with the intent to deter her from testifying against him at his
    trial for unlawful delivery of a controlled substance (case No. 16-CF-299): harassment of a
    witness (720 ILCS 5/32-4a(a)(2) (West 2016)), bribery (720 ILCS 5/33-1(a) (West 2016)), and
    communication with a witness (720 ILCS 5/32-4(b) (West 2016)). Later, these three charges
    were dismissed, but the charge of attempted harassment of a witness (720 ILCS 5/8-4(a),
    32-4a(a)(2) (West 2016)) was added. For the attempted harassment charge, the State alleged
    defendant, with the intent to commit the offense of harassment of a witness, performed “a
    substantial step toward the commission of that offense” by communicating with “Shad Hamilton
    to discuss his case with Jamie Ware.” Defendant was tried only on the attempt charge.
    ¶ 32           Only two witnesses testified at defendant’s January 2018 jury trial, defendant’s
    friend Shad Hamilton and Officer Maier. The State also introduced into evidence four recordings
    of telephone conversations between Hamilton and defendant, who was incarcerated at the time of
    those conversations.
    ¶ 33           Hamilton had known defendant for over two decades. The two spoke over the
    phone multiple times in January and February 2017 while defendant was incarcerated at the
    Livingston County jail. Hamilton agreed he had listened to the recordings of those conversations
    and the recordings accurately and fairly depicted them.
    ¶ 34           The State then played the recordings for the jury. In the January 25, 2017, call,
    defendant asked Hamilton, “[A]m I good, bro? Like, like I gotta speak in code so you know.
    Like remember when we [were] in Mt. Sterling, what I did for you, right?” Hamilton said he did.
    Defendant repeated, “Am I good?” Hamilton asked defendant if he knew “who it was,” to which
    defendant replied, “[Y]eah, I already know. J.W.” Defendant asked a third time, “Am I good
    though?” Hamilton replied, “Yeah, I think so. She’s going to treatment so she’s not gonna be
    -9-
    there. She probably won’t be there for the—for the trial, you know. She feels bad. You’re her
    friend, man.” Defendant replied he “loved [Ware] to death, bro, like that’s my sister.” Hamilton
    responded, “[Y]ou know she feels bad about the whole situ—. I’m not—I don’t f*** with her
    right now; I’m not talking to her at all.” Defendant interrupted, “[B]ut I need you to though. I
    need you [to] though. *** Don’t just brush her away, like, make sure, like you know.” Hamilton
    did not think Ware would be at the trial as she did not want to testify “in the first place.”
    Hamilton also did not believe the State had a case against defendant if Ware did not show up for
    the trial; defendant agreed. Defendant said, “If I’m good, I’m good, you know what I’m saying. I
    won’t sweat it.”
    ¶ 35           During the second phone call, defendant asked Hamilton if Hamilton had talked
    to Ware. Hamilton replied he had not but he had someone else in mind to talk to her. Hamilton
    said he knew Ware was attending church on Sunday and he would have someone “work on it.”
    Hamilton said he “honestly believe[d]” Ware would not testify as she said she would not.
    Defendant replied, “I hope that’s right because I’m going to take it all—I’m going to take it all
    the way if she’s not. I hope she don’t because you know I love her. I look at her like a sister,
    bro.” Defendant continued, stating he was not angry with Ware. Hamilton replied, “This is some
    f*** up s***, man. I know—I know exactly how you feel. I’ve been through the same s***.”
    Hamilton told defendant to call him later that week.
    ¶ 36           During the third call, which occurred five days later, defendant asked Hamilton if
    everything was “good.” Hamilton replied that it was: “Yeah, you’re good. Just keep in touch
    with me *** I’ll keep you updated.”
    ¶ 37           The fourth call occurred three weeks later. In that call, Hamilton told defendant he
    had spoken “to that one person.” Hamilton told defendant to “take it all the way, you’re good.”
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    Defendant replied, “[T]hanks[,] bro.”
    ¶ 38           Hamilton stated he and defendant were at “Mt. Sterling” together. Defendant was
    friends with someone Hamilton’s “charges were against.” Defendant told Hamilton he would
    talk to that person for Hamilton and that individual would not be present to testify at Hamilton’s
    trial. When defendant asked during the phone conversation if Hamilton remembered Mt.
    Sterling, that situation is what Hamilton thought of.
    ¶ 39           Hamilton spoke to Ware about her testifying at defendant’s trial. Hamilton had
    previously been to rehab. He believed when a person is in rehab that person could not be forced
    to testify. Hamilton denied overtly threatening Ware. Even before defendant was charged, he
    tried to get Ware into treatment. Ware had been in some legal trouble, and Hamilton wanted to
    help her and her baby.
    ¶ 40           Officer Maier, a narcotics investigator with the Livingston County Proactive Unit,
    testified as part of this role, he worked with undercover sources. Ware was an undercover source
    and “a chief witness” in case No. 16-CF-299. During January and February 2017, defendant was
    incarcerated on the controlled-substance charges. Officer Maier listened to recordings of the
    telephone conversations between Hamilton and defendant. The following questions and answers
    occurred, during which an objection was made after the State used the word “help:”
    “[THE STATE]. Did you speak with [Ware] about the
    recordings?
    A. Yes.
    Q. She had come to you regarding help for what was
    happening?
    A. Correct.
    - 11 -
    [DEFENSE COUNSEL]: Objection.
    THE COURT: Hold on. What was the objection?
    [DEFENSE COUNSEL]: Hearsay regarding help.
    THE COURT: That’s not a hearsay statement. Overruled.
    The jury can consider.
    [THE STATE]: Thank you, Judge.
    Q. And without saying anything that she told you, you gave
    her help with the situation. Correct?
    A. Correct.
    Q. And investigated it, as far as getting the phone calls to
    my office?
    A. Correct.”
    ¶ 41         The State, in rebuttal closing argument, referenced “help” from Officer Maier’s
    testimony:
    “And as far as harassment, Jamie Ware sought out the help
    of law enforcement after the conversation. As far as her emotional
    distress, she sought out the help and received from Officer Maier
    assistance in this. She’s not even in the area anymore.
    So as far as evidence of what exactly transpired with Jamie
    Ware and this harassment that the defense says isn’t there, I think
    you have everything you need to find that it is. ***
    The situation clearly put her in a situation where she was
    uncomfortable. Situation where she knew I’m going to be getting,
    - 12 -
    there’s going to be stuff going on if I don’t avoid testifying in
    court.”
    ¶ 42           The jury, during deliberations, posed the following question to the trial court:
    “Can you verify that the officer testified that Jamie Ware contacted Officer Maier after all of the
    phone recordings?” The jury was given the transcript of Officer Maier’s testimony.
    ¶ 43           The jury found defendant guilty of attempted harassment.
    ¶ 44                     E. Posttrial Proceedings in Case No. 17-CF-107
    ¶ 45           In case No. 17-CF-107, defendant was sentenced to eight years’ imprisonment, to
    be served consecutively to the sentences received in case Nos. 16-CF-298 and 16-CF-299.
    ¶ 46           In March 2018, while a posttrial motion filed by counsel was pending, defendant
    filed a pro se motion titled, “motion to appeal sentence and appeal cases, reconsider sentence,” in
    which he alleged errors in this case as well as in the unlawful-delivery cases (case Nos. 16-CF-
    298 and 16-CF-299). Regarding case No. 17-CF-107, defendant alleged his trial counsel
    provided ineffective assistance in that he failed to object to the State’s request for an extended-
    term sentence. He further alleged counsel failed to object to Officer Maier’s testimony that
    included “second[-]hand statements.”
    ¶ 47           Upon finding defendant was represented by counsel, the trial court dismissed
    defendant’s pro se posttrial motion. The court denied counsel’s motion to reconsider the
    sentence. Defendant pursued a direct appeal.
    ¶ 48                F. Defendant’s Postconviction Claim, Case No. 17-CF-107
    ¶ 49           While defendant’s direct appeals in all cases were pending, defendant filed, in
    February 2019, a pro se petition under the Post-Conviction Hearing Act (725 ILCS 5/122-1
    et seq. (West 2018)). In his postconviction petition, defendant raised multiple claims of
    - 13 -
    constitutional error, including he was denied his sixth-amendment right to confront witnesses
    against him when testimonial hearsay was allowed without objection by trial counsel. See U.S.
    Const., amend. VI. Specifically, defendant points to Officer Maier’s testimony Ware came to
    him for “help.”
    ¶ 50           In May 2019, the trial court summarily dismissed defendant’s postconviction
    petition, finding it frivolous and patently without merit. Defendant appealed the dismissal of his
    postconviction petition and the appeal is currently pending before this court (appellate case No.
    4-19-0523).
    ¶ 51                                  G. Defendant’s Appeals
    ¶ 52                  1. Case No. 16-CF-298, Appellate Case No. 4-18-0340
    ¶ 53           One of the issues raised in defendant’s appeal was the trial court’s failure to
    conduct a Krankel injury after he alleged, posttrial, he was denied the effective assistance of
    counsel. The State conceded a Krankel inquiry should have been conducted. We agreed and
    remanded the case for an inquiry into defendant’s pro se claims of ineffective assistance of
    counsel pursuant to Krankel. People v. Chambers, 
    2020 IL App (4th) 180340-U
    , ¶ 2.
    ¶ 54                  2. Case No. 16-CF-299, Appellate Case No. 4-18-0341
    ¶ 55           Similarly, one of the claims raised in defendant’s direct appeal was the trial
    court’s failure to conduct a Krankel inquiry after he alleged, posttrial, he was denied the effective
    assistance of trial counsel. The State again conceded a Krankel hearing should have been held. In
    this case, defendant also raised double-jeopardy arguments, which we rejected. We remanded,
    however, for an inquiry into defendant’s pro se claims of ineffective assistance of counsel
    pursuant to Krankel. People v. Chambers, 
    2021 IL App (4th) 180341-U
    , ¶ 2.
    ¶ 56           3. Case No. 17-CF-107, Appellate Case Nos. 4-18-0342 and 4-19-0523
    - 14 -
    ¶ 57            Both the direct appeal (appellate case No. 4-18-0342) and the appeal from the
    postconviction petition were consolidated for our review (appellate case No. 4-19-0523). In the
    direct appeal of his attempt conviction, defendant asserted, in part, he was entitled to a Krankel
    inquiry. We agreed. We remanded for Krankel inquiry but concluded it would be premature to
    rule on case No. 4-19-0523 until the resolution of the Krankel inquiry. We severed the appeals.
    People v. Chambers, 
    2021 IL App (4th) 180342-U
    , ¶¶ 2, 20, 22.
    ¶ 58                                     H. Krankel Hearing
    ¶ 59                          1. Case Nos. 16-CF-298 and 16-CF-299
    ¶ 60            The Krankel hearings for case Nos. 16-CF-298 and 16-CF-299 were held on the
    same day in March 2021. The issues regarding each case were addressed separately. The court
    first addressed the issues defendant raised as to case No. 16-CF-299.
    ¶ 61            At the beginning of that hearing, the trial court summarized to defendant what it
    believed defendant was arguing. The court surmised defendant was arguing he was denied the
    effective assistance of counsel when trial counsel (1) failed to call two witnesses, Connor
    Corrigan and Angela Cassani, to testify at trial; (2) did not permit defendant to listen to certain
    telephone calls before trial that allegedly contained exculpatory information; (3) developed no
    trial strategy; (4) failed to investigate the case; and (5) did not file a motion to suppress the
    statements.
    ¶ 62            Defendant explained, had the calls from case No. 17-CF-107 been played fully for
    the jury, the jury would have seen he did not commit the offense in case No. 16-CF-299.
    Defendant argued those calls showed Ware told Hamilton she was being pressured by the
    prosecution to testify. The trial court asked defendant if he spoke to Ware. Defendant stated he
    did not but that he relayed what Hamilton had told him. According to defendant, Hamilton said
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    in the call Ware “was going to come to court and tell the truth that [defendant] didn’t do
    anything.” Defendant also maintained Ware told Corrigan and Cassani the same. When the court
    asked defendant how this amounted to ineffective assistance, defendant said he presented the
    affidavits to his trial counsel before trial.
    ¶ 63            As to his allegations regarding a lack of a trial strategy, defendant asserted
    counsel told him he would file a motion to suppress the interrogation but failed to do so. When
    asked if that was all he was arguing, defendant responded as follows: “It’s pretty much
    everything, but once trial started, I was trying to whisper in [trial counsel’s] ear about certain
    things that was stated, and basically it was like, I got this type ordeal. He didn’t object to the
    interrogation videos at the trial when they kept trying to say that I was something like El Chapo,
    or that when they kept lying, stating that they witnessed me do certain things.”
    ¶ 64            The trial court then asked defendant’s trial counsel, Brian Gabor, to address
    defendant’s assertions. Counsel stated, as for the whispering, he had informed defendant to write
    notes during trial instead of whispering. This allowed counsel to continue to hear the witnesses
    while allowing defendant to voice his concerns.
    ¶ 65            Regarding Corrigan and Cassani, counsel stated the affidavits for those witnesses
    were provided to him three to six months after the trial and the guilty verdict. As for the
    allegations regarding the motion to suppress, counsel reported he and defendant often disagreed
    with how to proceed in the case. Counsel did not file the motion to suppress defendant wanted as
    counsel concluded there was no merit to the proposed motion.
    ¶ 66            Counsel also informed the trial court defendant was permitted to listen to the
    recordings of the telephone calls between him and Hamilton before trial. As for the trial
    preparation and tactics, counsel reported having met defendant numerous times at the jail to go
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    through discovery and to discuss how to proceed. While they disagreed at times about trial
    strategy, counsel reported the trial strategy was to question the credibility of Ware and Spaniol,
    to question the officers’ ability to observe and overhear, and to question the quality of the audio
    recordings.
    ¶ 67           The trial court proclaimed for the record it reviewed the reports of proceedings in
    the cases and was familiar with the cases. The court recalled “much of” the matters discussed at
    the Krankel hearing. The court found, based on its observations, defendant “was a difficult client
    to deal with in terms of his expectations for the case.” Defendant exhibited “a little chip on your
    shoulder kind of attitude.” The court recalled defendant constantly talking to counsel during trial.
    The court concluded the cases were “strong cases for the State” and informed defendant the
    following:
    “[N]one of your specific claims of ineffective assistance of counsel
    really rise to the level that you think they do. There just is nothing
    to indicate that you had ineffective assistance of counsel. To the
    contrary, I do think that Mr. Gabor was very well prepared[;] he
    put in a lot of time on this case. I know that because he was very
    well prepared, and there were a number of cases that were
    involved. He knew the evidence, he knew the witnesses, he knew
    the issues, and he did the best that he could with regards to the
    facts that he had.”
    ¶ 68           The trial court concluded Gabor “did an excellent job on this case.” The court
    found, “The problem isn’t Mr. Gabor[;] the problem is the facts of the case. That’s the problem.
    He can only do so much.” The court found defendant’s ineffectiveness claims “vague and
    - 17 -
    conclusory.” The court declined defendant’s request to appoint new counsel and denied
    defendant’s pro se claim.
    ¶ 69                                   2. Case No. 17-CF-107
    ¶ 70            At the start of the Krankel hearing, the trial court adopted its findings from the
    Krankel hearing held in case Nos. 16-CF-298 and 16-CF-299 as those findings related to
    defendant’s arguments in case No. 17-CF-107. The court summarized the arguments defendant
    made in his pro se posttrial motion alleging ineffective assistance of trial counsel as follows:
    “[Y]our complaints about Mr. Gabor were that you were not
    admonished at any point before the trial or after the trial that you
    were extended[-]term eligible on the Class 3 felony attempt
    harassment, that Counsel did not object to the extended[-]term
    sentence, that Counsel did not object to the filing of the amended
    information, that Counsel did not call witnesses, although you
    didn’t, I couldn’t see where you identified any specific witnesses,
    and that Counsel didn’t object to altered phone calls.”
    ¶ 71            After being asked if those were his complaints in this case, defendant agreed they
    were but asserted he had others that were not included in the motion. Among those relevant to
    this appeal are defendant’s contentions (1) the calls were “blended differently” and not “the same
    conversation” he had with Hamilton and (2) the last part of the telephone conversations were not
    played for the jury, which would have shown Ware told Hamilton the state’s attorney was
    harassing her to testify.
    ¶ 72            The trial court then asked counsel to speak to defendant’s allegations. Counsel
    responded to many of defendant’s ineffectiveness claims which are no longer being pursued on
    - 18 -
    appeal. Relevant to this appeal, counsel replied the State had the audio recordings, which spoke
    for themselves.
    ¶ 73           The trial court found defense counsel “very, very extremely prepared.” The court
    found him competent and capable. The court observed the record showed defendant was not
    afraid to speak up in the courtroom. The court noted defendant initially filed a motion to proceed
    with the trials pro se but withdrew his own motion, and defendant interrupted the court multiple
    times. The court emphasized defendant did not, however, once raise concerns about counsel’s
    effectiveness. The court concluded defendant was attempting “to get a second bite at the apple.”
    ¶ 74           The trial court declined to appoint new counsel.
    ¶ 75           This consolidated appeal followed.
    ¶ 76                                      II. ANALYSIS
    ¶ 77                    A. Effectiveness of Counsel, Case No. 16-CF-298
    ¶ 78           Defendant argues he was denied the effective assistance of trial counsel when
    counsel failed to object to the admission of the two interrogation videos as containing irrelevant
    and prejudicial statements. Defendant acknowledges counsel objected to the videos by asserting
    they referred to prior bad acts, an objection the trial court overruled. He, however, highlights as
    irrelevant and overly prejudicial the questions by the officers asking if defendant was trying to be
    the “El Chapo” of Pontiac or if he sold to children and Inspector Benning’s assertion defendant
    was lying as there was “no denying” he sold heroin. Defendant further maintains the record
    reveals a reasonable probability the outcome of the trial would have been different had these
    statements been redacted and not shown to the jury. Defendant emphasizes the fact Spaniol was
    biased as she was seeking consideration in sentencing in her own case and the purchase was not
    controlled as no one searched Huffman.
    - 19 -
    ¶ 79           When a defendant claims denial of the constitutional right to the effective
    assistance of counsel, he or she carries the burden of establishing the two-pronged test set forth
    in Strickland v. Washington, 
    466 U.S. 668
    , 687 (1984). People v. McGath, 
    2017 IL App (4th) 150608
    , ¶ 37, 
    83 N.E.3d 671
    . Under Strickland, to obtain relief, the defendant must prove the
    following: (1) counsel’s representation “was objectively unreasonable under prevailing
    professional norms” and (2) a reasonable probability exists, “ ‘but for counsel’s unprofessional
    errors, the result of the proceeding would have been different.’ ” People v. Domagala, 
    2013 IL 113688
    , ¶ 36, 
    987 N.E.2d 767
     (quoting Strickland, 
    466 U.S. at 694
    ). The second prong, or
    prejudice prong, is satisfied with proof of a probability sufficient to undermine confidence in the
    proceeding’s outcome. See People v. Coleman, 
    2015 IL App (4th) 131045
    , ¶ 80, 
    25 N.E.3d 82
    .
    A defendant’s failure to prove either prong of the Strickland test precludes a finding counsel was
    ineffective. McGath, 
    2017 IL App (4th) 150608
    , ¶ 37.
    ¶ 80           Defendant’s ineffectiveness claims are based on the allegation statements in the
    video were irrelevant and overly prejudicial. To be relevant, evidence must either render a matter
    at issue more or less probable or tend to prove a fact in controversy. See People v. Lynn, 
    388 Ill. App. 3d 272
    , 280, 
    904 N.E.2d 987
    , 994 (2009). “[E]ven relevant evidence may be excluded
    where its probative value is substantially outweighed by its prejudicial effect.” People v.
    Whitfield, 
    2018 IL App (4th) 150948
    , ¶ 47, 
    103 N.E.3d 1096
    . The question of whether evidence
    is relevant and admissible is a question within the trial court’s discretion, meaning we will not
    overturn a decision to admit evidence unless the decision is arbitrary, fanciful, or unreasonable.
    
    Id. ¶ 46
    . The determination of whether evidence is overly prejudicial is also reviewed for an
    abuse of discretion. See People v. Wilson, 
    214 Ill. 2d 127
    , 141, 
    824 N.E.2d 191
    , 199-200 (2005).
    ¶ 81           Without ruling on the reasonableness of trial counsel’s representation, we find
    - 20 -
    defendant cannot prove the second Strickland prong of his claim. There is no reasonable
    probability the outcome of defendant’s trial would have been different absent a showing of the
    video. Spaniol, who had been searched before the controlled buy, identified defendant and not
    Huffman as the individual who sold her heroin. While she had some motivation to assist police
    officers by participating in a controlled purchase, there are no facts to show greater consideration
    would be afforded if defendant were the target of the investigation rather than Huffman. Police
    officers worked together to surveil Spaniol. Both Inspector Benning and Officer Maier testified
    to having observed defendant near the vehicle Spaniol was in. Officer Maier observed defendant,
    while on a bicycle, putting his closed fist inside the vehicle and pulling out a closed fist from the
    vehicle. Inspector Benning saw defendant after he left the vehicle’s side. Spaniol returned to the
    police station with two bags of heroin. After the interview with Inspector Benning, defendant,
    upon seeking to work for the police, admitted he “probably did it” but he did not “remember
    exactly doing it.”
    ¶ 82                           B. Adequacy of the Krankel Hearings
    ¶ 83            In this consolidated appeal, defendant challenged the adequacy of the Krankel
    inquiry in all three cases.
    ¶ 84            A defendant triggers the common-law procedure of Krankel when he or she
    asserts in the trial court a pro se claim of ineffective assistance of counsel. People v. Rhodes,
    
    2019 IL App (4th) 160917
    , ¶ 12, 
    128 N.E.3d 1100
    . The “narrow purpose” of the Krankel inquiry
    is to permit the trial court to determine whether new counsel should be appointed to argue the
    defendant’s pro se posttrial claims of ineffective assistance of counsel. People v. Ayres, 
    2017 IL 120071
    , ¶ 11, 
    88 N.E.3d 732
    .
    ¶ 85            Here, we are tasked with determining “whether the trial court conducted an
    - 21 -
    adequate inquiry into *** defendant’s pro se allegations of ineffective assistance of counsel.”
    People v. Moore, 
    207 Ill. 2d 68
    , 78, 
    797 N.E.2d 631
    , 638 (2003). To perform an adequate
    inquiry, the inquiry must be “sufficient to determine the factual basis of the claim.” Ayres, 
    2017 IL 120071
    , ¶ 11 (quoting People v. Banks, 
    237 Ill. 2d 154
    , 213, 
    934 N.E.2d 435
    , 468 (2010)).
    During this inquiry “some interchange between the trial court and trial counsel regarding the
    facts and circumstances surrounding the allegedly ineffective representation is permissible and
    usually necessary in assessing what further action, if any, is warranted on a defendant’s claim.”
    Moore, 
    207 Ill. 2d at 78
    . The court may evaluate a defendant’s pro se claims of ineffective
    assistance of counsel based on “its knowledge of defense counsel’s performance at trial and the
    insufficiency of the defendant’s allegations on their face.” 
    Id.
     A trial court may also extinguish a
    defendant’s ineffectiveness claims upon finding the claims lack legal or factual merit. See People
    v. Roddis, 
    2020 IL 124352
    , ¶¶ 55, 56, 61. When, however, allegations reveal possible neglect of
    the case, the trial court should appoint new counsel for additional proceedings. Ayres, 
    2017 IL 120071
    , ¶ 11.
    ¶ 86            This court reviews de novo the manner employed by the trial court in conducting
    the Krankel hearing. People v. Lawson, 
    2019 IL App (4th) 180452
    , ¶ 43, 
    139 N.E.3d 663
    .
    ¶ 87                                  1. Case No. 16-CF-298
    ¶ 88            Defendant argues the trial court conducted an inadequate Krankel inquiry into his
    claim trial counsel should have objected to the interrogation videos admitted at trial because the
    court did not address his claim or ask trial counsel to respond to it. Defendant maintains the trial
    court prevented the development of a record sufficient for a determination of whether his claim
    had merit. In addition, because of the court’s alleged animosity toward defendant, he seeks a new
    Krankel inquiry before a different judge.
    - 22 -
    ¶ 89           We do not find the inquiry inadequate. Above, we rejected defendant’s claim
    counsel was ineffective for not objecting to the interrogation videos on the ground of containing
    overly prejudicial information. Recently, the Third District refused to find a Krankel hearing
    inadequate when the same ineffectiveness claim had been found meritless. People v. Barner,
    2022 IL App (3d) 20043-U, ¶¶ 30, 34. We find this approach applicable here. Our determination
    on the effectiveness of counsel turns on the second Strickland prong, i.e., prejudice, and not on
    the question of whether trial counsel’s approach was reasonable or a matter of trial strategy. No
    statement by trial counsel regarding strategy was therefore necessary. The Krankel inquiry on
    this matter was sufficient.
    ¶ 90                                  2. Case No. 16-CF-299
    ¶ 91           Defendant contends the trial court conducted an inadequate Krankel inquiry into
    his claim trial counsel was ineffective for not calling two witnesses who would have testified the
    State pressured Ware to testify and Ware denied buying heroin from defendant. Defendant
    further contends the inquiry was inadequate as he asserted counsel was ineffective in not
    introducing a phone call between defendant and Hamilton in which Hamilton told defendant the
    State was pressuring Ware to testify and Ware said she did not buy heroin from defendant.
    ¶ 92           As to his first claim, regarding trial counsel’s failure to call two witnesses,
    defendant references the affidavits signed by Connor Corrigan and Angelo Cassani. Both
    affidavits appear in the record. Defendant acknowledges in his reply brief these affidavits were
    filed after trial, as counsel asserted during the Krankel hearing. Defendant contends, however,
    the fact the affidavits were signed after trial does not mean trial counsel was possibly ineffective
    for not investigating those witnesses before trial.
    ¶ 93           Defendant’s argument fails, as the record reveals the trial court had sufficient
    - 23 -
    information to determine the factual basis of this claim. The trial court heard defendant’s
    allegation on this matter, and the record contains both affidavits. The affidavits plainly establish
    neither counsel nor defendant knew about these witnesses before trial. In case No. 16-CF-299,
    defendant’s trial was held on June 27, 2017. Cassani signed his affidavit in December 2017. In
    that affidavit, Cassani averred he told defendant of his conversations with Ware after meeting
    defendant at the earliest in August 2017: “I am currently incarcerated in the Livingston County
    jail. When I got here in August of 2017[,] I heard of this guy named Jon-Jon[.] [W]hen I first met
    him I apologized to him for what my friend *** Ware did to him.”
    ¶ 94           Corrigan’s September 2017 affidavit shows Corrigan did not know defendant in
    “June-July, 2017.” According to Corrigan, Ware told him, “[o]n or about June-July, 2017,” that
    she “snitched on Jon-Jon, (Jonathan Chambers).” Corrigan averred “at the time, [he] did not
    know Jon-Jon at all, but [he] felt bad about the situation.” Corrigan then stated he “met Jon-Jon
    for the first time in county jail, where” Corrigan was incarcerated at that time.
    ¶ 95           The trial court was aware of defendant’s factual assertions and of the record
    before it. The Krankel inquiry was sufficient.
    ¶ 96           Defendant next asserts the trial court failed to inquire adequately into his claim
    counsel was ineffective for not introducing at trial the phone conversation he had with Hamilton,
    during which Hamilton relayed Ware’s admission she lied about purchasing heroin from
    defendant. Defendant acknowledges the court gave counsel the opportunity to speak to this
    allegation but contends counsel’s answer was nonresponsive.
    ¶ 97           At the Krankel inquiry, counsel asked the trial court if there was anything else he
    had not addressed. After the court said, “The phone calls with [S]had Hamilton—,” counsel
    replied, “Anything that we had, [defendant] was allowed to review and hear prior to trial.”
    - 24 -
    ¶ 98           We do not find the inquiry inadequate, as the inquiry was adequate to ascertain
    the factual basis of defendant’s claim. First, as defendant admits, the trial court asked both
    defendant and trial counsel to comment on this allegation. Second, the record and the court’s
    observations at trial additionally provide the factual basis necessary to resolve this claim. From
    those sources, the record establishes the use of the recording, as defendant now suggests should
    have been done, would have in fact been catastrophic for him in both case Nos. 16-CF-299 and
    17-CF-107. Even if defendant could have overcome the high hurdle of a hearsay objection to the
    admission of a telephone recording of Hamilton speaking about his alleged conversations with
    Ware, the playing of that recording would have opened the door to the jury hearing defendant’s
    conversations with Hamilton regarding Ware. In those conversations, defendant repeatedly
    insisted Hamilton convince Ware not to testify in case No. 16-CF-299. Defendant also admitted
    other bad conduct in the call, such as admitting he had done something similar on Hamilton’s
    behalf, convincing someone not to testify against Hamilton when Hamilton was incarcerated.
    Moreover, Ware would likely have been called in rebuttal and questioned about the alleged
    conversation with Hamilton. Such testimony may have given the State what it needed to pursue,
    in case No. 17-CF-107, not only charges for the inchoate offense of attempted harassment, but
    also for the completed offense of harassment. No further statement from counsel was needed for
    the court to know what defendant was arguing and to determine whether counsel’s conduct to not
    pursue such a course was reasonable.
    ¶ 99                                  3. Case No. 17-CF-107
    ¶ 100          Defendant argues the trial court’s inquiry into his ineffectiveness claim in case
    No. 17-CF-107 was inadequate for two reasons. First, defendant contends the trial court failed to
    inquire adequately into his claim counsel failed to object to the altered phone calls between
    - 25 -
    Hamilton and him.
    ¶ 101          During the Krankel inquiry, the trial court asked defendant, “What is this altered
    phone call?” Defendant responded as follows: “They was cutting in and out; and you could
    barely hear most of the things that was stated inside the phone calls, like certain things what
    Shad would say or what I say[.] [I]t was like blended differently. It wasn’t like the same
    conversation that was held between me and Shad.” The court asked a follow-up question to
    determine the factual basis of that claim: “And you are just basing that on the fact that you were
    on the phone call?” Defendant replied affirmatively. After eliciting defendant’s explanation on
    this issue and a number of others, the trial court asked counsel to respond in general to
    defendant’s multiple claims. During his explanation, counsel referenced the recordings. The
    language defendant uses in support of his claim counsel was unresponsive to the issue of
    “blended differently” recordings is within the following response:
    “Once the—And when we ended up going to trial on this,
    the State only proceeded to trial on attempted harassment of a
    witness. Once that happened, whether or not anything was actually
    communicated to Ms. Ware by Mr. Hamilton was irrelevant. The
    State had the audios, the overhear where clearly [defendant] and
    Mr. Hamilton were talking about trying to contact Ms. Ware.
    [Defendant] says, oh, no, we have to use code. Let’s talk to JW.
    Honestly, not a very good code. JW, Jamie Ware.
    The audio unfortunately spoke for themselves. So whether
    or not Mr. Hamilton ever contacted Ms. Ware is, at that point[,]
    completely irrelevant.”
    - 26 -
    ¶ 102          The Krankel inquiry was adequate to determine the factual basis for defendant’s
    claim. The trial court heard defendant’s allegation and learned defendant had no factual support
    for that assertion other than he participated in the conversation and heard the recordings.
    Moreover, the court was the same court in which the trial was held, at which the recordings were
    played and heard by the court. Hamilton also testified the recordings accurately represented his
    conversations with defendant. A direct response from counsel was unnecessary to the court’s
    inquiry.
    ¶ 103          Defendant’s second challenge to the adequacy of the trial court’s Krankel inquiry
    relates to his claim counsel should have played for the jury a telephone call during which
    Hamilton told defendant that Ware told Hamilton she was being pressured by the State to testify.
    Defendant contends counsel did not disclose whether he listened to the call or explain his trial
    strategy for not introducing the call.
    ¶ 104          We disagree with defendant’s contention counsel did not respond to this
    allegation. Defense counsel’s response to the trial court’s question included his conclusion, after
    the State dropped the harassment charge to attempted harassment, the issue of “whether or not
    Mr. Hamilton ever contacted Ms. Ware is, at that point[,] completely irrelevant.” While he did
    not say he listened to the call, he provided an explanation for the exclusion of evidence related to
    conversations between Hamilton and Ware.
    ¶ 105          The trial court thus had gained the information necessary to learn the factual basis
    for defendant’s claim. Defendant told the court his concerns at the Krankel inquiry. The court
    knew the facts of the case, including the elements of the charged offense and the witnesses who
    testified. No further information was needed for the trial court to find no merit to this
    ineffectiveness claim.
    - 27 -
    ¶ 106                         4. Allegedly Improper Krankel Inquiry
    ¶ 107          We note in each Krankel-based claim defendant asserts the trial court’s inquiry
    was inadequate as the court repeatedly referenced an improper standard when ruling on his
    claims. Defendant emphasizes the court’s references to defendant’s failure to raise the issue in
    either of the three cases at any time before the end of trial. Defendant contends Illinois courts
    recognize the difficulty in resolving Strickland claims before the end of trial as the outcome has
    not been reached and it would be, therefore, impossible to decide the second Strickland prong.
    See People v. Washington, 
    2012 IL App (2d) 101287
    , ¶ 20, 
    970 N.E.2d 43
    .
    ¶ 108          As shown above, a Krankel inquiry is adequate when it is “sufficient to determine
    the factual basis of the claim.” Ayres, 
    2017 IL 120071
    , ¶ 11 (quoting Banks, 237 Ill. at 213). The
    trial court’s emphasis on defendant’s failure to assert concerns about counsel’s representation of
    him does not affect an adequacy-of-the-Krankel-inquiry determination when the process was
    sufficient to determine the factual basis of the defendant’s claims. Here, the Krankel inquiry was
    adequate as the court had determined the factual bases of defendant’s claims.
    ¶ 109                            C. Hearsay, Case No. 17-CF-107
    ¶ 110          Defendant next contends the trial court erroneously overruled counsel’s hearsay
    objection to Officer Maier’s testimony Ware approached him for “help” regarding defendant’s
    phone calls with Hamilton. Defendant contends the testimony was inadmissible to explain
    Officer Maier’s steps in the investigation as the court failed to assess the testimony to ensure it
    included no more than necessary to explain Officer Maier’s conduct and the statement revealed
    information that was unnecessary and prejudicial. Defendant acknowledges his claim is forfeited
    as he failed to raise the matter in a written posttrial motion. Defendant urges this court, however,
    to review the matter as plain error.
    - 28 -
    ¶ 111            At trial, the objection followed the State’s question to Officer Maier after the
    State confirmed Officer Maier had spoken to Ware about the recordings of the telephone
    conversations:
    “[THE STATE]. She had come to you regarding help for
    what was happening?
    A. Correct.
    [DEFENSE COUNSEL]: Objection.
    THE COURT: Hold on. What was the objection?
    [DEFENSE COUNSEL]: Hearsay regarding help.
    THE COURT: That’s not a hearsay statement. Overruled.”
    ¶ 112            The State maintains Officer Maier did not provide a statement by Ware.
    ¶ 113            Under the plain-error rule, a court of review may consider an otherwise forfeited
    argument under one of two scenarios:
    “(1) a clear or obvious error occurred and the evidence is so
    closely balanced that the error alone threatened to tip the scales of
    justice against the defendant, regardless of the seriousness of the
    error, or (2) a clear or obvious error occurred and that error is so
    serious that it affected the fairness of the defendant’s trial and
    challenged the integrity of the judicial process, regardless of the
    closeness of the evidence.” People v. Merriweather, 
    2022 IL App (4th) 210498
    , ¶ 25 (quoting People v. Sargent, 
    239 Ill. 2d 166
    ,
    189, 
    940 N.E.2d 1045
    , 1058 (2010)).
    To invoke the plain-error rule, defendant bears the burden of proving one of the above scenarios
    - 29 -
    applies. 
    Id.
     Our first task in plain-error analysis is to determine whether a clear or obvious error
    occurred at trial. People v. Sebby, 
    2017 IL 119445
    , ¶ 49, 
    89 N.E.3d 675
    .
    ¶ 114          Evidence is hearsay when it is “an out-of-court statement offered to prove the
    truth of the matter asserted.” People v. Olinger, 
    176 Ill. 2d 326
    , 357, 
    680 N.E.2d 321
    , 336
    (1997). A statement can be an oral or written assertion or nonverbal conduct of a person if the
    conduct was intended as an assertion. People v. Neal, 
    2020 IL App (4th) 170869
    , ¶ 80, 
    150 N.E.3d 984
    . Hearsay evidence “is generally inadmissible due to its lack of reliability unless it
    falls within an exception to the hearsay rule.” Olinger, 
    176 Ill. 2d at 357
    .
    ¶ 115          Defendant has not met his burden of establishing a clear error occurred. In his
    opening brief, defendant developed no argument establishing Officer Maier’s agreement Ware
    came to him for “help with what was happening” was a “statement” within the definition of
    hearsay. After the State asserted the challenged testimony was not a “statement,” defendant
    asserted the following in his reply brief: “Maier’s testimony that Jamie came to him for ‘help’
    was a statement because she either told Maier she needed help, or her nonverbal conduct
    indicated to him that she needed help. [(Record citation omitted.)] Maier then impermissibly
    repeated Jamie’s statement at trial, which made it an out-of-court statement.” Defendant further
    highlighted the question regarding “help” followed the State’s question of whether Officer Maier
    spoke to Ware about the recordings. The only citation to support the contention Officer Maier’s
    answer is a “statement” is a citation to the definition of hearsay. Officer Maier did not provide
    the words Ware used and did not testify Ware asked or used the word “help.” Defendant
    provides no legal support for the argument the admission of a reference to a situation, without
    revealing the words spoken, is clear error based on hearsay.
    ¶ 116          In sum, defendant has not established plain error. The procedural forfeiture stands
    - 30 -
    as a result.
    ¶ 117                                  III. CONCLUSION
    ¶ 118          For the reasons stated, we affirm the trial court’s judgment.
    ¶ 119          Affirmed.
    - 31 -