in Re Scott Rhodes and Tim Whitten ( 2018 )


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  •                                                                                             ACCEPTED
    03-17-00870-CV
    21639645
    THIRD COURT OF APPEALS
    AUSTIN, TEXAS
    1/5/2018 2:04 PM
    JEFFREY D. KYLE
    CLERK
    No. 03-17-00870-CV
    In the                                     FILED IN
    3rd COURT OF APPEALS
    Third Court of Appeals                         AUSTIN, TEXAS
    1/5/2018 2:04:48 PM
    Austin, Texas                            JEFFREY D. KYLE
    Clerk
    IN RE LEVIEN
    KENNETH LEVIEN, BARRY LEVIEN, AND PHILIP LEVIEN, TRUSTEES ON BEHALF OF THE
    TRUST ESTABLISHED UNDER ARTICLE SEVEN OF THE LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT OF
    ARNOLD LEVIEN,
    Real Parties in Interest/Plaintiffs,
    v.
    HARLAN LEVIEN AND STEPHEN LEVIEN,
    Real Parties in Interest/Defendants.
    On Petition for Writ of Mandamus from the
    53rd District Court of Travis County, Texas,
    Cause No. D-1-GN-17-001590, Hon. David Phillips, Judge Presiding
    REPLY IN SUPPORT OF PETITION FOR WRIT OF MANDAMUS
    Kevin J. Terrazas
    State Bar No. 24060708
    Carlos Soltero
    State Bar No. 00791702
    CLEVELAND | TERRAZAS PLLC
    4611 Bee Cave Rd, # 306B
    Austin, Texas 78746
    512-680-3257
    ATTORNEYS FOR SCOTT RHODES AND TIM
    WHITTEN
    ORAL ARGUMENT
    i REQUESTED
    TABLE OF CONTENTS
    TABLE OF CONTENTS ........................................................................................................... ii
    INDEX OF AUTHORITIES ...................................................................................................... iii
    INTRODUCTION..................................................................................................................... 1
    ARGUMENT .......................................................................................................................... 3
    I.        THE DISTRICT COURT CLEARLY ABUSED ITS DISCRETION BY ORDERING
    ATTORNEYS RHODES AND WHITTEN BECAUSE THE TESTIMONY SOUGHT IS
    PRIVILEGED............................................................................................................... 3
    A.        As Plaintiffs’ Response Shows, They Intend to Elicit Privileged Testimony. 3
    B.        Plaintiffs Failed to Show “Substantial Need” or That They Could Not
    Obtain the Information by Other Means Without Undue Hardship. ............ 9
    1. Plaintiffs Did Not and Could Not Show Substantial Need Because
    the Testimony Sought Would Not Be Relevant to Any of the
    Underlying Considerations This Court Has Already Delineated. .... 12
    2.     Plaintiffs Wholly Fail to Show That They Could Not Obtain the
    Substantial Equivalent of Any Relevant Testimony by Other Means
    Without ‘Undue Hardship.’ .............................................................. 15
    II.       PLAINTIFFS’ ARGUMENT THAT RELATORS COULD APPEAL ANY DISCLOSURE OF
    PRIVILEGED INFORMATION AFTER THE FACT DEFIES WELL-SETTLED LAW. ........ 16
    PRAYER .............................................................................................................................. 18
    CERTIFICATION .................................................................................................................. 19
    CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE ........................................................................................... 20
    CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE .................................................................................................. 21
    ii
    INDEX OF AUTHORITIES
    CASES ...................................................................................................................... PAGE(S)
    Borden, Inc. v. Valdez, 
    773 S.W.2d 718
    (Tex. App.—Corpus Christi 1989, no writ) ...... 11
    Cavin v. Abbott, No. 03-16-00395-CV, 2017 Tex. App. LEXIS 6511
    (Tex. App.—Austin July 14, 2017, no pet.) .................................................................... 6
    City of Keller v. Wilson, 
    168 S.W.3d 802
    (Tex. 2005) ..................................................... 14
    Echols v. Olivarez, 
    85 S.W.3d 475
    (Tex. App.—Austin 2002, no pet.) ........................... 14
    In re Baptist Hosp. of Se. Tex., 
    172 S.W.3d 136
    (Tex. App.—Beaumont 2005) ............ 4, 7
    In re Bexar Cnty. Crim. Dist. Atty’s Office, 
    224 S.W.3d 182
    (Tex. 2007) ................ passim
    In re Hays Cnty. Crim. Dist. Attorney’s Office, No. 03-10-00479-CV,
    2010 Tex. App. LEXIS 8088 (Tex. App.—Austin Oct. 1, 2010, no pet.) .................... 12
    In re Levien, 03-14-00822-CV, 2015 Tex. App. LEXIS 4391
    (Tex. App.—Austin Apr. 30, 2015) .......................................................................... 5, 16
    In re Nat'l Lloyds, No. 15-0591, 2017 Tex. LEXIS 522 (Tex. June 9, 2017) ................... 12
    Nat'l Union Fire Ins. Co. v. Valdez, 
    863 S.W.2d 458
    (Tex. 1993) ................................... 15
    Pressley v. Casar, No. 03-15-00368-CV, No. 03-15-00505-CV,
    2016 Tex. App. LEXIS 13651 (Tex. App.—Austin Dec. 23, 2016, pet. filed) .............. 6
    Tanox, Inc. v. Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer & Feld, L.L.P., 
    105 S.W.3d 244
      (Tex. App.—Houston [14th Dist.] 2003, pet. denied) .................................................... 9
    STATUTES/RULES ................................................................................................... PAGE(S)
    TEX. R. CIV. P. 176.6 ......................................................................................................... 18
    TEX. DISC. R. PROF. CONDUCT 1.05(a) ............................................................................. 10
    iii
    INTRODUCTION
    As Real Parties in Interest/Plaintiffs’ Response shows, they seek to elicit privileged
    testimony from two attorneys concerning their representation of clients and the
    communications that occurred during and in furtherance of that representation. Indeed,
    Plaintiffs make that clear on page 21 of their Response:
    As the attorneys responsible for preparation of the adult adoption pleadings
    which represented Stephen’s Texas residency to the trial court in 2012,
    Whitten[’s] and Rhodes[’s] testimony regarding the extent of their
    knowledge and/or investigation of the facts relevant to this issue is directly
    relevant to the jurisdiction issue as well as to the claims involving fraud upon
    the trial court in pursuit of the adult adoptions.
    Response at 21 (emphasis added).1
    This sought-after information—what Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten learned from
    their clients and/or investigated during their representation—is highly confidential and
    privileged attorney/client communications and core work product. Therefore, the trial
    testimony sought would clearly violate the Texas Rules and the Texas Supreme Court’s
    prohibition on eliciting privileged testimony.
    And even if Plaintiffs could in good-faith allege there may possibly be information
    that would fall outside the sphere of core work product, Plaintiffs made no attempt before
    the trial court and make no attempt in their Response to meet the Texas Supreme Court’s
    enumerated “heavy burden” to justify such testimony. Plaintiffs provide virtually no
    support for any substantial need for such testimony and did not even address the fact that
    1
    As discussed further below, the only other specific reference to any testimony sought is related
    to a portion of Attorney Whitten’s testimony that was objected to and sustained by agreement such
    that according to Plaintiffs, they could not elicit that testimony regardless.
    1
    they could get the same information from another source without undue hardship.
    Rather than address the relevant standard, Plaintiffs have resorted to vague, high-
    level generalities about why they would ideally like—but not that they need—such
    testimony. Indeed, the primary reason Plaintiffs articulate for demanding that these
    attorneys testify in trial is that Plaintiffs made the conscious decision to not videotape the
    prior deposition testimony of Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten. They contend that they
    “need” these attorneys live to testify at trial because allegedly the jury would not have the
    opportunity to observe the “witnesses[’] demeanor or consider the tone and inflection in
    their voices.” Response at 17. But that is not, and has never been a reason to allow parties
    to question attorneys about their work during a prior representation—the only information
    that Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten would have related to the underlying case. Their other
    reasons are similar, including the generic and bold statement that Plaintiffs “have an
    absolute right to present their case at trial in the manner which they and their counsel deem
    strategically appropriate,” and that somehow this Court granting reasonable and proper
    mandamus relief “would needlessly interfere with [Plaintiffs’] presentation of their case.”
    Response at 20.
    The fact of the matter is that Plaintiffs have not and cannot show that there is any
    need (much less substantial) for any of the testimony they seek to elicit from Attorneys
    Rhodes and Whitten and it is evident that Plaintiffs could get all of the requested
    information from other sources without undue hardship. Therefore, according to the Texas
    Supreme Court’s clear guidance, Plaintiffs have failed to meet their “heavy burden” and a
    writ of mandamus should issue.
    2
    ARGUMENT
    As Plaintiffs’ Response shows, the trial court clearly abused its discretion in
    ordering Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten to testify at trial because the only information
    Plaintiffs claim to seek from Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten would be privileged and
    Plaintiffs have wholly failed to even challenge that they cannot show that there is a
    substantial need for any testimony or that they could not obtain the substantial equivalent
    of the testimony by other means without undue hardship.
    I.     THE DISTRICT COURT CLEARLY ABUSED ITS DISCRETION BY ORDERING
    ATTORNEYS RHODES AND WHITTEN BECAUSE THE TESTIMONY SOUGHT IS
    PRIVILEGED.
    The district court clearly abused its discretion in ordering Attorneys Rhodes and
    Whitten to testify about their actions and communications during their representation of
    Defendants because, as the Response again shows, the only purpose for this testimony
    would be to try to elicit privileged communications in violation of the law.
    A.     As Plaintiffs’ Response Shows, They Intend to Elicit Privileged Testimony.
    As the Texas Supreme Court has held, all of the work performed in connection with
    a representation, including the decisions of what actions to take and the steps and research
    necessary to get there constitutes work product. In re Bexar Cnty. Crim. Dist. Atty’s Office,
    
    224 S.W.3d 182
    , 187 (Tex. 2007) (“all of the DA’s Office’s work in connection with the
    criminal proceeding against Crudup, and relevant to the decision to bring criminal charges
    against him, constitutes work product, namely ‘material prepared or mental impressions
    developed in anticipation of litigation or for trial’ or communications ‘made in anticipation
    of litigation or for trial . . . among a party’s representatives’ under Rule 192.5(a)”).
    3
    Here, the only information that is sought from Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten are
    the actions taken during their representation of Defendants and communications
    commensurate with that representation in the adult adoption proceeding, a litigation matter.
    The Court need look no further than Plaintiffs’ Response:
    Whitten[’s] and Rhodes[’s] testimony regarding the extent of their
    knowledge and/or investigation of the facts relevant to [the residency of
    Stephen Levien] is directly relevant to the jurisdiction issue as well as to the
    claims involving fraud upon the trial court in pursuit of the adult adoptions.
    Response at 21 (emphasis added). In other words, Plaintiffs seek to elicit from Attorneys
    Rhodes and Whitten: (1) the knowledge they learned from communications with their
    clients or investigation during the representation; and (2) the steps they took, information
    they found, and communications they had related to any investigation of Mr. Levien’s
    residency during the representation. That is the epitome of privileged information. See
    Bexar 
    Cnty., 224 S.W.3d at 187
    (“For purposes of his civil case, conversations made in the
    course of the criminal investigation, information learned during that investigation, and the
    DA’s decision to drop the case all constitute work product as defined above”). And any
    disclosure would potentially place them in a position to be subject to arguments that they
    would be violating their duties of confidentiality to their clients—a point Plaintiffs do not
    even address. See TEX. DISC. R. PROF. CONDUCT 1.05(a); see also In re Baptist Hosp. of
    Se. Tex., 
    172 S.W.3d 136
    , 145 (Tex. App.—Beaumont 2005) (orig. proceeding) (soliciting
    testimony from attorneys for the adverse party has a great potential to be subject to mischief
    and referred to it as “inappropriate under most circumstances”).
    Moreover, Plaintiffs’ previous repeated questioning of Attorneys Rhodes and
    4
    Whitten on privileged subjects, in an attempt to have them disclose work product and
    attorney-client communications shows that they intend to again focus on eliciting
    privileged information at trial. See, e.g., App. 2 at Exs. 7 & 8 (Declarations of Rhodes and
    Whitten); App. 2 at Ex. 1 (seeking all invoices, contracts, and any other document
    “evidencing the contractual relationship with Harlan Levien, Stephen Levien, Kenneth
    Ives, or Parvin Johnson, Jr. since January 2012 to present); App. 5 at Ex. 3 (Whitten Depo.)
    at 24:13-15, 26:4-5, 31:10-12, 30:7-10, 62:22-25, & 77:22-24; App. 6 at Ex. 3 (Rhodes
    Depo.) at 39:2-7, 41:7-9, 45:5-13, 56:22-23, & 64:2-5. This is a continued effort by
    Plaintiffs, who were previously rebuffed by this Court in their attempt to break the privilege
    related to the intent of the parties in pursuing the adoption. See In re Levien, 03-14-00822-
    CV, 2015 Tex. App. LEXIS 4391, *14 (Tex. App.—Austin Apr. 30, 2015) (orig. proc.).
    (“Accordingly, the intent of the parties to the adoption does not bear upon the adoption
    process, and for that reason, evidence establishing the Leviens’ purpose for pursuing the
    adult adoptions cannot establish a prima facie showing that the Leviens were contemplating
    the commission of a fraudulent adoption.”).
    Indeed, despite knowing that they would need to provide specific topics and
    testimony that they are seeking and justify why they have a substantial need for such
    testimony, at no point do Plaintiffs identify any specific testimony or question that they
    asked throughout the two depositions that was left unanswered or that was in any way
    related to the claims or defenses of the case. Instead, Plaintiffs resort to high level
    generalities and abstractions.
    Specifically, despite claiming that withdrawals or overruling of objections would
    5
    require Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten to answer questions, Plaintiffs fail to identify a
    single example of such—or why such testimony is necessary. See Response at 9. For
    example, Plaintiffs supposedly cite a number of pages that they suggest questions are
    wholly unanswered. But “[t]his is akin to the summary-judgment non-movant who, while
    having the burden, merely points to a voluminous record, assures the court that a fact issue
    is in there somewhere, and leaves it to the court to figure out why or how—a practice long
    deemed insufficient to defeat summary judgment.” Cavin v. Abbott, No. 03-16-00395-CV,
    2017 Tex. App. LEXIS 6511, at *46 (Tex. App.—Austin July 14, 2017, no pet.) (citing
    Pressley v. Casar, No. 03-15-00368-CV, No. 03-15-00505-CV, 2016 Tex. App. LEXIS
    13651, at *17-18 (Tex. App.—Austin Dec. 23, 2016, pet. filed) (mem. op.)). And a cursory
    look at those pages contradict Plaintiffs’ assertions. For instance, Plaintiffs cite to “MR
    1:37” but Mr. Whitten answered the exact question asked on the next page—“I don’t
    remember.”    Record Tab 1 at Ex. 3 (“Whitten Depo.”) at 22:15.           The same thing
    happened—Whitten fully answered the questions at Plaintiffs’ citations of “MR 1: . . . 43,
    . . . 63 . . . 65 [which was answered at Whitten Depo. 51:10-23], . . . 73, 75-76 [answered
    at Whitten Depo. 60:3-13], . . . 75-76 [answered at Whitten Depo. 67:1-4, 69:1-6], 79
    [same], 82-83. Others, such as on pages “MR 1: . . . 46” had instructions that were
    sustained by the Travis County District Court. App.7 at 3 (sustaining objection to Whitten
    Depo. 30:7-10). And others, such as “MR 1: . . . 62 . . . 72” were challenges that were
    withdrawn. See App.8 at 2-3 (Plaintiffs withdrawing challenge to privilege instruction for
    Whitten Depo. 46:24, 56:12, 56:18). Likewise, for the Rhodes deposition, there is not a
    single non-privileged question that was not answered. See Response at 9 (citing “MR
    6
    2:141, 145, 147, 153, 154, 183 [the objections were sustained by the Travis County Court,
    Supp.Record.15 at 1], 191 [same]). Even if there was a question that was not answered,
    Plaintiffs have numerous means of obtaining such information from other sources (or from
    such things as a deposition by written questions) and have not provided any reason why
    any of the information would be relevant or necessary. See In re Baptist 
    Hosps., 172 S.W.3d at 145
    (“Rule 192.4 authorizes the court to limit discovery methods permitted by
    the rules if the discovery is obtainable from some other source that is more convenient, less
    burdensome, or less expensive, or if the burden or expense of the proposed discovery
    outweighs its likely benefit.”).
    The only specific testimony (other than the clear work product and attorney-client
    communications discussed above) to which Plaintiffs’ Response refers is an assertion that
    later discovery showed a conflict between Attorney Whitten’s deposition testimony and
    that of Defendant Kenneth Ives. Response at 18-19. Plaintiffs’ contention is flawed for
    several reasons: waiver, that they already have evidence of the alleged “conflict”, and that
    it bears no relation to the dispute. First, Plaintiffs neglect to tell the Court that the cited
    testimony from Attorney Whitten was objected to and any challenge to such objection has
    been waived by agreement, see App.8 at 3 (Plaintiffs did not challenge objection to
    Whitten Depo. 80:10 and agreed that “any form or privilege objections to the December
    15, 2016 depositions of Scott Rhodes and Tim Whitten that have not been . . . challenged
    and ruled on by the Travis County District Court . . . will not be challenged in any current
    or future proceeding in any court or other tribunal of any jurisdiction”)—meaning
    according to Plaintiffs that they could not use that testimony regardless, see Response at
    7
    14. Second, if Plaintiffs seek to show that there is a “conflict” or “disparity” between what
    Attorney Whitten said at his deposition and the clients said at their deposition, they already
    have that information, and thus have no “need” much less a “substantial need” on that
    ground. Further, contrary to Plaintiffs’ assertions, a jury at the end of the case would not
    resolve conflicts as to whether the attorney-client privilege applied. Instead, that is a
    judicial determination that Plaintiffs do not contest can be made based on documents and
    depositions testimony.    See, e.g., App.7 (Travis County Court determining privilege
    objections for deposition testimony); App.4 at Ex. 10 (Bastrop County Court determining
    privilege objections for documents). Finally, as provided in Relator’s petition (and left
    unaddressed by Plaintiffs), any subjective belief Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten have as to
    an attorney-client relationship is irrelevant. See Tanox, Inc. v. Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer
    & Feld, L.L.P., 
    105 S.W.3d 244
    , 254 (Tex. App.—Houston [14th Dist.] 2003, pet. denied).
    Rather than address the merits of the Texas Supreme Court’s decision in Bexar
    County, Plaintiffs simply assert that Relators have interpreted Bexar County too broadly
    and suggest that a general trial subpoena can never be quashed because the trial court can
    determine whether testimony sought to be elicited would be privileged such that all
    witnesses are protected. But Bexar County involved remarkably similar arguments and
    circumstances as in the case at bar—a general trial subpoena issued after a deposition (in
    that case by written questions) along with a subpoena duces 
    tecum. 224 S.W.3d at 184
    .
    The fact that it was a general trial subpoena was of no moment to the Texas Supreme
    Court—“all of the DA’s Office’s work in connection with the criminal proceeding against
    Crudup, and relevant to the decision to bring criminal charges against him, constitutes work
    8
    product, namely ‘material prepared or mental impressions developed in anticipation of
    litigation or for trial’ or communications ‘made in anticipation of litigation or for trial . . .
    among a party’s representatives’ under Rule 
    192.5(a).” 224 S.W.3d at 187
    (emphasis
    added). In Bexar County, the trial subpoena also did not explicitly order the disclosure of
    privileged information—the Court was concerned that the subpoena would require trial
    testimony by attorneys whose only involvement with the matter was based on their
    representation, which would invariably involve privileged communications and work
    product. 
    Id. That is
    exactly the case here; Plaintiffs have provided in their brief that the
    only issue for which they seek testimony potentially relevant to their claims—the residency
    of Stephen Levien—would involve work product and attorney/client communications. See
    Response at 21. Like in Bexar County, Plaintiffs have not shown any relevance to general
    matters that might be fair game and have not identified any specific examples of non-
    privileged information they would need. 
    See 224 S.W.3d at 187
    . The fact of the matter is
    that all of the information Plaintiffs actually seek at trial for Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten
    is privileged and could only have been learned by Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten through
    attorney-client communications or work product during the representation. App. 2 at Exs.
    7 & 8.      Therefore, because Plaintiffs would be seeking to elicit attorney-client
    communications and core work product, mandamus should issue.
    B.     Plaintiffs Failed to Show “Substantial Need” or That They Could Not
    Obtain the Information by Other Means Without Undue Hardship.
    Plaintiffs argue that by relying on the Texas Supreme Court’s decision in Bexar
    County, that Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten are somehow improperly shifting “the burden
    9
    of securing a protective order from the Relators to the Trustees.” Response at 11. To the
    contrary, it is Plaintiffs’ own Response that requires the shifting of burdens—by seeking
    work product (even assuming it would be non-core work product) the Texas Supreme Court
    has said that the proponent of the testimony “bears a heavy burden: he must show that he
    ‘has substantial need’ for the testimony in the preparation of his case and that he ‘is unable
    without undue hardship to obtain the substantial equivalent of the material by other
    
    means.’” 224 S.W.3d at 188
    .
    Relying on Borden, Inc. v. Valdez, 
    773 S.W.2d 718
    (Tex. App.—Corpus Christi
    1989, no writ), Plaintiffs argue that the trial testimony cannot be foreclosed because there
    is the potential that some matters during the examination would not be privileged.
    Response at 12. But Borden involved a deposition and there was no evidence of what
    information would be sought prior to that deposition being taken: “[t]he problem, however,
    is that no questions have been asked and we may only speculate as to the substance of what
    would be revealed should King be deposed. This, we cannot do.” 
    Borden, 773 S.W.2d at 720-21
    . Here, depositions have already been taken and it is very evident that Plaintiffs
    repeatedly sought privileged information and will seek that again during trial.           See
    Response at 21; App. 2 at Exs. 7 & 8; App. 2 at Ex. 1; App. 5 at Ex. 3 at 24:13-15, 26:4-5,
    31:10-12, 30:7-10, 62:22-25, & 77:22-24; App. 6 at Ex. 3 at 39:2-7, 41:7-9, 45:5-13, 56:22-
    23, & 64:2-5. Therefore, unlike Borden, the fact that Plaintiffs have expressly stated they
    will be seeking privileged information (including in their Response) means that they must
    show substantial need and inability to obtain the information from other sources without
    undue hardship.
    10
    Plaintiffs also assert that Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten “deserve no special
    treatment under the circumstances simply because they are lawyers to which attorney client
    and work product privileges may apply.” Response at 11. But this Court, in a related
    context, has disagreed. In In re Hays County Criminal Dist. Attorney’s Office—a case
    cited by Plaintiffs—this Court distinguished attorneys testifying from that of a police
    officer that was subpoenaed to testify at a hearing. No. 03-10-00479-CV, 2010 Tex. App.
    LEXIS 8088, at *7 n3 (Tex. App.—Austin Oct. 1, 2010, no pet.) (orig. proc.) (mem. op.).
    This Court explained that a police officer is treated differently from attorneys representing
    their clients, the latter of which would be controlled by the Texas Supreme Court’s standard
    laid out in Bexar County. 
    Id. In other
    words, attorneys are treated differently when they
    are to testify about the actions taken and communications made during their
    representation—exactly what Plaintiffs have shown they seek to elicit here. See Response
    at 21.
    Because Plaintiffs’ seek to elicit information that would, at a minimum, require the
    disclosure of privileged non-core work product, they were required to show substantial
    need and inability to obtain the substantial equivalent of that information from another
    source without undue burden. See Bexar 
    Cnty., 224 S.W.3d at 188
    ; accord In re Nat’l
    Lloyds, No. 15-0591, 2017 Tex. LEXIS 522, *20 (Tex. June 9, 2017) (orig. proceeding).
    Plaintiffs have not (and cannot) done so.
    11
    1.     Plaintiffs Did Not and Could Not Show Substantial Need Because
    the Testimony Sought Would Not Be Relevant to Any of the
    Underlying Considerations This Court Has Already Delineated.
    The district court clearly abused its discretion in ordering Attorneys Rhodes and
    Whitten to testify because, even assuming Plaintiffs sought non-core work product,
    Plaintiffs did not show that there was a substantial need for the testimony.
    Plaintiffs do not challenge that through their subpoenas and in their depositions,
    Plaintiffs have asked for information related only to the representation by Attorneys
    Rhodes and Whitten. See App. 2 at Exs. 7 & 8; 
    id. at Exs.
    1 & 2; App. 5 at Ex. 3 (Whitten
    Depo.) at 24:13-15, 26:4-5, 31:10-12, 30:7-10, 62:22-25, & 77:22-24; App. 6 at Ex. 3
    (Rhodes Depo.) at 39:2-7, 41:7-9, 45:5-13, 56:22-23, & 64:2-5. Now in their Response,
    they explain that they seek “the extent of their knowledge and/or investigation of the facts
    relevant to” the residency of Stephen Levien. Response at 21. Like in Bexar County,
    “[Plaintiffs] continued to demonstrate [their] intention to interrogate [Rhodes and Whitten]
    about case-specific details. Such testimony would unquestionably require the disclosure
    of [attorney] work product, which, at a minimum, places the burden on [Plaintiffs] to show
    a ‘substantial need’ for the testimony and the inability to obtain its substantial equivalent
    by other means without ‘undue 
    hardship.’” 224 S.W.3d at 188
    .
    Plaintiffs assert that they will be precluded from “making a majority of those
    specific inquiries again at trial.” Response at 14. But that then begs the question—why
    isn’t the previous redacted billing records, engagement agreement, and deposition
    testimony sufficient such that there is still a substantial need for additional questions
    regarding Attorneys Rhodes’s and Whitten’s representation?
    12
    Plaintiffs assert that because they made the conscious decision to not videotape the
    depositions, live testimony is essential to permit the jury to assess Attorneys Rhodes and
    Whitten’s credibility. Response at 17-18. But Plaintiffs’ decision to avoid videotaping the
    depositions (full well knowing, as with any witness, that Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten
    may not be available for trial—particularly more than a year after their depositions) is not
    a justification for live testimony. As provided in the rules, written deposition is fully
    competent evidence for trial. TEX. R. CIV. P. 206.3(b). Nor do Plaintiffs cite to any case
    that overrules a motion to quash or for protection of a trial subpoena simply because a prior
    deposition was not videotaped. Instead, Plaintiffs cite to such cases as City of Keller v.
    Wilson, 
    168 S.W.3d 802
    , 819 (Tex. 2005) and Echols v. Olivarez, 
    85 S.W.3d 475
    , 477
    (Tex. App.—Austin 2002, no pet.), neither of which discusses this issue. Indeed, City of
    Keller (a landmark case on the legal sufficiency standard) discussed solely that juries are
    the sole judges of 
    credibility. 168 S.W.3d at 819
    . And Echols stands for the well-settled
    principle that a trial court is in a better position to judge the evidence as a whole than an
    appellate 
    court. 85 S.W.3d at 477
    . Neither states or suggests that live testimony is “vital .
    . . when determining credibility,” Response at 18, or that a judge or jury cannot judge the
    credibility of a witness based on written deposition testimony (assuming that any testimony
    would even be relevant to the issues at hand, which has not been shown here).
    Plaintiffs also cite to National Union Fire Insurance Co. v. Valdez, 
    863 S.W.2d 458
    ,
    461 (Tex. 1993) for the proposition that “the proper presentation of a client’s case demands
    that an attorney be able to plan his or her strategy without undue and needless interference.”
    Response at 20. Importantly, the very next sentence in the Texas Supreme Court’s opinion
    13
    proves Relators’ point—“Based on this doctrine, federal courts have recognized that an
    attorney’s selection and ordering of documents in anticipation of litigation is protected
    work product, even where the individual documents are not privileged.” 
    Valdez, 863 S.W.2d at 461
    . In short, Valdez was not authorizing the live testimony of an attorney at
    trial, it was protecting the disclosure of an attorney’s work product contained in a litigation
    file.   Plaintiffs here are seeking the mental processes, impressions, and client
    communications from two attorneys. See Response at 21. As Valdez supports, that
    information is privileged.
    Plaintiffs further do not address the Texas Supreme Court’s determination in Bexar
    County that while live testimony may be preferred, it is hardly required. “To be sure,
    granting Crudup access to live DA testimony might improve his chances in court, but
    improving a civil litigant’s odds of winning is not 
    enough.” 224 S.W.3d at 188
    ; see also
    
    id. at 189
    (“Understandably, Crudup desires live testimony to fortify his case, but Rule
    192.5(b)(2) is not nearly so permissive.”). In Bexar County, the Court understood that live
    testimony might be helpful and that some information would not be privileged (including
    in that case the already produced prosecution file), but still precluded the live testimony
    because there was not a showing of substantial need. Plaintiffs’ conscious decision to not
    videotape two depositions of attorneys, or the possibility that “[t]here may be significant
    differences between how a witness reacts to a question during the more private setting of a
    deposition as opposed to what they exhibit in a courtroom before a jury,” Response at 19,
    has never been shown to meet the substantial need prong.
    14
    Plaintiffs also have not provided any specific non-privileged information they
    would be seeking that would be relevant to the issues in the underlying case. Levien, 2015
    Tex. App. LEXIS 4391 at *13 (“the only considerations [related to an adult adoption] seem
    to be whether the petitioner resides in this State, whether the petition was filed in an
    appropriate district court or statutory county court, whether the petitioner’s spouse joined
    the petition, whether the adult to be adopted consented in writing, and whether the
    petitioner and the adult to be adopted were present at the hearing.” (internal citations and
    quotation marks omitted) (emphasis added)). Plaintiffs cannot simply state that relevant
    information is needed without even providing what specifically that information is. Nor
    does a conclusory assertion that Plaintiffs would be “severely prejudice[d]” in their ability
    to present all relevant evidence show substantial need. See Response at 22.
    Because Plaintiffs did not even attempt to show that any non-privileged testimony
    sought from Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten had any relation to any of the only
    considerations this Court has already determined to be relevant to the underlying suit, there
    is no need (much less a substantial need) for the trial testimony and the district court clearly
    abused its discretion in ordering the testimony without a showing of substantial need.
    2.     Plaintiffs Wholly Fail to Show That They Could Not Obtain the
    Substantial Equivalent of Any Relevant Testimony by Other
    Means Without ‘Undue Hardship.’
    Plaintiffs wholly fail to even address Bexar County’s second requirement to show
    that they could not obtain all of the information necessary through other means without
    undue hardship. In doing so, they do not contest that Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten have
    turned over all non-privileged documents in their possession related to their engagement
    15
    with the Defendants, including the redacted fee statements—the “substantial equivalent of
    testimony.” Bexar 
    Cnty., 224 S.W.3d at 188
    ; see also App. 3 at 6-7; App. 4 at Ex. 9
    (redacted invoices). Nor do Plaintiffs contest that Defendants will be at trial and could
    testify about all of the issues and information Plaintiffs seek to elicit. See App. 3 at 6-7;
    App. 9 (Defendants’ Resp. to Motion for Protection). There is no information that
    Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten have that is not already available to Plaintiffs.
    With regard to any allegedly relevant, non-privileged testimony, there is no question
    that Plaintiffs could elicit that information from Defendants, from documents already
    produced, or from the prior deposition testimony. Therefore, Plaintiffs have failed to meet
    their “heavy burden” and the district court clearly abused its discretion in ordering
    Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten to testify live at trial in Bastrop.
    II.    PLAINTIFFS’ ARGUMENT THAT RELATORS COULD APPEAL ANY DISCLOSURE OF
    PRIVILEGED INFORMATION AFTER THE FACT DEFIES WELL-SETTLED LAW.
    Plaintiffs further assert that this mandamus proceeding is wholly unfounded because
    the trial court “is more than capable of addressing any and all objections and/or claims of
    privilege as they arise during trial,” Response at 6, and Attorneys Rhodes and Whitten
    could challenge any perceived error on appeal, 
    id. at 16-17.
    But the Texas Supreme Court
    has “repeatedly held that appeal is inadequate when a court erroneously orders disclosure
    of privileged information.” Bexar 
    Cnty., 224 S.W.3d at 185
    . If Attorneys Rhodes and
    Whitten are ordered to disclose privileged (or confidential) materials at trial, the proverbial
    cat will be out of the bag and cannot go back in. There is no way to rectify such a disclosure
    on appeal. 
    Id. 16 Plaintiffs
    also suggest that the mandamus is moot because the Bastrop Court issued
    an order compelling Attorneys Rhodes’s and Whitten’s trial testimony “Subject to the third
    party witness’s right to file a Motion for Protective Order” and Relators have not sought
    protection in the Bastrop Court. App.3 at Exs. 4 & 5; see Response at 3-4. Of course, the
    trial subpoenas provide the same requirement—subject to a motion for protection, Relators
    would have to comply with the subpoenas. TEX. R. CIV. P. 176.6(a) & (e).2 And, in fact,
    the Bastrop County Court specifically stated at a hearing that it understood the plain
    language of the Texas rules and agreed that any motion for protection could be brought in
    Travis County (as the location where the witnesses were found) and that it would defer to
    the ruling of the Travis County court.3 Therefore, there is a valid controversy that is ripe
    for this Court to decide.
    2
    (a) Compliance required. Except as provided in this subdivision, a person served
    with a subpoena must comply with the command stated therein unless discharged
    by the court or by the party summoning such witness. . . .
    ***
    (e) Protective Orders. A person commanded to appear at a deposition, hearing, or
    trial, . . . may move for a protective order under Rule 192.6(b)—before the time
    specified for compliance—either in the court in which the action is pending or in a
    district court in the county where the subpoena was served. . . . A person need not
    comply with the part of a subpoena from which protection is sought under this
    paragraph unless ordered to do so by the court.”).
    TEX. R. CIV. P. 176.6(a) & (e).
    3
    Relators are diligently seeking a copy of the transcript of this hearing but the court reporter for
    the Bastrop hearing has been on vacation. Relators have asked Plaintiffs to provide that transcript,
    but Plaintiffs have yet to provide such to Relators. Relators will supplement the record once that
    transcript is received.
    17
    PRAYER
    For these reasons and those provided in their Petition, Attorneys Scott Rhodes and
    Tim Whitten respectfully request that the Court issue a writ of mandamus directing the
    district court to reverse its December 20, 2017 order and for all other relief to which they
    may be entitled.
    18
    Respectfully submitted,
    CLEVELAND | TERRAZAS PLLC
    4611 Bee Cave Road, Suite 306B
    Austin, Texas 78746
    512-689-8698
    By: /s/ Kevin J. Terrazas
    Kevin J. Terrazas
    State Bar No. 24060708
    kterrazas@clevelandterrazas.com
    Carlos Soltero
    State Bar No. 00791702
    csoltero@clevelandterrazas.com
    ATTORNEYS FOR SCOTT RHODES
    AND TIM WHITTEN
    CERTIFICATION
    I certify that I have reviewed this reply and concluded that every factual statement
    in the reply is supported by competent evidence included in the appendix or record except
    where noted.
    /s/ Kevin J. Terrazas
    Kevin J. Terrazas
    19
    CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE
    I certify that this document was produced on a computer using Microsoft Word and
    contains 5021 words, as determined by the computer software’s word-count function,
    excluding the sections of the document listed in Texas Rule of Appellate Procedure
    9.4(i)(1).
    /s/ Kevin J. Terrazas
    Kevin J. Terrazas
    20
    CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
    As required by Texas Rules of Appellate Procedure 6.3 and 9.5(b), (d), and (e), I
    certify that I have served this Petition for Writ of Mandamus, Appendix, and Record on all
    parties listed below on this 5th day of January, 2018, via electronic filing system:
    Ellen A. Yarrell
    ellen@eayatty.com
    Kathleen D. Witkovski
    kathleen@eayatty.com
    ELLEN A. YARRELL, P.C.
    50 Briar Hollow Lane, Suite 425W
    Houston, Texas 77027
    Telephone: (713) 621-3332
    Facsimile: (713) 621-3669
    ATTORNEYS FOR REAL PARTIES IN INTEREST/PLAINTIFFS
    John Kinchen
    Luis A. Fabrega
    HUGHES ARRELL KINCHEN LLP
    1221 McKinney, Suite 3150
    Houston, Texas 77010
    ATTORNEYS FOR REAL PARTIES IN INTEREST/DEFENDANTS
    /s/ Kevin J. Terrazas
    Kevin J. Terrazas
    21