State v. Robert Daris Spencer ( 2022 )


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    2022 WI 56
    SUPREME COURT         OF   WISCONSIN
    CASE NO.:              2018AP942-CR
    COMPLETE TITLE:        State of Wisconsin,
    Plaintiff-Respondent-Cross Petitioner,
    v.
    Robert Daris Spencer,
    Defendant-Appellant-Petitioner.
    REVIEW OF DECISION OF THE COURT OF APPEALS
    Reported at 
    397 Wis. 2d 241
    , 
    959 Wis. 2d 241
    (2021 – unpublished)
    OPINION FILED:         July 6, 2022
    SUBMITTED ON BRIEFS:
    ORAL ARGUMENT:         March 2, 2022
    SOURCE OF APPEAL:
    COURT:              Circuit
    COUNTY:             Milwaukee
    JUDGE:              Stephanie Rothstein
    JUSTICES:
    REBECCA GRASSL BRADLEY, J., delivered the majority opinion of
    the Court, in which ZIEGLER, C.J., ROGGENSACK, and HAGEDORN,
    JJ., joined. ANN WALSH BRADLEY, J., filed a dissenting opinion,
    in which DALLET and KAROFSKY, JJ., joined. DALLET, J., filed a
    dissenting opinion, in which KAROFSKY, J., joined.
    NOT PARTICIPATING:
    ATTORNEYS:
    For the defendant-appellant-petitioner, there were briefs
    filed by John J. Grau and Grau Law Office, Waukesha. There was
    an oral argument by John J. Grau.
    For the plaintiff-respondent-cross petitioner, there were
    briefs filed by Kara L. Janson, assistant attorney general, with
    whom on the briefs was Joshua L. Kaul, attorney general. There
    was an oral argument by Kara L. Janson.
    
    2022 WI 56
    NOTICE
    This opinion is subject to further
    editing and modification.   The final
    version will appear in the bound
    volume of the official reports.
    No.       2018AP942-CR
    (L.C. No.    2014CF5088)
    STATE OF WISCONSIN                           :             IN SUPREME COURT
    State of Wisconsin,
    Plaintiff-Respondent-Cross                                 FILED
    Petitioner,
    JUL 6, 2022
    v.
    Sheila T. Reiff
    Robert Daris Spencer,                                           Clerk of Supreme Court
    Defendant-Appellant-Petitioner.
    REBECCA GRASSL BRADLEY, J., delivered the majority opinion of
    the Court, in which ZIEGLER, C.J., ROGGENSACK, and HAGEDORN,
    JJ., joined. ANN WALSH BRADLEY, J., filed a dissenting opinion,
    in which DALLET and KAROFSKY, JJ., joined. DALLET, J., filed a
    dissenting opinion, in which KAROFSKY, J., joined.
    REVIEW of a decision of the Court of Appeals.                   Affirmed in
    part, reversed in part.
    ¶1     REBECCA GRASSL BRADLEY, J.           This is a review of an
    unpublished decision of the court of appeals1 affirming in part
    and   reversing      in    part   the   circuit     court's2       denial      of    a
    1State v. Spencer, No. 2018AP942-CR, unpublished slip op.
    (Wis. Ct. App. Mar. 9, 2021).
    2The Honorable Stephanie            Rothstein,         Milwaukee        County
    Circuit Court, presided.
    No.     2018AP942-CR
    postconviction motion.              Following a jury trial, Robert Daris
    Spencer was convicted of one count of felony murder and one
    count of felon in possession of a firearm.                            After the close of
    evidence——but         before     deliberations——the            circuit       court      met    in
    chambers    with       a    juror   who    had        become    ill,      without      counsel
    present.        Upon       determining     the       juror     would     not     be    able    to
    continue serving, the judge dismissed the juror for cause.
    ¶2    Spencer filed a postconviction motion asserting the
    judge's    ex    parte      contact    with         the    juror     violated      his     Sixth
    Amendment       right       to   counsel        and       claiming     his       counsel      was
    ineffective for failing to object to hearsay testimony.                                       The
    circuit court denied the motion without an evidentiary hearing.
    Spencer    appealed,         raising      due       process     and      equal     protection
    challenges to the juror's dismissal in addition to the Sixth
    Amendment       and    ineffective        assistance         claims.         The      court   of
    appeals affirmed the denial of his motion, concluding Spencer
    forfeited his due process and equal protection claims and any
    error implicating the Sixth Amendment was harmless, but reversed
    and   remanded        on   the   ground    that       Spencer      was    entitled       to    an
    evidentiary hearing on the ineffective assistance claim.
    ¶3    Before this court, Spencer argues the judge's ex parte
    meeting with the juror violated his Sixth Amendment right to
    counsel, the judge's dismissal of the juror violated his equal
    protection and due process rights and constituted an erroneous
    exercise of discretion, and he was entitled to an evidentiary
    hearing on his claim that counsel's failure to object to hearsay
    testimony constituted ineffective assistance of counsel.                                      The
    2
    No.    2018AP942-CR
    State         cross-petitioned        on     the       evidentiary       hearing       decision,
    arguing         Sholar3       does   not     mandate        a     hearing      if    the    record
    conclusively shows the defendant is not entitled to relief.
    ¶4     We hold the judge's meeting with the ill juror was not
    a    critical         stage    of    the   proceedings            at   which    the    right    to
    counsel        attached,       and    even    if       there      were   an    error,      it   was
    harmless.         Accordingly, we affirm the court of appeals on this
    issue.4        We reverse the court of appeals' decision to reverse the
    circuit court's denial of an evidentiary hearing.                                If the record
    as    a       whole    conclusively        demonstrates            the   defendant         is   not
    entitled to relief, an evidentiary hearing is not mandatory.
    State
    3            v.     Sholar,      
    2018 WI 53
    ,    
    381 Wis. 2d 560
    ,          
    912 N.W.2d 89
    .
    Before the court of appeals, in addition to his Sixth
    4
    Amendment and ineffective assistance claims, Spencer also
    alleged the circuit court erroneously exercised its discretion
    by dismissing the juror over Spencer's objection, in violation
    of his Fourteenth Amendment right to due process and equal
    protection.    The court of appeals determined Spencer forfeited
    his claims relating to the dismissal of the juror because he
    "failed to raise them below, either by objecting at the time of
    trial or by addressing them in his postconviction motion."
    Spencer, No. 2018AP942–CR, at ¶¶11–12.     We agree and conclude
    Spencer forfeited his claims relating to the dismissal of the
    juror. See State v. Caban, 
    210 Wis. 2d 597
    , 604, 
    563 N.W.2d 501
    (1997) ("The general rule is that issues not presented to the
    circuit court will not be considered for the first time on
    appeal. . . . [E]ven the claim of a constitutional right will
    be deemed waived unless timely raised in the circuit court.")
    (citations omitted).      At trial, defense counsel moved for a
    mistrial   and    renewed   a  Swain  objection,  but  Spencer's
    postconviction motion neither mentioned the Swain objection nor
    argued the juror's dismissal was an erroneous exercise of
    discretion or a violation of Spencer's due process or equal
    protection rights. See Swain v. Alabama, 
    380 U.S. 202
     (1965).
    3
    No.    2018AP942-CR
    See   State    v.    Ruffin,     
    2022 WI 34
    ,   ¶3,   __    Wis. 2d __,        
    974 N.W.2d 432
    .        The circuit court properly exercised its discretion
    in denying an evidentiary hearing under this standard and the
    court of appeals erred in reversing that decision.
    I.     BACKGROUND
    A.     The Incident and the Trial
    ¶5      The State charged Spencer with one count of felony
    murder and one count of possession of a firearm by a felon for
    his involvement in an armed robbery resulting in the death of
    his accomplice, T.M.          On the night of the crime, police officers
    responded to reports of a shooting in Milwaukee, where they
    found the victim lying face down and observed a number of bullet
    holes   and    shell       casings,   later      determined     to     be    from   two
    different guns.         The exchange of gunfire on the night of the
    incident was confirmed by neighbors, ShotSpotter, and officers
    at the scene, and forensic evidence indicated there were two
    shooters.
    ¶6      At trial, the State's theory was that Spencer had a
    debt to settle with R.S., a friend of Spencer and T.M.                              The
    State contended that Spencer and T.M. approached R.S. as he
    stood outside a residence, and Spencer, armed with a firearm,
    robbed R.S. by grabbing him and "go[ing] through his pockets,
    tak[ing] money, tak[ing] his cell phone."                  As R.S. broke away
    and began running, the State asserted Spencer shot at R.S. as "a
    second person with a firearm" located "right in front of the
    residence     or    out,    or   inside    the    residence     shooting       from   a
    4
    No.    2018AP942-CR
    window" began to return fire "to protect [R.S.]."                          As a result
    of this exchange of gunfire, T.M. was shot and killed.
    ¶7     The    State    relied     on       witness   testimony         from    Lerone
    Towns, a tow truck driver who testified he received a call for a
    tow that night from a Mr. Green.                   He testified that when he
    reached    the     vehicle     pickup          location,     he      encountered       an
    individual,      later   identified        as    R.S.,     waiting    in    a     vehicle
    behind the one to be towed.           R.S. arranged for the vehicle to be
    towed to a house on the corner of 23rd and Townsend.                                 Upon
    arriving at the drop-off location, Towns testified he spoke with
    R.S. about writing his receipt and entering his information into
    the company system.        According to Towns, R.S. said he had to get
    the money for the payment, and "went straight to the back door,"
    where he stood "for some amount of time."                         While Towns was
    taking down information about the vehicle, he said he "turned
    around, heard somewhat of a commotion at the back door," and saw
    "two gentlemen standing in front of [R.S.]" with their backs
    turned toward Towns.           He did not see their faces, but stated
    "one of the individuals was lighter skinned than the other one"
    and they both appeared to be males.                      He testified that "the
    lighter complected gentleman" pulled out a handgun and proceeded
    to "reach into [R.S.'s] pockets," and "proceeded to grab [R.S.]
    by the back of his shirt and drug him across the street, across
    Townsend   in    front    of   the   residence      on     23rd   Street."          After
    "between 20 seconds to a full minute," Towns testified "there
    was nothing but gunfire after that" but he "did not see anyone
    shooting."      He saw R.S. run past him, and testified the gunfire
    5
    No.   2018AP942-CR
    stopped "once [R.S.] got pretty much to the alley."                        Towns said
    he then left——with the vehicle still attached to his truck——and
    received a call en route from R.S. to drop the vehicle off at a
    different       location,    where       R.S.    arrived     with    the   individual
    identified as Mr. Green to pick it up.
    ¶8       In addition to Towns' testimony, the jury heard from
    R.S., who said he knew T.M. and Spencer——identified as "D or D-
    Dog."       R.S. testified he and Spencer "were involved in business
    together," and he owed Spencer $5,000.                     R.S. testified that he
    heard Spencer was looking for him because he had not paid this
    debt.5       R.S. also identified Mr. Green as his friend, Errion
    Green-Brown.         R.S. said he lived at the residence where the
    incident occurred, along with Green-Brown and another individual
    he identified as Danny McKinney.                  R.S. testified that McKinney
    was present "in the upper unit of the residence" at the time the
    tow truck arrived.
    ¶9       R.S. confirmed he was robbed by two individuals, T.M.
    and     a    "lighter    complected"        individual        whom    he    "couldn't
    recognize."         R.S. noted the second individual had a firearm and
    asked       R.S.,   "Where   is    the    money    at?"       R.S.    testified    the
    individuals then "[w]ent in [his] pockets," took a cell phone
    and a "couple dollars," "snatched [him] up" by his shirt, and
    dragged      him    across   the   street       toward   a   gold    mini-van.     The
    5 Although initially R.S. agreed he told the detective he
    "never paid that debt," on cross-examination he confirmed he
    "had already paid Mr. Spencer $3,000." R.S. acknowledged later
    that "[t]he amount of the debt wasn't the same in each of the
    interviews" with the detectives.
    6
    No.     2018AP942-CR
    investigation revealed Spencer's fingerprints on the van, and a
    traffic citation and receipt in Spencer's name were found inside
    the van.    Forensic evidence demonstrated one of the shooters
    shot from the residence and the other shooter was near the gold
    mini-van, in the area where T.M.'s body had been found.
    ¶10    During   his    testimony,      R.S.     acknowledged      he    had
    identified Spencer as the second individual to the detectives
    during three separate interviews.          Additionally, R.S. identified
    Spencer as the second individual to others——even before he told
    the detectives.      He told "one of [his] girlfriends it was a
    person by the name of Spencer, who may be involved but not
    actually with a gun."        Two of T.M.'s sisters also testified
    regarding the incident.       One sister, K.G., testified she had
    dinner with both T.M. and Spencer on the night of the robbery.
    She said they left together hours before the shooting, in the
    same van later found at the scene of the crime.             Another sister,
    Q.G.,   testified   that   R.S.,   prior    to    his   interview    with   the
    detectives, told her Spencer was involved in the robbery.                    She
    said she called R.S. shortly after T.M. died, and when R.S.
    returned her call, he told her "D'Dog" was responsible.                     Q.G.
    denied that she knew who D'Dog was.         She testified R.S. told her
    T.M. and D'Dog "pulled up in a van and D'Dog and [T.M.] got out
    [of] the van.     [T.M.] stood a little further off away from them
    with his hands behind the back and his head down and said D'Dog
    walked up to him and grabbed him by his shirt with a gun and
    told him . . . you're going to die today and tried to drag him
    down the street."     Q.G. recounted that she "asked [R.S.] would
    7
    No.    2018AP942-CR
    he tell that same story to detectives and he said yes," and that
    she called the detectives immediately after her phone call with
    R.S. and told them what he had said.                     During his testimony, R.S.
    denied that he told Q.G. that D'Dog was involved; instead, he
    said she told him "it was D-dog."                 The prosecutor summed up:
    Q: So, just so I'm clear, you told detectives that it
    was D-Dog because you felt threatened. Correct?
    A:    Yes.
    Q:   You told one of your girlfriends it was a person
    by the name of Spencer, who may be involved but not
    actually with a gun. Correct?
    A:    Yes.
    Q:   And you told [Q.G.] that, who the robbers were,
    but you don't remember saying it was D-Dog?
    A:    She told me it was D-Dog.
    ¶11    At trial, numerous discrepancies surfaced between the
    story   R.S.       provided     to    detectives      and     his    trial    testimony.
    Detectives         interviewed       R.S.    three    times    about    the    incident,
    during which R.S. identified Spencer as the other individual
    with T.M.       R.S. changed his story at trial, saying he "couldn't
    recognize"         the   individual     with      T.M.      R.S.     admitted       he   had
    previously identified Spencer, or "D-Dog," and that he told the
    detective "Spencer walked up and stated, Where is the money at,"
    took $400 from him, grabbed him by his collar and told him
    "[c]ome with me, you are going to die," and "pull[ed] out a dark
    gray    large       semi-automatic          handgun    from    his     left    side      and
    point[ed] it at [R.S.]"                He also testified that he remembered
    telling      the    detective    Spencer       dragged      him     across    the   street
    8
    No.   2018AP942-CR
    toward a gold mini-van, and he broke away because he thought the
    men were going to put him in the van.     R.S. recounted that as he
    ran away, "[s]hots were fired," and he remembered telling the
    detective Spencer raised his firearm and fired one shot at him,
    and he heard more gunshots as he ran.        R.S. claimed Danny told
    him afterward he "was firing from the residence in an attempt to
    protect [R.S.]."   R.S. testified he did not call T.M. because he
    was "scared because [T.M.] was with [Spencer]."
    ¶12   To   explain   the   discrepancies,   R.S.     stated,    "[the
    detectives] threatened me if I didn't cooperate, they would lock
    me up and charge me with the crime."         R.S. explained he used
    Spencer's name because "[t]he detectives told me if I didn't
    give up Mr. Spencer they would charge me with the crime."               R.S.
    reiterated throughout his testimony that he had "no idea who the
    individual was" and he "couldn't recognize him."               R.S. also
    admitted he lied to detectives about Green-Brown being at the
    second location, because Green-Brown "was on probation" and he
    "didn't want to get him involved."     He also said he was not "at
    first up front about Danny McKinney telling [him] he had fired
    to protect [him] as [he] ran away."      Additionally, R.S. stated
    he "didn't go to the back door to get money for the tow truck
    driver" because he had money in his pocket.6             Earlier in his
    testimony, however, R.S. indicated the two men took a "[c]ouple
    dollars" from his pockets, which again conflicted with both his
    6  Earlier in his testimony,      R.S.   said   he    "went    in    the
    house . . . to use the bathroom."
    9
    No.    2018AP942-CR
    testimony that he had enough money in his pocket for the tow
    truck driver and his statement to the detective that the men
    took $400 from him.
    ¶13    The    detective      who   conducted        the    first    interview
    testified     he   never    threatened    R.S.    into    disclosing      Spencer’s
    involvement, and that R.S. provided the names of the individuals
    who robbed him.         Throughout the detective's testimony, portions
    of   his    interview      with   R.S.   were    played    for   the     jury.    In
    response to the prosecutor's questioning about whether the story
    R.S. gave to the detectives was true, R.S. explained:
    A: I didn't say it's not true.              I never said it ain't
    true.
    Q: So, you did hear, you did see the defendant put a
    gun in your stomach tell you you were going to die and
    shoot at you?
    A: I didn't recognize the second person, but that is
    what happened.
    Q: So, everything is true, except for the identity of
    the defendant as being the person who did all this?
    A:    Yes.
    Q:    Just so we are clear, a guy you owe money to?
    . . .
    A:    Yes.
    B.   The Judge's Meeting with Juror 2
    ¶14    On the fifth and last day of trial, which began at
    8:59 a.m., a discussion about jury instructions was interrupted
    by a bailiff informing the judge that Juror 2 was ill.                           The
    record reflects the court took a 45-minute recess, during which
    10
    No.   2018AP942-CR
    the judge sent Juror 2 to the judge's chambers to rest.                   The
    judge met with Juror 2 in her chambers, without counsel or the
    defendant, but "conferred with the attorneys" outside of the
    courtroom.     Following the meeting, at 10:05 a.m., the judge went
    back on the record to explain what had transpired:
    It's been over a half an hour at least, maybe 45
    minutes, since we went off the record earlier.    The
    Court went off the record because I was advised that
    we had a juror who was not feeling well. And when I
    inquired and with the assistance of one of the
    bailiffs, we had the juror come out of the jury room,
    go into my chambers where there's a quiet place for
    her to rest to see whether she would be feeling
    better.
    She is not feeling well enough to proceed. And when I
    asked her about 15, 20 minutes ago if she thought she
    would feel well enough to proceed in any particular
    length of time, her answer was very tentative and she
    said unlikely basically and she didn't know how long
    she would need before she could participate. She is,
    if you want to know the details, queasy, light headed,
    just unwell generally.
    I did inquire. She said she's been having some health
    issues as of late and believes that these are——her
    words——"the reminisce" of some health issues that have
    been going on I think last week.
    ¶15   Although counsel was not in the room for the judge's
    interactions    with   Juror   2,   the   judge   relayed    at   least   one
    question from counsel.     The judge described the juror's response
    while documenting her handling of the situation:
    I conferred with the attorneys.   We met in the back.
    I advised the attorneys going along what was the cause
    for the delay and what was being done to assist the
    juror and we agreed to wait and we've now waited a
    significant period of time. And I have to be mindful
    that we have the remaining 12 sitting back in the jury
    room waiting to move forward.
    11
    No.     2018AP942-CR
    I understand the significance of this for both sides,
    frankly.   This is the only African-American juror on
    the panel. But I am not prepared to put her health at
    risk by having her continue and go to deliberations
    when she is so unwell.     After we met, the defense
    asked a question for purposes of the record which I do
    not find inappropriate.   I did ask——I inquired along
    the lines of the concern that the defense had.       I
    asked the juror if her stress or her not being well
    enough to proceed had anything to do with her service
    as a juror or with the behavior of any of the other
    jurors.   Her response to me was "Oh, no.     This has
    nothing to do with the trial." So I'm satisfied with
    that response. I've made my record.
    Additionally,        the    judge   noted,      "the   remainder       of   the     jurors
    already were aware [the] juror was not feeling well, that she
    had   been    laying       down . . . in     the   jury      room.      She    had    been
    resting in there before she was excused to chambers.                          So they're
    aware of the situation.             They're aware that it's regarding her
    health."
    C. The Dismissal of the Juror
    ¶16    After meeting with the juror and explaining the nature
    of that meeting on the record, the judge provided opportunity
    for    counsel   to    bring     motions     on    the    dismissal.          The    judge
    explained, "At this point I will tell you I have resolved that
    we will go forward with the 12.                 I understand that each of you——
    one of you might have some motions to bring and I'll allow you
    to    state   your    positions     succinctly         for   the     record[.]"        The
    prosecutor requested the juror be struck "for cause," which the
    circuit court granted.           Defense counsel moved for a mistrial and
    renewed her Swain challenge, both of which the judge denied.7
    7Defense counsel had argued in a pretrial motion that
    Milwaukee County's procedure of using driver's licenses to
    12
    No.     2018AP942-CR
    The trial proceeded with the 12 remaining jurors.                            The jury
    returned a guilty verdict on each count.
    D.    Spencer's       Postconviction Motion
    ¶17   Spencer     filed    a    postconviction        motion       arguing    the
    circuit court violated his Sixth Amendment right to counsel by
    interviewing the juror ex parte and maintaining trial counsel
    was ineffective for failing to object to the meeting with the
    juror and failing to object to hearsay testimony.                     Regarding the
    hearsay testimony, Spencer asserted R.S. "told the police that
    Mr.    McKinney    had    told   him     that   he,   Mr.    McKinney,       had    been
    shooting to protect [R.S.]" and that the testimony was used "to
    prove the truth of the matters asserted" because it was used "to
    show that Mr. McKinney was shooting to protect [R.S.]"                         Spencer
    claimed this testimony was "key evidence in the State's theory
    of felony murder."
    ¶18   The    circuit      court    denied      the    motion       without    an
    evidentiary hearing.           With respect to the judge's interactions
    with   the   juror,      the   court   concluded      it    could   not     find    "the
    juror's health issue which arose in this case prior to closing
    arguments constituted a critical stage of the proceedings in
    which the defendant needed assistance with a legal problem and
    where counsel's presence was essential."                    The court determined
    that even if it were error to meet with the juror outside the
    summon jurors resulted in an unconstitutional racial composition
    of the jury panel, which in this case consisted of 2 Black
    citizens on the panel of 35, in violation of Swain v. Alabama,
    
    380 U.S. 202
     (1965). The circuit court denied the motion.
    13
    No.    2018AP942-CR
    presence of the parties, it was harmless because the error did
    not   prejudice       Spencer's       case     or    contribute        to    the    guilty
    verdict.      With     respect    to    the       hearsay    testimony,       the    court
    concluded, "even if trial counsel had objected and the testimony
    was struck, there is simply not a reasonable probability that
    the defendant would have been acquitted . . . because there was
    absolute overwhelming evidence of guilt."
    E.     Court of Appeals Proceedings
    ¶19    Spencer       appealed    the        denial    of   his    postconviction
    motion.      With respect to Spencer's Sixth Amendment claim, the
    court of appeals assumed the circuit court's discussion with the
    juror violated Spencer's right to counsel, but concluded "any
    such violation was harmless" because "counsel was still included
    in the process of deciding what to do in response to the juror
    falling ill."         State v. Spencer, No. 2018AP942-CR, unpublished
    slip op., ¶19 (Wis. Ct. App. Mar. 9, 2021).                            The court noted
    counsel     "agreed    to    wait"     while      the   juror    rested,      and,    upon
    resuming the record, the circuit court "made the decision, with
    counsel present, to dismiss the juror for cause," at which point
    counsel objected and moved for a mistrial.                             
    Id.
        The court
    further concluded Spencer received "a fair and impartial jury,
    and the communications cannot be said to have influenced the
    jury's verdict."8          Id., ¶21.
    8Judge White concurred in part and dissented in part.
    Judge White disagreed that the due process and equal protection
    claims were forfeited.    Spencer, No. 2018AP942-CR, at ¶30 n.1
    (White, J., concurring/dissenting). She concluded the dismissal
    of the juror was a critical stage of the proceedings,
    implicating both due process and the right to counsel, id., ¶33,
    14
    No.   2018AP942-CR
    ¶20       Having    affirmed       the    denial        of   the    postconviction
    motion on the foregoing grounds, the court reversed the order
    with respect to Spencer's ineffective assistance claim.                                 Id.,
    ¶29.       The court remanded for a hearing on this claim, concluding
    "Spencer          alleged        sufficient           material       facts      [in      his
    postconviction motion] that would entitle him to relief, and the
    trial court was required to grant Spencer a Machner9 hearing."
    Id.,       ¶26    (citing       State    v.     Sholar,    
    2018 WI 53
    ,    ¶51,    
    381 Wis. 2d 560
    , 
    912 N.W.2d 89
    ).
    ¶21       Spencer appealed the affirmance of the circuit court's
    denial       of    his     postconviction            motion.        The    State      cross-
    petitioned, arguing the case should not have been remanded for a
    Machner hearing.            We granted both petitions for review.                     We now
    affirm the denial of the postconviction motion and reverse the
    decision to remand for an evidentiary hearing.
    II.     STANDARD OF REVIEW
    ¶22       This case requires us to determine whether Spencer had
    a constitutional right to be represented by counsel during the
    circuit court's ex parte meeting with the ill juror.                            We review
    independently             the      interpretation          and        application         of
    and disagreed that the ex parte meeting was harmless error
    because the court's analysis was "devoid of 'a fact-specific
    due-process inquiry' that is required to determine if 'the
    communication between the judge and jury [denied] the defendant
    a fair and just hearing.'"         Id., ¶53 (quoting State v.
    Alexander, 
    2013 WI 70
    , ¶28, 
    349 Wis. 2d 327
    , 
    833 N.W.2d 126
    ).
    9   State v. Machner, 
    92 Wis. 2d 797
    , 
    285 N.W.2d 905
     (Ct. App.
    1979).
    15
    No.     2018AP942-CR
    constitutional provisions.              State v. Alexander, 
    2013 WI 70
    , ¶18,
    
    349 Wis. 2d 327
    , 
    833 N.W.2d 126
     (citing State v. Hamdan, 
    2003 WI 113
    , ¶19, 
    264 Wis. 2d 433
    , 
    665 N.W.2d 785
    ); see also State v.
    Chambers,    
    2021 WI 13
    ,     ¶13,    
    395 Wis. 2d 770
    ,    
    955 N.W.2d 144
    ("This   court    independently           reviews    whether    deprivation      of    a
    constitutional      right    has    occurred."       (quoting    State     v.   Jones,
    
    2010 WI 72
    , ¶23, 
    326 Wis. 2d 380
    , 
    797 N.W.2d 378
    )).
    ¶23     We apply a mixed standard of review to the court of
    appeals'    determination          that     the     circuit    court     erroneously
    exercised its discretion when it denied Spencer's postconviction
    motion   without     holding       an     evidentiary    hearing.        Ruffin,      __
    Wis. 2d __, ¶26 (citing State v. Allen, 
    2004 WI 106
    , ¶9, 
    274 Wis. 2d 568
    , 
    682 N.W.2d 433
    ).                We first independently consider
    "whether    the   motion     on    its     face   alleges     sufficient    material
    facts that, if true, would entitle the defendant to relief."
    
    Id.,
     ¶27 (citing          Allen, 
    274 Wis. 2d 568
    , ¶9).                 "Whether the
    record conclusively demonstrates that the defendant is entitled
    to no relief is also a question of law we review independently."
    
    Id.
     (citing State v. Sulla, 
    2016 WI 46
    , ¶23, 
    369 Wis. 2d 225
    ,
    
    880 N.W.2d 659
    ).          If the record conclusively demonstrates the
    defendant is not entitled to relief, the circuit court has the
    discretion to decide whether to hold a hearing, which we review
    for an erroneous exercise of discretion.                Id., ¶28.
    III. DISCUSSION
    A.      No Sixth Amendment Violation
    ¶24     This challenge involves ex parte contact between the
    circuit court and a juror after the close of evidence but prior
    16
    No.     2018AP942-CR
    to deliberations, concerning the juror's health.                                Considering
    both the substance and the timing of the meeting, we conclude
    the   judge's      communications         with       the      juror     did     not    violate
    Spencer's Sixth Amendment rights because the meeting did not
    constitute a critical stage at which the presence of counsel was
    required.       Trial counsel was present for the court's decision to
    dismiss     the    juror,      which    was     made       on    the    record        and   with
    counsel's participation.               Even if the ex parte meeting were a
    violation, any error was harmless.
    1.      The ex parte meeting was not a critical stage
    ¶25      The Sixth Amendment provides, in relevant part: "In
    all     criminal       prosecutions,          the        accused       shall     enjoy       the
    right . . . to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense."
    U.S. Const. amend. VI.                 The historical underpinnings of this
    right     are     reflected      in     its     "core         purpose . . . to          assure
    'Assistance' at trial, when the accused [i]s confronted with
    both the intricacies of the law and the advocacy of the public
    prosecutor."          United States v. Ash, 
    413 U.S. 300
    , 309 (1973).
    The United States Supreme Court has accordingly applied a test
    "call[ing] for examination of the event in order to determine
    whether the accused required aid in coping with legal problems
    or assistance in meeting his adversary."                        
    Id. at 313
    .
    ¶26      The right to counsel attaches "at all critical stages
    of the criminal process."                Iowa v. Tovar, 
    541 U.S. 77
    , 80–81
    (2004)    (citing      Maine    v.     Moulton,      
    474 U.S. 159
    ,     170    (1985);
    United States v. Wade, 
    388 U.S. 218
    , 224 (1967)).                                 Not every
    point    in     the    criminal       process       is    a     "critical       stage";      the
    17
    No.    2018AP942-CR
    constitutional right to counsel has been expanded "only when new
    contexts    appear       presenting          the       same     dangers         that   gave    birth
    initially to the right itself."                          Ash, 
    413 U.S. at 311
    .                      The
    United States Supreme Court has identified as critical stages
    "proceedings       between       an    individual             and    agents       of    the    State
    (whether    'formal       or    informal,          in     court          or    out,' . . .) that
    amount to 'trial-like confrontations,' at which counsel would
    help the accused 'in coping with legal problems or . . . meeting
    his adversary.'"          Rothgery v. Gillespie County, 
    554 U.S. 191
    ,
    212 n.16 (2008) (citing United States v. Wade, 
    388 U.S. 218
    , 226
    (1967); Ash, 
    413 U.S. at
    312–13; Massiah v. United States, 
    377 U.S. 201
     (1964)) (internal citations omitted).                                    Points in the
    process     are    not    critical           if        "there       is    minimal       risk    that
    [defendant's] counsel's absence at such stages might derogate
    from his right to a fair trial."                       Wade, 
    388 U.S. at 228
    .
    ¶27   Wisconsin courts have determined that voir dire, jury
    instructions, and jury deliberations constitute critical stages
    at which the right to counsel attaches.                                  See, e.g., State v.
    Tulley,     
    2001 WI App 236
    ,    ¶¶6,        11,       
    248 Wis. 2d 505
    ,         
    635 N.W.2d 807
     (voir dire); State v. Mills, 
    107 Wis. 2d 368
    , 370,
    
    320 N.W.2d 38
         (Ct.       App.     1982)          (jury    instructions);              State    v.
    Koller, 
    2001 WI App 253
    , ¶62, 
    248 Wis. 2d 259
    , 
    635 N.W.2d 838
    (jury     deliberations).               In        Koller,        the          court    of    appeals
    emphasized        that    "a      trial           court's           communication            with     a
    deliberating jury in the absence of . . . defendant's counsel
    violates     the    defendant's          constitutional                  right . . . to         have
    counsel at every stage where he or she needs aid in dealing with
    18
    No.       2018AP942-CR
    legal problems."               
    248 Wis. 2d 259
    , ¶62 (citing State v. Burton,
    
    112 Wis. 2d 560
    , 565, 
    334 N.W.2d 263
     (1983), overruled on other
    grounds by Alexander, 
    349 Wis. 2d 327
    )).
    ¶28    In        State       v.    Lehman,         
    108 Wis. 2d 291
    ,         301,      
    321 N.W.2d 212
             (1982),          we    held      the    circuit      court       erroneously
    exercised its discretion by discharging ex parte a juror who
    became ill during jury deliberations.                             We decided the case on
    purely statutory grounds, concluding the discharge of the juror
    violated       
    Wis. Stat. § 972.02
    (1)        (1979–80),        governing          the
    defendant's right to jury trial by twelve persons,                                       and 
    Wis. Stat. § 972.05
     (1979–80), governing the process for replacing
    regular      jurors      with        alternates.           
    Id.
        at   301   n.6,      318     n.17.
    Additionally, we detailed the procedure a circuit court must
    follow before discharging a juror.                         Id. at 300.         The record in
    Lehman       was    "totally          devoid     of       any     indication"       as    to    the
    circumstances of the juror's illness and subsequent discharge,
    including "whether the circuit judge questioned the juror prior
    to   her     discharge."             Id. at      293–94,        301.    Given      a     deficient
    record, we declared, "[I]t is the circuit court's duty, prior to
    the exercise of its discretion to excuse the juror, to make
    careful inquiry into the substance of the request and to exert
    reasonable efforts to avoid discharging the juror."                                 Id. at 300.
    We   noted     the       efforts         of   the    circuit       court     "depend       on   the
    circumstances           of    the     case."         Id.         Although    Lehman       did    not
    implicate the Sixth Amendment, and the procedure outlined in
    that   case        is    not    a     constitutional            requirement,       the    court's
    19
    No.   2018AP942-CR
    discussion of the nature of jury deliberations provides useful
    context for our constitutional analysis.
    ¶29     Removing a juror during deliberations "poses a very
    difficult question for the fair and efficient administration of
    justice" because it impedes the deliberative process.            Id. at
    307–08.       We explained in Lehman:
    If, during deliberations, a juror is discharged and
    another substituted, the eleven regular jurors will
    have had the benefit of the views of the discharged
    juror while the alternate will not.       The eleven
    regular jurors will have formed views without the
    benefit of the views of the alternate juror, and the
    alternate juror who is unfamiliar with the prior
    deliberations will participate without the benefit of
    the prior group discussion.
    Id.        The court of appeals in State v. Avery, 
    2011 WI App 124
    ,
    
    337 Wis. 2d 351
    , 
    804 N.W.2d 216
    , also addressed the discharge of
    a juror during jury deliberations.       In Avery, the court assumed
    it was error for the judge to conduct ex parte communications
    with the juror.10       Avery, 
    337 Wis. 2d 351
    , ¶56.    In that case,
    the sheriff called the judge at his home late in the evening to
    relay a request from a juror to be excused due to an "unforeseen
    family emergency" and marital difficulties.        Id., ¶51.       After
    this conversation, the judge contacted the special prosecutor
    and defense counsel, who agreed the judge should speak with the
    juror and that the juror should be excused if the information
    could be verified.        Id.   Because the trial judge's discussion
    The court assumed the ex parte contact violated Avery’s
    10
    constitutional right to be present, but did not provide a
    detailed analysis on the constitutional claim. State v. Avery,
    
    2011 WI App 124
    , ¶56, 
    337 Wis. 2d 351
    , 
    804 N.W.2d 216
    .
    20
    No.    2018AP942-CR
    with    the    juror,    who    was    ultimately          excused,      could     not    have
    influenced the remaining jurors——who had no further contact with
    the excused juror——the appellate court concluded Avery received
    a fair trial and the error was harmless.                     Id., ¶58.
    ¶30    In    United     States       v.     Schiro,     the      Seventh     Circuit
    addressed a judge's ex parte discussion with a juror during the
    trial.11      
    679 F.3d 521
     (7th Cir. 2012).                 After learning the juror
    was uncomfortable serving on the jury and observing that she
    seemed "anxious and even panicky," the judge "met with her in
    private and asked her whether everything was okay."                             
    Id. at 531
    .
    Although      she     confirmed       it    was,     the     juror      asked     follow-up
    questions——including           whether      the     trial     was       almost    over     and
    whether threats were made against her——which prompted the judge
    to   remove     her     from   the     jury.         
    Id.
              The    Seventh    Circuit
    determined         counsel's      absence         from      the     meeting        was     not
    constitutionally problematic:
    Given her anxieties it would not have been a good idea
    to confront her with the defendants' lawyers——that is,
    agents of the defendants; she would have been
    intimidated by their presence. A defendant's interest
    in being present at all stages of his trial is limited
    by the need for orderly administration of criminal
    trials.
    
    Id.
     (internal citations omitted).                   The court concluded, however,
    that    "before     dismissing        her   the     judge     should      have     told    the
    As in Lehman, the court in United States v. Schiro did
    11
    not consider whether the meeting was a "critical stage" under
    the Sixth Amendment; instead, the court determined "[t]he
    judge's failure to consult the lawyers was thus a harmless
    error." 
    679 F.3d 521
    , 531 (7th Cir. 2012).
    21
    No.    2018AP942-CR
    lawyers about his discussions with her . . . , for they might
    have    suggested            that    he    question     her    further,   albeit    outside
    their presence."               
    Id.
     (internal citations omitted).                 The court
    determined the error was harmless, acknowledging that "[s]he had
    already      answered          the    essential       questions . . . by        saying    she
    hadn't been threatened . . . and hadn't discussed her anxieties
    with the other jurors.                 What more was there to ask her?"             
    Id.
    ¶31 Guided by this precedent and having the benefit of a
    detailed record documenting the judge's communications with the
    juror as well as counsel, we conclude the judge's meeting with
    Juror 2 regarding her health did not constitute a critical stage
    of the proceedings because the meeting (1) occurred prior to
    deliberations and (2) involved only a discussion of the juror's
    health and ability to proceed.                     Both the timing and substance of
    the communications dictate that counsel's absence did not result
    in a constitutional violation.
    ¶32    As to timing, the meeting took place after the close
    of evidence but before deliberations began.                               As the circuit
    court explained, the alternate juror had been present for the
    trial and had not been excluded from any juror deliberations.
    Whereas the concerns animating the court's reasoning in Lehman,
    Avery,       and    other           jury   deliberation        cases    arose    from     the
    difficulty         in    replicating         the   deliberative        process    with    the
    substitution            of    an     alternate        juror,    substitution     prior     to
    deliberations does not implicate these problems.12
    Our conclusion is reinforced by Wisconsin's decision not
    12
    to recognize "alternate" jurors.    See 
    Wis. Stat. § 972.10
    (7)
    22
    No.        2018AP942-CR
    ¶33     As to substance, the judge's conversation with Juror 2
    regarding her health was not one in which Spencer "required aid
    in    coping    with         legal       problems       or    assistance      in      meeting       his
    adversary."            See Ash, 
    413 U.S. at 313
    ; see also United States v.
    Gagnon, 
    470 U.S. 522
    , 526 (1985) ("[T]he mere occurrence of an
    ex parte conversation between a trial judge and a juror does not
    constitute         a    deprivation          of    any       constitutional         right.          The
    defense      has       no    constitutional             right    to    be   present         at    every
    interaction            between       a   judge     and       a   juror,     nor       is     there    a
    constitutional right to have a court reporter transcribe every
    such communication." (quoting Rushen v. Spain, 
    464 U.S. 114
    ,
    125–26       (1983)              (Stevens,      J.,       concurring         in       judgment)));
    Alexander, 
    349 Wis. 2d 327
    , ¶22 ("A conference in chambers might
    well constitute part of the trial depending upon what matters
    are    discussed            or    passed     upon."      (quoting       Ramer      v.      State,    
    40 Wis. 2d 79
    , 84, 
    161 N.W.2d 209
     (1968)). The record shows the
    communications              centered       on     the    nature       of    Juror       2's      health
    issues.      The juror had been "laying down . . . in the jury room"
    and was brought to chambers to rest.                                  The judge communicated
    (2019–20) ("If additional jurors have been selected under
    s. 972.04(1) . . . , the court shall determine by lot which
    jurors shall not participate in deliberations and discharge
    them."). The legislature repealed the alternate juror provision
    in 1984 and amended related provisions to instead reference
    "additional jurors" in order to "promote an attentive attitude
    and a collegial relationship among all jurors."       See 1983 Wis.
    Act 226, §§ 3–5; Judicial Council Note, 1983, 
    Wis. Stat. § 972.04
    .      This   attempt   to    increase   attentiveness   and
    collegiality among all jurors minimizes if not eliminates any
    consequences   of   discharging    any   particular   juror   before
    deliberations.
    23
    No.     2018AP942-CR
    Juror 2 was "not feeling well enough to proceed" and she would
    be "unlikely" to proceed "in any particular length of time."
    The judge described the "details" of her symptoms as "queasy,
    light headed, just unwell generally."                     Additionally, the judge
    conveyed that Juror 2 "said she's been having some health issues
    as     of    late     and     believes       that    these    are——her       words——'the
    reminisce' of some health issues that have been going on I think
    last week."
    ¶34        Spencer   contends      "there      were    legal    issues      to     be
    addressed where trial counsel could have acted on behalf of her
    client, thus making the ex parte meeting a critical stage in the
    proceedings."          As one example, Spencer says counsel "could have
    thoroughly explored whether the nature of the juror's illness
    rose    to    the     level     of    cause    for    dismissal,      or     whether     her
    discomfort might have warranted a request for a continuance for
    a few hours, if appropriate, or even a day."                          Spencer asserts
    counsel "could have thoroughly investigated whether the fact the
    juror was the lone African-American on the panel contributed to
    her discomfort."
    ¶35        We are skeptical of the utility or propriety of this
    sort    of        adversarial    approach      to    a   juror's      health     status——
    particularly because counsel could pose questions through the
    judge       and    deliberations       had    not    begun.     The    judge     in     fact
    relayed a question from defense counsel concerning the source of
    the juror's symptoms.                The court stated, "I did ask——I inquired
    along the lines of the concern that the defense had.                              I asked
    the juror if her stress or her not being well enough to proceed
    24
    No.     2018AP942-CR
    had anything to do with her service as a juror or with the
    behavior of any of the other jurors."                       The judge indicated, "Her
    response to me was 'Oh, no.                    This has nothing to do with the
    trial.'"
    ¶36        The    United      States     Supreme        Court    has     recognized       as
    "critical stages" those "step[s] of a criminal proceeding" which
    involve some adversarial confrontation, such as postindictment
    interrogations,          plea        hearings,        preliminary          hearings,          and
    sentencing.          See Schmidt v. Foster, 
    911 F.3d 469
    , 480 (7th Cir.
    2018);    see    also       Wade,     
    388 U.S. at 226
         ("[T]he       accused     is
    guaranteed that he need not stand alone . . . where counsel's
    absence    might       derogate       from     the    accused's       right       to    a   fair
    trial . . . .            The      presence      of     counsel       at    such        critical
    confrontations, as at the trial itself, operates to assure that
    the accused's interests will be protected consistently with our
    adversary       theory       of     criminal        prosecution.").              The    meeting
    between    the       juror     and    the    judge     in    this     case       was    not    an
    adversarial event in which "defense counsel was powerless to
    prime the pump of persuasion."                       United States v. Parent, 
    954 F.2d 23
    , 26 (1st Cir. 1992).                    Indeed, Juror 2's response does
    not invite the force of the adversarial process to ferret out an
    answer that might better serve the defendant's interests.                                   This
    juror had been "laying down" in the jury room, the other jurors
    were aware that she had health concerns, and she told the judge
    she was "unlikely" to be able to continue.                           At least under the
    facts     of    this        case,     when     the      juror       became       ill    before
    deliberations         and    trial     counsel        was    aware    of     the       meeting,
    25
    No.    2018AP942-CR
    "agreed to wait," and had the opportunity to relay questions,
    the adversarial process would not serve any proper role.                           In
    fact, it may have subjected Juror 2 to more stress and soured
    her opinion of the criminal justice system.                      The investigative
    and adversarial probing of jurors' symptoms——particularly when
    substitute jurors are available and the deliberative process is
    not    compromised——is      far     afield       of     the     Sixth    Amendment's
    protections      and    antithetical       to    the      idea    of     an   orderly
    courtroom.13
    2.     Trial counsel was present for the decision to dismiss
    ¶37    Having   determined    the    ex    parte       meeting    between   the
    judge and Juror 2 did not offend the Constitution, we turn to
    the trial court's decision to dismiss the ill juror——a related
    but procedurally independent event.14                 In Alexander, we concluded
    Consistent with the reasons underlying the constitutional
    13
    protections, as a best practice lawyers should be present if
    possible.    See, e.g. Alexander, 
    349 Wis. 2d 327
    , ¶76 n.2
    (Ziegler, J., concurring) ("[I]t is a good practice to include
    defendants and counsel, if possible, when matters arise during
    trial."); State v. Lehman, 
    108 Wis. 2d 291
    , 300, 
    321 N.W.2d 212
    (1982) ("Such inquiry [into the substance of the discharge
    request] generally should be made out of the presence of the
    jurors and in the presence of all counsel and the defendant."
    (emphasis added)).     Nonetheless, the deviation from this
    practice under the circumstances of this case, which for the
    reasons set forth above counseled against the lawyers' presence,
    did not rise to a constitutional violation entitling Spencer to
    a new trial.
    At the court of appeals, Judge White dissented based on
    14
    "Spencer's right to due process and his right to have counsel
    present during a critical stage in the legal proceeding, namely
    when a juror selected at voir dire was dismissed for cause
    before deliberations began."    Spencer, No. 2018AP942-CR, ¶33
    (White, J., concurring/dissenting).  This conflates the judge's
    ex parte communications with the juror and the judge's decision
    26
    No.     2018AP942-CR
    the      defendant         "had    no    automatic       constitutional       right      to    be
    present during the circuit court's in-chambers discussions" with
    two of the jurors.                 Alexander, 
    349 Wis. 2d 327
    , ¶30.                      In our
    discussion on that point, we cited a Third Circuit Court of
    Appeals case holding "there is no constitutional right for a
    defendant to be present at a conference in chambers concerning
    dismissal        of    a    juror."        Id.,    ¶29     (quoting    United      States      v.
    Provenzano,           
    620 F.2d 985
    ,     997–98     (3d    Cir.      1980)).          We
    emphasized,           "[a]ll      that    the    Constitution       requires      at    such    a
    conference is the presence of defense counsel."                                  
    Id.
     (citing
    Ellis      v.    Oklahoma,         
    430 F.2d 1352
    ,     1355     (10th      Cir.    1970))
    (emphasis added).              In this case, defense counsel was present "at
    such a conference" "concerning dismissal of a juror."                              See 
    id.
    ¶38    Prior to the discussion on the juror's dismissal, the
    judge was notified that a juror was feeling ill and laying down
    in the jury room, had Juror 2 moved to her chambers where there
    was "a quiet place for her to rest," proceeded to check on Juror
    2   in    her    chambers——meanwhile              "conferr[ing]"       with      counsel      who
    "agreed to wait"——and asked a question on behalf of defense
    counsel        regarding       the      nature    of   the   illness.         That      was   the
    extent of the ex parte meeting.                        After roughly 45 minutes, the
    judge went back on the record and documented what transpired
    during her interaction with Juror 2, stated that she decided to
    dismiss the juror, and invited counsel to make any motions on
    to dismiss, which was made on the record while counsel was
    present and had the opportunity to make motions and object——
    which Spencer's counsel did.
    27
    No.     2018AP942-CR
    the issue.        This decision to dismiss occurred on the record, in
    the presence of counsel, and with counsel's participation.                               That
    is all the Constitution requires.
    B.      Harmless Error
    ¶39     Even    if    the    judge's         meeting    with    Juror       2    were   a
    critical      stage,       any    Sixth    Amendment         violation      was       harmless
    error.      "Ordinarily, the absence of counsel at a critical stage
    of the trial is not subject to harmless error analysis."                                 State
    v. Anderson, 
    2006 WI 77
    , ¶74, 
    291 Wis. 2d 673
    , 
    717 N.W.2d 74
    ,
    overruled on other grounds by Alexander, 
    349 Wis. 2d 327
    , ¶¶26–
    29.   However, we have held "a harmless error analysis may apply
    to certain violations of the Sixth Amendment right to counsel"
    including         "when     the        circuit      court      has     had        ex    parte
    communications with the jury." Id., ¶76.                       In determining whether
    any   error    was     harmless,        "[w]e      examine    the    circumstances        and
    substance of the communication in light of the entire trial[.]"
    Koller,     
    248 Wis. 2d 259
    ,         ¶62     (citing      State   v.    Bjerkaas,       
    163 Wis. 2d 949
    , 957–58, 
    472 N.W.2d 615
     (Ct. App. 1991)).                              "An error
    is harmless if there is no reasonable possibility that the error
    affected the outcome of the trial."15                     
    Id.
     (citing Bjerkaas, 163
    Wis. 2d at 958).
    The principal dissent's misplaced emphasis on the record
    15
    of the ex parte communications fails to properly contextualize
    Anderson, on which it relies.   See Justice Ann Walsh Bradley's
    Dissent, ¶75 ("In light of the absence of a sufficient record,
    an appellate court will have great difficulty concluding that
    the circuit court's erroneous procedure in communicating with
    the jury was harmless error." (quoting State v. Anderson, 
    2006 WI 77
    , ¶81, 
    291 Wis. 2d 673
    , 
    717 N.W.2d 74
    , overruled on other
    grounds by Alexander, 
    349 Wis. 2d 327
    , ¶¶26–29)).          That
    28
    No.   2018AP942-CR
    ¶40   This case reflects the practical realities of running
    a courtroom.    "Judges face tough calls in the courtroom each
    day."   Alexander, 
    349 Wis. 2d 327
    , ¶77 (Ziegler, J., concurring)
    (citations   omitted).   The   United   States   Supreme   Court   has
    statement concerned the circuit court's violation of                the
    statutory requirement that "all statements or comments by           the
    judge to the jury or in their presence relating to the             case
    shall be on the record."        Anderson, 
    291 Wis. 2d 673
    ,          ¶78
    (quoting 
    Wis. Stat. § 805.13
    (1) (2003–04).
    In Anderson, the circuit court responded to two notes from
    the jury during deliberations——neither of which were in the
    record and both of which concerned evidence introduced during
    trial——without   consulting  counsel.       Id.,  ¶14.     After
    deliberations ended, the court informed counsel of the ex parte
    communications and "reconstructed from memory" the substance of
    the contact. Id., ¶15. We determined the lack of a record and
    the circuit court's decision not to read to the jury testimony
    it requested be read "combin[ed] 'to contribute to the verdict
    obtained.'"     Id.,   ¶117.    We    concluded  when   ex parte
    communications occur "during the deliberative phase of a
    criminal prosecution, the absence of a complete record as to the
    alleged communications has been held a factor weighing heavily
    in favor of reversal," because it deprives the appellate court
    "of an opportunity to make an assessment of the prejudicial
    effect of the communication." Id., ¶118 n.72 (quoting 
    43 A.L.R. 4th 410
    , § 24) (emphasis added).     This was particularly so in
    Anderson, in which "[t]he circuit court could have improperly
    influenced the jury deliberations, even if such influence was
    accidental."    Id., ¶118.    The jury's request to hear the
    testimony indicated "it had serious doubts about the outcome of
    the case and wanted to hear the testimony again to determine
    whether a guilty verdict was appropriate."            Id., ¶122.
    "Combin[ed]" with the lack of a record of the communications,
    the court could not determine "beyond a reasonable doubt" the
    errors did not contribute to the verdict. Id., ¶¶117, 123. The
    same combination of factors is not present in this case: The ex
    parte communications occurred between the judge and a juror who
    did not participate in deliberations, and concerned the juror's
    health but not the case itself.    Unlike in Anderson, the judge
    in this case consulted counsel regarding the court's handling of
    the situation.
    29
    No.     2018AP942-CR
    observed, "There is scarcely a lengthy trial in which one or
    more jurors do not have occasion to speak to the trial judge
    about something, whether it relates to a matter of personal
    comfort or to some aspect of the trial."                             Rushen, 
    464 U.S. at 118
    .      Concluding       "that       an    unrecorded         ex   parte     communication
    between       trial    judge     and     juror      can    never      be     harmless       error
    ignores       these     day-to-day           realities      of       courtroom       life    and
    undermines society's interest in the administration of criminal
    justice."        
    Id. at 119
    ; see also United States v. Bertoli, 
    40 F.3d 1384
    ,       1399   (3d      Cir.      1994)      ("While      it     may     have    been
    preferable      to    have     counsel        present, . . . we             cannot    say    that
    [the defendant] was prejudiced by the trial court's decision to
    conduct       the     interviews        [with       the    jurors]          without     counsel
    present.").
    ¶41     The State emphasizes that the "specific inquiry" in
    this    case    concerns       "whether        there's     a     reasonable        possibility
    that counsel's absence during the ex parte discussions affected
    the outcome of Spencer's trial."                          We agree with this narrow
    formulation and conclude any error was harmless.                                   In order to
    affect    the       outcome    of      the    trial,      counsel's        presence     at    the
    meeting       would    have      had    to     result      in     Juror      2's     retention.
    Because the nature of the discussion concerned Juror 2's health,
    there is no reason on this record to believe counsel's presence
    would have had any impact on the juror's ability to proceed.
    The juror had been laying down in the jury room before being
    moved    to    the    judge's       chambers        to    rest,      felt    "queasy,       light
    headed, just unwell generally," and said she was "unlikely" to
    30
    No.      2018AP942-CR
    be able to continue after any particular length of time.                                              The
    judge       relayed         defense       counsel's          question        about      whether       the
    illness was related to the trial, and Juror 2 responded no.                                           As
    the Seventh Circuit queried in Schiro, "What more was there to
    ask her?"         Schiro, 
    679 F.3d at 531
    .
    ¶42       Had    counsel's         presence          at   the     meeting        resulted      in
    Juror       2     remaining         on     the       panel,      there       is    no     reasonable
    possibility her retention would have affected the outcome of the
    trial.          Juror 2 was removed prior to deliberations, so the kind
    of    concerns         inherent          to   the         deliberative        process       were      not
    implicated.            Spencer cites Hinton v. United States, 
    979 A.2d 663
    (D.C.    Cir.       2009),         for    the    proposition           that    "jurors          are   not
    fungible after they have heard the evidence."                                     In Hinton, the
    D.C. Circuit determined the trial court abused its discretion in
    removing an empaneled juror.                              Hinton, 979 A.2d at 692.                    The
    court       emphasized             it     was        not     concluding           "the      erroneous
    replacement            of     an        empaneled          juror     can      never        be     found
    harmless[.]"            Id. at 689, 691–92 ("In many cases, where twelve
    impartial jurors have voted unanimously to find the defendant
    guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, we might be persuaded that the
    erroneously removed thirteenth juror would not have viewed the
    evidence differently.                    Thus, for example, we would suppose that
    if    the       government's         case       is    strong       and   there       is    no    reason
    apparent in the record to think the erroneously removed juror
    would have dissented, a reviewing court could be satisfied that
    the    juror       substitution           had        no    substantial        influence         on    the
    outcome.").             In    that       case,       the    court      had    "some       information
    31
    No.    2018AP942-CR
    concerning       the     removed       juror's         thoughts      about    the     evidence"
    based     on     the     juror's       "pointed,         probing         inquiries"       of    the
    witnesses.       Id. at 692.
    ¶43     Borrowing the language of Hinton, "this is not such a
    case."         Id.      The State's case was strong and there was no
    indication       the     discharged         juror       would   have       voted     to    acquit
    Spencer.        Instead, the State's case shows overwhelming evidence
    of Spencer's guilt.                The only fact disputed by R.S. during his
    trial testimony was whether Spencer was the second individual
    involved in the robbery.                Regarding R.S.'s story, the prosecutor
    asked, "So, everything is true, except for the identity of the
    defendant as being the person who did all this?" to which R.S.
    responded "Yes."
    ¶44     Despite R.S.'s recantation on the stand of statements
    he made identifying Spencer during multiple interviews with the
    police,        the     jury    heard       testimony         from    a     series     of       other
    individuals          placing       Spencer    at       the   scene.         In     addition       to
    telling the detectives Spencer was involved, R.S. told "one of
    [his] girlfriends it was a person by the name of Spencer, who
    may be involved but not actually with a gun."                                 T.M.'s sister,
    K.G., testified she had dinner with both "D-Dog" and T.M. just
    hours before the robbery and shooting, and that "D-Dog" and T.M.
    both left together in the same van later found at the scene.
    Another        sister,        Q.G.,    testified         R.S.       told     her    after        the
    incident——but          before       speaking       to    detectives——that           D-Dog        was
    responsible.           She said R.S. told her "D'Dog came to his block
    with    [T.M.]        and     he    said     he    tried      to——that       they     tried       to
    32
    No.     2018AP942-CR
    kill. . . .       He said they pulled up in a van and D'Dog and
    [T.M.] got out [of] the van" and "D'Dog walked up to him and
    grabbed him by his shirt with a gun[.]"                     She testified that R.S.
    told her he "pulled away from D'Dog," and "took off running down
    the street and D'Dog starting shooting at him."                           Q.G. said R.S.
    told her he would tell the same story to detectives, and that
    she called the detectives immediately after her phone call with
    R.S.            Although    R.S.        testified      he    identified          Spencer   to
    detectives      because     they         threatened         him,     Q.G.'s        testimony
    indicates he had already told her and had voluntarily agreed to
    identify Spencer to the detectives.                    Not only did the detective
    testify he never threatened R.S., but the interview was recorded
    and portions of it were played for the jury during the trial.
    ¶45    Additionally,       Towns     testified        that    Green-Brown,          who
    showed up with R.S. after the incident to complete the tow and
    whom Spencer suggested might be involved, was not one of the
    individuals he had seen during the robbery.                            R.S. repeatedly
    told   detectives       D-Dog     had    robbed     him,     which    he        acknowledged
    during his testimony.             R.S. also testified he owed Spencer a
    debt   of    several    thousand        dollars,       he   had     heard       Spencer    was
    looking for him regarding this debt, and the individual who
    robbed    him   said,    "Where     is     the    money     at?"      Detective          O'Day
    testified R.S. told him in the first of these interviews that
    Spencer      "went   into   his    pockets       and    pulled      out     $400    in    U.S.
    currency," "grabbed him by the front of his shirt," "pulled out
    a gun with his left hand and stated, you're going to die," and
    "drag[ged] him northbound across Townsend to North 23rd Street."
    33
    No.    2018AP942-CR
    He testified R.S. said he realized he was in trouble and began
    to run when he saw the gold mini-van, he saw Spencer shoot at
    him once, and he heard seven more gunshots.                             The report of
    gunshots was corroborated by multiple witnesses, ShotSpotter,
    and forensic evidence, which placed Spencer at the scene through
    fingerprints lifted from the gold van and a traffic citation and
    receipt in his name found inside the van.
    ¶46    Given this record, there is no reasonable possibility
    that trial counsel's absence during the judge's meeting with
    Juror 2 affected the outcome of the trial.                        There is no reason
    to believe counsel would have altered Juror 2's symptoms somehow
    or asked more probing questions enabling Juror 2 to remain on
    the panel.        There is no reason to believe Juror 2's presence on
    the panel would have altered the outcome of the trial in the
    face of overwhelming evidence of Spencer's guilt and with no
    disruption to the deliberative process.
    C.    No Evidentiary Hearing Required
    ¶47    The court of appeals erred in concluding Spencer was
    entitled   to     a    Machner       hearing      on   his    ineffective      assistance
    claim.     See Spencer, No. 2018AP942-CR, at ¶29.                         The court of
    appeals' analysis on this issue mirrors the court of appeals'
    analysis described in State v. Ruffin, decided this term.                             
    2022 WI 34
    , ¶¶39–41, __ Wis. 2d __, 
    974 N.W.2d 432
    .                         In reversing the
    court of appeals' decision in                  Ruffin        that the defendant was
    entitled     to    a       Machner       hearing,      we    reaffirmed       the   "well-
    established" standard on this issue:                        "[A]n evidentiary hearing
    is   not   mandatory          if     a    defendant's         motion    presents      only
    34
    No.     2018AP942-CR
    conclusory allegations or if the record as a whole conclusively
    demonstrates         that    the       defendant        is    not      entitled        to    relief."
    Id., ¶¶35, 38.
    ¶48     As    in     Ruffin,         the    court      of    appeals       in     this      case
    correctly stated the legal standard for holding an evidentiary
    hearing.          See Spencer, No. 2018AP942-CR, at ¶22;                                Ruffin, __
    Wis. 2d __,          ¶40.             The      court         below        explained          if    the
    postconviction motion states sufficient material facts that, if
    true, would entitle the defendant to relief, "the circuit court
    must hold an evidentiary hearing."                            Spencer, No. 2018AP942-CR,
    at   ¶22     (quoting       State       v.    Allen,       
    2004 WI 106
    ,    ¶¶9,       14,    
    274 Wis. 2d 568
    ,         
    682 N.W.2d 433
    ).               "'[I]f          the     [postconviction]
    motion does not raise facts sufficient to entitle the movant to
    relief,      or     presents       only       conclusory          allegations,          or    if   the
    record       conclusively         demonstrates           that       the       defendant       is    not
    entitled to relief,' a trial court may, in its discretion, deny
    a postconviction motion without a hearing."                               
    Id.
     (quoting Allen,
    
    274 Wis. 2d 568
    , ¶9).
    ¶49     As we emphasized in Ruffin, __ Wis. 2d __, ¶3, "even
    if the motion alleges sufficient facts, an evidentiary hearing
    is     not    mandatory          if     the       motion      presents         only     conclusory
    allegations          or     if        the     record         as    a      whole        conclusively
    demonstrates         that    the       defendant        is    not      entitled        to    relief."
    Nevertheless, in both cases "the court of appeals neglected the
    'record       conclusively            demonstrates'           analysis."               Ruffin,       __
    Wis. 2d __, ¶41.             The court below determined only that Spencer
    pled    facts       sufficient         to     entitle      him     to     a    Machner       hearing.
    35
    No.       2018AP942-CR
    Spencer,      No.     2018AP942-CR,          at     ¶26      (citing         Sholar,           
    381 Wis. 2d 560
    , ¶51).          The court "thus perform[ed] only half of the
    required analysis."         Ruffin, __ Wis. 2d __, ¶39.
    ¶50    Applying      this    longstanding          two-step          framework,          we
    conclude Spencer is not entitled to a Machner hearing on his
    ineffective     assistance         claim    because       "the    record         as   a    whole
    conclusively        demonstrates      that       [Spencer]       is   not     entitled         to
    relief."      Id., ¶3; see also Sholar, 
    381 Wis. 2d 560
    , ¶50.                                  The
    circuit court determined "even if trial counsel had objected and
    the    testimony      was   struck,      there     is    simply       not    a    reasonable
    probability     that     [Spencer]       would     have    been       acquitted           of   the
    crimes with which he was charged because there was absolute
    overwhelming evidence of his guilt."                    We agree.       For the reasons
    set forth in the harmless error analysis above——which does not
    rely     on     the      challenged         hearsay        testimony——the                 record
    conclusively shows Spencer is not entitled to relief.
    IV.     CONCLUSION
    ¶51    Under the circumstances of this case, the judge's ex
    parte meeting with Juror 2 did not constitute a critical stage
    at which the presence of counsel was required.                              The meeting's
    timing and substance——the nature of Juror 2's health concerns
    and her ability to continue, prior to deliberations——did not
    implicate Spencer's need for "aid in coping with legal problems
    or assistance in meeting his adversary."                     Ash, 
    413 U.S. at 313
    .
    The judge informed counsel of the situation, relayed a question
    from trial counsel, and after this meeting made the decision to
    dismiss the juror on the record with counsel's participation.
    36
    No.   2018AP942-CR
    We     accordingly      decline      to     recognize        as    a    constitutional
    violation       counsel's    inability       to    personally       subject    the     ill
    juror to a "thorough[] explor[ation]" of the extent and nature
    of her symptoms in an adversarial setting.                    Even if the ex parte
    meeting was error, it was harmless.                      There is no reasonable
    probability that counsel's presence at the meeting would have
    changed the outcome of the trial.
    ¶52     We further clarify that an evidentiary hearing is not
    required when "the record as a whole conclusively demonstrates
    that    the    defendant     is    not    entitled     to    relief."        Ruffin,    __
    Wis. 2d __, ¶3;        see also      Sholar, 
    381 Wis. 2d 560
    ,                ¶50.      The
    record in this case conclusively demonstrates that Spencer is
    not entitled to relief on his ineffective assistance claim.                            We
    reverse       the    court    of    appeals       decision        remanding     for    an
    evidentiary hearing.
    By     the   Court.—The     decision       of   the   court     of    appeals    is
    affirmed in part and reversed in part.
    37
    No.   2018AP942-CR.awb
    ¶53     ANN       WALSH     BRADLEY,          J.       (dissenting).             The      Sixth
    Amendment to the United States Constitution ensures that the
    accused shall have the assistance of counsel.                              To this end, the
    right to counsel attaches at all critical stages of a trial.
    United States v. Wade, 
    388 U.S. 218
    , 224 (1967).
    ¶54     The       issue    before       the    court       is   whether      the       circuit
    court's in chambers, off-the-record communications with an ill
    juror, resulting in the juror's dismissal for cause, constituted
    a critical stage of the trial at which the right to counsel
    attaches.        If    Spencer        did    have      a    right     to   counsel         at   the
    meetings between the circuit court and ill juror, then he is
    entitled to a new trial unless the State can prove beyond a
    reasonable       doubt        that     the        constitutional           error        did     not
    contribute to the verdict.
    ¶55     In      disposing         of     the       Sixth    Amendment         claim,        the
    majority errs in two ways.                    First, it wrongly separates the
    circuit court's communications with the juror from the juror's
    dismissal,       concluding          that     the       communications           between        the
    circuit court and the juror without counsel present did not
    constitute     a      critical       stage    at       which    the      right     to      counsel
    attaches.      Majority op., ¶4.                  Second, it determines that this
    constitutional error was harmless by overlooking gaps in the
    record   and       ignoring      the       State's         burden   to     prove      beyond      a
    reasonable     doubt     that        the    constitutional          error      was    harmless.
    See id., ¶41.
    1
    No.   2018AP942-CR.awb
    ¶56        Contrary          to     the    majority,          I     determine       that    the
    circumstances presented here constitute a critical stage of the
    trial.       Spencer's Sixth Amendment right to counsel was violated
    because his counsel was not present at this critical stage.
    Additionally, I conclude that, assuming harmless error applies,
    the State failed to meet its burden to prove beyond a reasonable
    doubt that this constitutional violation did not contribute to
    the verdict.            Accordingly, I respectfully dissent.1
    I
    ¶57        Spencer was charged with one count of felony murder
    and one count of possession of a firearm by a felon.                                        Majority
    op.,       ¶5.         The    case       went    to     trial,      and    after    the    close    of
    evidence         but     before          deliberations,            the    bailiff    informed      the
    judge that a juror had fallen ill.                                Id., ¶14.    As a result, the
    court took a 45-minute recess, during which time the judge met
    with the ill juror in chambers.                             Id.    Neither the prosecutor nor
    Spencer's counsel was present for the meetings.                                      Id.     Nothing
    was on the record.
    ¶58        After       the        communications            outside    the    presence       of
    counsel occurred, the court went on the record to recreate what
    had transpired in the 45-minute interval.                                   It memorialized the
    determination it had made before allowing the attorneys to state
    their positions for the record or make any motions.                                          At the
    outset,          the    circuit          court     indicated         that     it    had    made    its
    decision         that        the    juror       would       not    proceed    to    deliberations,
    Because I determine that Spencer's Sixth Amendment right
    1
    was violated and the error was not harmless, I need not address
    the other issues presented.
    2
    No.   2018AP942-CR.awb
    explaining      that     the    juror   was   "not    feeling        well    enough   to
    proceed" and that the court was "not prepared to put her health
    at risk by having her continue and go to deliberations when she
    is so unwell."
    ¶59   The     circuit       court     continued        making      the    record,
    advising the attorneys about the juror's condition:                         "She is, if
    you want to know the details, queasy, light headed, just unwell
    generally."        It    further    explained        that    it    had    advised     the
    attorneys of the reason for the delay, that it conferred with
    the attorneys, and that the court waited "a significant period
    of time."     The circuit court also recognized that the ill juror
    was the only African-American juror on the panel and that the
    defendant was African-American.
    ¶60   Additionally, the circuit court stated for the record
    that it had asked the ill juror a question "along the lines of
    the   concern     that    the    defense    had."      The    question       asked    was
    whether "her stress or her not being well enough to proceed had
    anything to do with her service as a juror or with the behavior
    of any of the other jurors."               The ill juror responded, "Oh, no.
    This has nothing to do with the trial."                      Id.     Ultimately, the
    circuit court said, "I've made my record."2
    2The State explained to the circuit court that the juror
    could not be excused but instead should be dismissed for cause.
    It reasoned that the court could not designate the ill juror as
    an alternate because "alternates can only be picked at random"
    and therefore the court "can't designate her as an alternate per
    statute but [the court] can excuse her for a good reason." See
    
    Wis. Stat. § 972.10
    (7) ("If additional jurors have been
    selected . . . and the number remains more than required at
    final submission of the cause, the court shall determine by lot
    which jurors shall not participate in deliberations and
    discharge them.").
    3
    No.   2018AP942-CR.awb
    ¶61    Nothing else was presented to illuminate the juror's
    condition or otherwise speak to the communications that took
    place between the court and the juror.      It was not until after
    the circuit court made a record of its prior decision to dismiss
    the juror for cause that the court invited the parties to bring
    motions and "state [their] positions succinctly for the record."
    ¶62    At that time, defense counsel moved for a mistrial and
    renewed   her   Swain   challenge.3   
    Id.
       Subsequently,      the   jury
    convicted Spencer on both counts.       Id., ¶16.     Spencer filed a
    postconviction motion, arguing both that his Sixth Amendment4
    3  In Swain v. Alabama, the United States Supreme Court held
    that, "Although a [Black] defendant is not entitled to a jury
    containing members of his race, a State's purposeful or
    deliberate denial to [Black people] on account of race of
    participation as jurors in the administration of justice
    violates the Equal Protection Clause."     
    380 U.S. 202
    , 203-04
    (1965).   Earlier in this trial, Spencer's attorney argued that
    "Milwaukee County's procedures when impaneling jury arrays
    systemically excluded African-Americans and, therefore, violated
    Spencer's right to equal protection of the law. The trial court
    found that Spencer failed to prove that Milwaukee County's
    procedures systemically excluded African-Americans from jury
    service and denied Spencer's motion."     State v. Spencer, No.
    2018AP942-CR, unpublished slip op., ¶5 n.3 (Wis. Ct. App. Mar.
    9, 2021).   When Spencer's counsel renewed her Swain challenge,
    she argued that "the research shows . . . that even the presence
    of one African-American on a jury can make a difference in terms
    of reducing systemic bias."
    4   The Sixth Amendment provides in full:
    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy
    the right to a speedy and public trial, by an
    impartial jury of the State and district wherein the
    crime shall have been committed, which district shall
    have been previously ascertained by law, and to be
    informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to
    be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have
    compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his
    4
    No.   2018AP942-CR.awb
    right      to     counsel     was     violated         and    that     his     counsel   was
    ineffective.           The circuit court denied the motion.                  Id., ¶18.
    ¶63       Spencer appealed,5 and the court of appeals affirmed
    the circuit court's denial of Spencer's postconviction motion on
    Sixth Amendment grounds.              However, it reversed the circuit court
    on   Spencer's          ineffective        assistance         of     counsel     claim   and
    remanded the case for a Machner hearing.6                      Id., ¶¶19-20.
    II
    ¶64       The majority's first mistake is that it concludes the
    communications          between      the   circuit      court      and   the    ill   juror,
    taking place immediately before jury deliberations and resulting
    in   the    juror's         dismissal      for       cause,    did    not    constitute    a
    critical stage of the proceedings at which the right to counsel
    attached.        See majority op., ¶4.               "A critical stage is any point
    in the criminal proceedings when a person may need counsel's
    assistance to assure a meaningful defense.                            The assistance of
    counsel         when    a    court    communicates            with    the      jury   during
    favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his
    defence.
    Article I, Section 7 of the Wisconsin Constitution also
    provides for the right to counsel.
    5Spencer also argued at the court of appeals and at this
    court that the dismissal of the juror was an erroneous exercise
    of discretion and violated his due process and equal protection
    rights.    The court of appeals determined that Spencer had
    forfeited those claims.     I need not reach these claims or
    address whether they were forfeited because, as noted, I would
    reverse on the basis of the Sixth Amendment violation.
    6   State v. Machner, 
    92 Wis. 2d 797
    , 
    285 N.W.2d 905
     (Ct. App.
    1979).
    5
    No.   2018AP942-CR.awb
    deliberations may be necessary to a meaningful defense."                             State
    v. Anderson, 
    2006 WI 77
    , ¶68, 
    291 Wis. 2d 673
    , 
    717 N.W.2d 74
    ,
    overruled on other grounds by State v. Alexander, 
    2013 WI 70
    ,
    
    349 Wis. 2d 327
    , 
    833 N.W.2d 126
    .7
    ¶65    Although       not   precisely       defined,        a    critical     stage
    generally includes proceedings that determine the composition of
    the jury.         See State v. Harris, 
    229 Wis. 2d 832
    , 839, 
    601 N.W.2d 682
        (Ct.       App.    1999);   State     v.    Spencer,        No.    2018AP942-CR,
    unpublished slip op., ¶50 (Wis. Ct. App. Mar. 9, 2021) (White,
    J., concurring in part and dissenting in part).                                Examples of
    "critical stages" are jury selection (including voir dire) and
    communications between the circuit court and the jury during
    deliberations.            See, e.g., Harris, 229 Wis. 2d at 839; Gomez v.
    United States, 
    490 U.S. 858
    , 873 (1989); Anderson, 
    291 Wis. 2d 673
    ,       ¶69.      As    particularly     relevant        here,      "An     in-chambers
    conference         that    deals   with    the    ability     of       sworn    jurors   to
    continue      to    serve     on   the    jury    is   an    exceedingly         important
    occurrence in a criminal trial . . . "                      State v. Alexander, 
    349 Wis. 2d 327
    , ¶49 (Crooks, J., concurring).
    ¶66    The majority erroneously separates the off-the-record
    communications from their ultimate outcome, i.e. the dismissal
    of the juror.            By considering only "the substance and the timing
    State v. Alexander overruled State v. Anderson to the
    7
    extent that a defendant does not have a right to be present
    during out of court communications between the judge and the
    jury. State v. Alexander, 
    2013 WI 70
    , ¶¶28-29, 
    349 Wis. 2d 327
    ,
    
    833 N.W.2d 126
    .      It remains true that "[a]ll that the
    Constitution requires at such a conference is the presence of
    defense counsel." Id., ¶29.
    6
    No.    2018AP942-CR.awb
    of the meeting," the majority concludes that "the meeting did
    not constitute a critical stage at which the presence of counsel
    was required."        Majority op., ¶24.             This analysis evaluates the
    communications in a vacuum and as a result, minimizes the right
    at issue.     See id., ¶33.
    ¶67   To explain, the majority conclusively determines that
    because the communications were about the health of the juror,
    Spencer did not require aid in coping with legal problems.                             Id.
    However, this takes too narrow of a view of the "legal problem"
    with     which    Spencer      required        aid.         Properly     framed,      the
    communications between the court and the ill juror implicated
    the juror's ability to serve on the jury and participate in
    deliberations, a consequential event during which Spencer could
    have benefited from the aid of counsel.                      See State v. Carter,
    
    2010 WI App 37
    , ¶18, 
    324 Wis. 2d 208
    , 
    781 N.W.2d 527
    ; see also
    United States v. Ash, 
    413 U.S. 300
    , 313 (1973).
    ¶68   Here,     the   ill   juror       sat    through    the    entire       trial
    except for the closing arguments.                Even though deliberations had
    not yet begun, they were soon to commence.                      I agree with court
    of     appeals    Judge      Maxine   White's         apt    description        of    the
    situation:        "The meeting with Juror No. 2 was not innocuous
    communication or a de minimis interaction; it was not a foregone
    conclusion that Juror No. 2 would be removed from the jury."
    Spencer, No. 2018AP942-CR, at ¶51 (White, J., concurring in part
    and dissenting in part).
    ¶69   Spencer could have stood to benefit from his counsel's
    assistance       in   this   situation.         At    the    very      least,   defense
    7
    No.    2018AP942-CR.awb
    counsel      could     have    been     apprised          of   the     juror's     condition
    firsthand and more thoroughly investigated all options.                                    For
    example, this would have allowed defense counsel to be in a
    better position to assess the import of this particular juror
    and whether a longer break would result in the juror's ability
    to continue serving.
    ¶70     The majority questions the "utility" and "propriety"
    of    an    "adversarial        approach       to    a      juror's      health      status."
    Majority      op.,     ¶35.       Once     again,         this       distracts     from    the
    substantive       legal       problem    with       which        Spencer      required     the
    assistance of counsel:               the dismissal of a juror for cause who
    observed the trial through the close of evidence.
    ¶71     By separating the communications between the court and
    juror from the juror's dismissal and treating them as distinct
    events,     the   majority       paints    the       communications           as   a   benign
    interlude with no bearing on Spencer's rights.                           To the contrary,
    the   judge    and     juror    were     not       merely      discussing      the     juror's
    health.      They were discussing the juror's health to determine if
    the   juror    should     be    dismissed          from    finishing         the   trial   and
    participating in deliberations.
    ¶72     These    communications          between         the    circuit      court   and
    juror      resulting    in     the    juror's       dismissal         for    cause     were   a
    critical stage of trial at which the right to counsel attached.
    Such communications affected the makeup of the jury, and Spencer
    could have benefited from the aid of counsel being in the room,
    at the very least to build a record.                            Thus, the majority is
    wrong to conclude these communications were not a critical stage
    8
    No.    2018AP942-CR.awb
    and that Spencer was not entitled to his counsel's presence at
    the discussions between the circuit court and the juror.                            It
    brushes off the import of the communications and how they were
    inseparable from the decision to dismiss the juror for cause.
    III
    ¶73    Next, the majority stumbles again when it concludes
    that even if the communications were a critical stage, the error
    was harmless.       See majority op., ¶4.            The majority overlooks
    gaps in the record and ignores the State's burden of proof in
    making this determination.
    ¶74    Whether    to   apply     a    harmless       error   analysis      to    a
    deprivation   of     counsel    claim        such   as    this     has   met   with
    inconsistent treatment.        In some circumstances "[t]his court and
    the court of appeals have applied harmless error analysis to the
    denial of the Sixth Amendment right to counsel when the circuit
    court has had ex parte communications with the jury."                    Anderson,
    
    291 Wis. 2d 673
    , ¶76; see State v. Koller, 
    2001 WI App 253
    , ¶62,
    
    248 Wis. 2d 259
    , 
    635 N.W.2d 838
    .                Thus, assuming the harmless
    error   analysis8    applies    to   these      communications       between        the
    circuit court and juror, the error was certainly not harmless as
    the majority claims.
    8  Although in other circumstances courts have determined
    that deprivation of the right to counsel at a critical stage
    constitutes a structural error requiring automatic reversal, see
    State v. Travis, 
    2013 WI 38
    , ¶61, 
    347 Wis. 2d 142
    , 
    832 N.W.2d 491
    , I do not decide whether structural error should apply to
    this Sixth Amendment violation.     Instead, I assume, without
    deciding, that harmless error applies in response to the
    majority's conclusion that the error was not harmless.       See
    majority op., ¶39.
    9
    No.    2018AP942-CR.awb
    ¶75   Where    the    majority      finds       a        record    sufficient    to
    determine   the     error    was      harmless,   I       find     a     record   utterly
    lacking.    See Anderson, 
    291 Wis. 2d 673
    , ¶81 ("In light of the
    absence of a sufficient record, an appellate court will have
    great difficulty concluding that the circuit court's erroneous
    procedure in communicating with the jury was harmless error.").
    As   detailed   below      and   as    referenced         in    Anderson,     this    case
    suffers from an insufficient record——an insufficiency which the
    majority overlooks and which precludes a determination that the
    State has met its burden of proof.
    ¶76   If an error is subject to harmless error analysis, the
    beneficiary of the error must prove beyond a reasonable doubt
    that the error complained of did not contribute to the verdict
    obtained.    State v. Hale, 
    2005 WI 7
    , ¶60, 
    277 Wis. 2d 593
    , 
    691 N.W.2d 637
    ; see also State v. Beamon, 
    2013 WI 47
    , ¶27, 
    347 Wis. 2d 559
    , 
    830 N.W.2d 681
    .               In other words, the State here must
    prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Spencer would still have
    been convicted absent the Sixth Amendment violation.
    ¶77   Simply put, the State has failed to meet its burden of
    proof to show beyond a reasonable doubt that the Sixth Amendment
    violation did not contribute to the verdict.                       Neglecting to even
    mention the State's burden of "beyond a reasonable doubt," the
    majority determines that "there is no reason on this record to
    believe counsel's presence would have had any impact on the
    juror's ability to proceed."            Majority op., ¶41.
    ¶78   Such a conclusion does not comport with our case law.
    In State v. Lehman, 
    108 Wis. 2d 291
    , 
    321 N.W.2d 212
     (1982), we
    10
    No.   2018AP942-CR.awb
    were very specific about the procedure the circuit court must
    follow before it dismisses a juror.                It includes making careful
    inquiry   regarding    the    substance       of   the   request    and   exerting
    efforts to avoid dismissing the juror:
    When a juror seeks to be excused, or a party seeks to
    have a juror discharged, whether before or after jury
    deliberations have begun, it is the circuit court's
    duty, prior to the exercise of its discretion to
    excuse the juror, to make careful inquiry into the
    substance of the request and to exert reasonable
    efforts to avoid discharging the juror. Such inquiry
    generally should be made out of the presence of the
    jurors and in the presence of all counsel and the
    defendant.    The juror potentially subject to the
    discharge should not be present during counsel's
    arguments on the discharge.      The circuit court's
    efforts depend on the circumstances of the case. The
    court must approach the issue with extreme caution to
    avoid a mistrial by either needlessly discharging the
    juror or by prejudicing in some manner the juror
    potentially subject to discharge or the remaining
    jurors.
    
    Id. at 300
    .
    ¶79    Lehman instructs how the circuit court should conduct
    an inquiry before dismissing a juror even before deliberations
    have begun.     The 45-minute gap in the record does not reflect
    the above inquiry, and the State has not otherwise proven the
    error was harmless.         It argues only that because the juror was
    sick, she would have been dismissed no matter what.
    ¶80    There      is     no   transcript        of    the      off-the-record
    communications which the State can reference in endeavoring to
    meet its burden.       And although "[t]he circuit court's efforts
    depend on the circumstances of the case," the State has not
    shown   from   the   gaps    in   this    record     that   the    circumstances
    11
    No.    2018AP942-CR.awb
    indicate     the     result       would    have        been    the         same     absent     the
    constitutional error.
    ¶81   It is clear that before the circuit court went back on
    the record, it had already made its determination that the juror
    would not continue serving on the panel.                       What is not clear from
    the    transcript      is    whether       the    juror        had     already        left     the
    courthouse before the court went back on the record——that is,
    before counsel even had an opportunity to make or renew any
    motions.       See Spencer, No. 2018AP942-CR, at ¶48                               (White, J.,
    concurring in part and dissenting in part).                                A review of the
    transcript shows the circuit court's concern for making a record
    of the communications and its decision to dismiss the juror but
    does not shed light on when the juror was actually allowed to
    leave.       This presents a significant gap in the record.                                    The
    possibility     that    the       juror    had     already       left        the     courthouse
    before the court went on the record certainly would further
    exacerbate the error.
    ¶82   Added     to    the    mix,     the       communications             between      the
    circuit      court     and        the     juror        were      neither            brief     nor
    inconsequential.            See     Koller,       
    248 Wis. 2d 259
    ,     ¶¶61,     67
    (assuming that the trial court erred when it responded through
    the bailiff without the assistance of counsel that two items the
    jury   asked    for    were    "not       available,"         but     finding        the     error
    harmless);     State    v.    Bjerkaas,          
    163 Wis. 2d 949
    ,        957-58,     
    472 N.W.2d 615
     (Ct. App. 1991) (noting the parties' agreement that
    it was constitutional error when the trial court wrote back "no"
    in response to a question posed by the jury without consulting
    12
    No.   2018AP942-CR.awb
    counsel, but finding no prejudice to the defendant).                                     Instead,
    it was an approximately 45-minute recess that determined the
    composition of the jury after most of the trial had concluded.
    A decision to dismiss a juror for cause can be consequential,
    implicating       significant         constitutional           rights.        See        State    v.
    Mendoza, 
    227 Wis. 2d 838
    , 849-50, 
    596 N.W.2d 736
     (1999).
    ¶83   Admittedly,             there    may    be        occasions       when       a     judge
    communicating          with    a    juror    outside      the     presence          of       counsel
    involve     "the       practical       realities         of     running       a    courtroom,"
    constituting harmless error.                  See majority op., ¶40.                     But this
    is not one of them.                Rather, the law provides a clear roadmap,
    requiring the State to prove the error was harmless beyond a
    reasonable doubt, which it has not done based on this deficient
    record.
    ¶84   Judge White's separate writing at the court of appeals
    is instructive.          She explains that the dearth of a record of the
    communications between the circuit court and juror precludes the
    conclusion     that         the     error   was    harmless.            See       Spencer,       No.
    2018AP942-CR,          at     ¶55     (White,      J.,    concurring          in     part        and
    dissenting in part).                I agree that "the scope and impact of the
    trial court's error is difficult to assess because of the lack
    of record."        
    Id.
           We cannot know, and the State has not proven,
    whether     the    outcome          would    have    been        the    same       absent        the
    constitutional violation.                  In sum, the State has failed to meet
    its   burden      of     proof      that    the    error       was     harmless      beyond        a
    reasonable doubt.
    ¶85   Accordingly, I respectfully dissent.
    13
    No.   2018AP942-CR.awb
    ¶86   I am authorized to state that Justices REBECCA FRANK
    DALLET and JILL J. KAROFSKY join this dissent.
    14
    No.   2018AP942-CR.rfd
    ¶87    REBECCA    FRANK     DALLET,       J.        (dissenting).          I    join
    Justice Ann Walsh Bradley's dissent in full.                        As she correctly
    concludes, the circumstances under which the only Black juror
    was     dismissed      for   cause       prior       to       deliberations       violated
    Spencer's      Sixth    Amendment        rights.           I    write    separately     to
    emphasize the importance of racially diverse juries to enhancing
    both a jury's performance in criminal trials and the public's
    perceptions of the fairness of the legal system.
    ¶88    Racial diversity on juries has both constitutional and
    moral    dimensions.         For    example,        a     categorical     bar     on   jury
    service by non-white citizens violates the Fourteenth Amendment.
    See Strauder v. West Virginia, 
    100 U.S. 303
    , 307-08 (1879),
    abrogated on other grounds by Taylor v. Louisiana, 
    419 U.S. 522
    ,
    536    n.19   (1975).        Relatedly,        the      way    potential    jurors      are
    summoned "must not systematically exclude distinctive groups in
    the community and thereby fail to be reasonably representative
    thereof."      Taylor, 
    419 U.S. at 538
    .                   Otherwise, that method of
    summoning potential jurors violates the defendant's right to a
    jury    of    his   peers.        See    
    id. at 528
        (explaining      that    "an
    essential     component      of    the   Sixth       Amendment      right    to    a   jury
    trial" is that the pool of potential jurors is a "representative
    1
    No.    2018AP942-CR.rfd
    cross section of the community").1                    The Constitution not only
    requires that people of all races be included in the pool of
    potential jurors, but it also prohibits practices designed to
    keep jurors of any particular race off the final panel.                               See,
    e.g.,     Batson     v.   Kentucky,     
    476 U.S. 79
    ,   96   (1986)      (racially
    motivated peremptory challenges to potential jurors violate the
    Fourteenth Amendment).             Those principles, which are rooted in
    the Constitution's text, flow from the Constitution's underlying
    moral value of equality before the law:                      "The very idea of a
    jury is a body . . . composed of the peers or equals of the
    person whose rights it is selected or summoned to determine;
    that is, of his neighbors, fellows, associates, persons having
    the   same   legal        status   in   society   as    that      which     he   holds."
    Strauder, 100 U.S. at 308.              In short, "[e]qual justice under law
    requires a criminal trial free of racial discrimination in the
    jury selection process."                Flowers v. Mississippi, 
    139 S. Ct. 2228
    , 2242 (2019).            These precedents underscore the importance
    of the circuit court's decision to dismiss the only Black juror
    on the panel after the close of evidence, and why the events
    leading    up   to    that    decision     were   a    "critical        stage"   of   the
    1In Wisconsin, potential jurors are summoned from lists of
    individuals with valid drivers' licenses or State IDs. This is
    problematic because, in Milwaukee County, for instance, only 47%
    of Black adults and 43% of Hispanic adults have a valid drivers'
    license, as compared to 85% of white adults statewide. See John
    Pawasarat, The Driver License Status of the Voting Age
    Population in Wisconsin, Emp. & Training Inst., Univ. of Wis.-
    Milwaukee (June 2005).    Thus, that system excludes more than
    half of the Black and Hispanic adult populations in Milwaukee
    County from ever being summoned for jury duty, let alone being
    placed on a final jury panel.
    2
    No.    2018AP942-CR.rfd
    trial.      See generally United States v. Cronic, 
    466 U.S. 648
    , 659
    (1984).
    ¶89    Setting aside the constitutional and moral dimensions
    of jury diversity, research suggests that juries perform better
    simply if they include non-white members.                 See, e.g., Samuel R.
    Sommers, On the Obstacles to Jury Diversity, 21 Jury Expert 1, 7
    (2009) ("[T]he nature and content of deliberations can actually
    vary by a jury's racial composition.").              Although there are many
    ways to assess jury performance, the research focuses generally
    on the length and breadth of jurors' discussions, the number of
    factual     errors   made    in    deliberations,       and   the    reduction     of
    jurors' individual biases, whether implicit or explicit.                           See
    generally id.; see also Samuel R. Sommers, On Racial Diversity
    and Group Decision-Making, 90 J. Personality & Soc. Psych. 597,
    606 (2006)        On each of these metrics, diverse juries perform
    better than all-white ones.            Specifically, juries that include
    even one non-white member tend to deliberate longer and discuss
    a wider range of evidence than all-white juries.                      See Sommers,
    Racial Diversity, supra, at 608.              White jurors on diverse juries
    are generally more accurate in their discussion of the facts of
    the case than if they were on an all-white jury; and they are
    less likely to pre-judge the defendant's guilt, including before
    deliberations begin.         See id. at 606 (adding that diverse juries
    are   less      likely      to    tolerate      prejudicial         statements      in
    deliberations     than   are      all-white    juries).       Similarly,        jurors
    demonstrate     "less    biased     reasoning    when    placed      in    a   diverse
    decisionmaking       group."          See     Michael     Selmi,          Statistical
    Inequality and Intentional (Not Implicit) Discrimination, 79 Law
    3
    No.   2018AP942-CR.rfd
    & Contemp. Probs. 199, 217 & n.92 (2016).                These findings mirror
    those in numerous other studies confirming that diversity has a
    positive effect on group performance in other settings.                         See
    generally Vivian Hunt, et al., Why Diversity Matters, McKinsey &
    Co.   (Jan.    2015)    (finding      that     corporations   with    gender    and
    ethnic diversity were significantly more likely to outperform
    their competitors); Lu Hong & Scott E. Page, Groups of Diverse
    Problem Solvers Can Outperform Groups of High-Ability Problem
    Solvers, 101 Proceedings of the Nat'l Academy of Scis. 16385
    (2004).
    ¶90     There    are    many    potential     explanations       for    these
    effects.      One is that people bring their implicit biases with
    them to the jury room.               See generally Justin D. Levinson &
    Danielle Young, Different Shades of Bias, 
    112 W. Va. L. Rev. 307
    , 326–31 (2010).          For instance, Levinson and Young found that
    mock jurors "who saw [a] photo of [a] perpetrator with a dark
    skin tone judged ambiguous evidence to be significantly more
    indicative of guilt than participants who saw [a] photo of a
    perpetrator with a lighter skin tone."                Id. at 337.        Likewise,
    people are more likely to remember "aggressive facts" about a
    Black character in a story than a white one.                        See generally
    Justin D. Levinson, Forgotten Racial Equality, 
    57 Duke L.J. 345
    ,
    398-99 (2007).        But an even more fundamental explanation may be
    that when jurors expect to have discussions with people who have
    different perspectives than they do, they tend to listen to the
    evidence      more     closely,       prepare      for    deliberations        more
    thoroughly,      and    guard        against     preconceived       notions    more
    4
    No.   2018AP942-CR.rfd
    carefully.2     See Sommers, On Racial Diversity, supra, at 601.
    Diverse    juries     might   also    outperform     all-white     juries     as   a
    result of each juror contributing his or her own life experience
    to deliberations.       As Justice Thurgood Marshall put it:
    When any large and identifiable segment of the
    community is excluded from jury service, the effect is
    to remove from the jury room qualities of human nature
    and varieties of human experience, the range of which
    is unknown and perhaps unknowable. It is not necessary
    to assume that the excluded group will consistently
    vote as a class in order to conclude, as we do, that
    its exclusion deprives the jury of a perspective on
    human events that may have unsuspected importance in
    any case that may be presented.
    Peters v. Kiff, 
    407 U.S. 493
    , 503-04 (1972).
    ¶91    Racial     diversity     on   juries     also   has    a   meaningful
    impact     on   the    public's      perceptions     of     the    fairness    and
    legitimacy of jury verdicts.                  One study found that ordinary
    citizens' perceptions about the fairness of a trial and the
    correctness of a verdict varied depending on whether the jury
    was all-white or racially diverse.                 See Leslie Ellis & Shari
    Seidman Diamond, Race, Diversity, and Jury Composition, 78 Chi.-
    Kent L. Rev. 1033, 1043-45 (2003).               When participants were told
    that a particular verdict was reached by a racially diverse
    2 This point and others were discussed more fully in a
    recent presentation by the National Center for State Courts
    (NCSC) entitled "Jury Diversity and its Role in Promoting
    Confidence in the Court System," which can be viewed here:
    https://cdm16501.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/juries/id
    /339.   The presentation was part of NCSC's ongoing "Blueprint
    for Racial Justice" Project, which "is examining the systemic
    changes needed to make equal justice under law an enduring
    reality for all."      See https://www.ncsc.org/information-and-
    resources/improving-access-to-justice/racial-justice/blueprint-
    for-racial-justice.
    5
    No.    2018AP942-CR.rfd
    jury, they perceived the trial to be equally fair regardless of
    whether it ended in a conviction or an acquittal.                                     Id. at 1049.
    The same was not true, however, when the jury had no racially
    diverse members:             "[W]hen the jury did not include minority
    members,      observers       viewed          the       trial     as      less      fair    when     it
    produces a guilty verdict than when it produced a not guilty
    verdict."        Id.         The       key    takeaway         from       this      study    is    that
    participants      thought          a    verdict         was    unfair       "only        when   [they]
    questioned      the    procedure             that    procured         it,     i.e.,      the    racial
    composition of the jury."                    Id.
    ¶92    I do not mean to suggest that discharging the only
    juror    of    color    is    always          erroneous,          or      that      doing    so    here
    prejudiced Spencer.            After all, "[d]efendants are not entitled
    to a jury of any particular composition."                                 Taylor, 
    419 U.S. at 538
    .     Instead, I write to emphasize the importance of racially
    diverse       juries    to     both          the        quality      of     verdicts        and    the
    perception      of     fairness         in    the       judicial       system.           Given     that
    "[t]he    purpose       of    the       jury        system      is     to   impress         upon    the
    criminal defendant and the community as a whole that a verdict
    of conviction or acquittal is given in accordance with the law
    by persons who are fair," Powers v. Ohio, 
    499 U.S. 400
    , 413
    (1991),       juries    themselves             must       be    perceived           as    fair,    and
    therefore      must     reflect         the     communities            from      which      they   are
    drawn.
    ¶93    I am authorized to state that Justice JILL J. KAROFSKY
    joins this dissent.
    6
    No.   2018AP942-CR.rfd
    1